Uberti SAA Clones, Hammer Cam Question

[Savvy Jack]

I have four Uberti SAA. All four have cam problems causing the timing to be early. I have two brand new ones that do the same thing. Rather than fight, pay shipping fees, FFL fees ect, can these cams be welded and reworked?

I have a mig welder that I use for aircraft welding 4130 chromoly steel. I forget the wire used but is the same that I use at work, welding up Maule Aircraft fuselages and parts. If the hammer has to be replaced anyway...I am willing to give it a try! Just wanted to see if anyone els has done this yet.

Thanks!

SJ

 

[Old Fuff]

Welding up the cam is relatively easy, but getting it correctly shaped afterwards isn't. In times past the cam (called a “bolt cycling cam”) was made out of rod stock, hardened, and then press fit into a hole in the hammer. Today Uburti (and probably others) investment cast the hammers and the cam is integral part of it. Then to make matters worse they don’t harden the hammer. So it doesn’t take long for the cam to get chewed up by the bolt.

You can try welding up the cam, and I wish you luck, but I suspect you may end up getting a new hammer. If so, before you install it; use Kasenit (available from www.brownells.com) to case harden the lower part of the hammer, and the cam will last a lot longer.

Or you can use the original method and make a cam out of drill rod, harden it, and press fit it into a hole you make in the hammer, but be aware that location is critical.

 

[Savvy Jack]

Thanks Fuff. Let me digest that and then reply with more questions...lol

 

[Savvy Jack]

Whats gonna happen is that I will order two replacement hammers. Then I will experiment with the old hammers!!!!

 

[rcmodel]

You also need to order this book:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/st... COLT SINGLE ACTION REVOLVERS - A SHOP MANUAL

More answers then you ever thought about asking, concerning the SAA.

IMO: In general, a worn or mis-fit bolt arm is more likely then the hammer cam to be causing your problems.

rcmodel

 

[mtngunr]

I second the poorly-fit bolt arm....most "copies" (and they're quite different, actually) have action jobs where parts are "polished" in the wrong places....VTI sells parts quite reasonably priced for all Italian clones....fitting a new bolt is quite easy, if you know what you're doing, so another plug for Jerry K's SAA shop manual, too.....FYI, the USFA hammers have integral cams, also, but later all-US-made guns are machined from stock, not one cast part in them.....

 

[Old Fuff]

In general, a worn or mis-fit bolt arm is more likely then the hammer cam to be causing your problems.

I've found that in cases where the bolt is harder (sometimes much harder) then the hammer, it tends to chew up the cam to the point where the tail slips off of the cam and the bolt is released too early. In the worst examples the bolt will be released before the trigger can get to the half-cock notch. Of course a mis-fitted bolt doesn't help.

From the manufacturer's point of view it's smart to make the cam part of the hammer, but it's far from best for gun owner. Unfortunately we live in the age of bean counters.

 

[mtngunr]

I've also seen Italian action jobs where the cam was "polished" into an almost shapeless blob.....both might be at fault, and I'd have to look at the parts to make a firm call.....if VTI is still in the biz, either part should be easy to replace, though.....

 

[Savvy Jack]

OK, here we go.

I ordered new Bolts from VTI and installed one today. The cam, on one revolver, arm comes with a beveled edge that slideds on the came. I polished only that to remove any sharp edges to allow a smother slide. The timing is perfect now. However, I also have a new hammer ordered from VTI. The timing on revolver #2 is awful. I will dig into that one when the new hammers get here.

I would like to know how to harden the new hammer cam. How hot do you get it, how do you cool it. "Case Color" hard, or a little hotter? Do you cool with water...oil...air...etc? lol, leave it alone?

Polishing the right area on the right parts is what I am learning. I don't mind making mistakes, sometimes that is how we learn....the hard way. But this is priceless and I enjoy it. Just my own guns though. I am not a gunsmith....but I did sleep at a Holiday Express last night!

 

[Savvy Jack]

Oh yeah, I have two more Uberti's, 5.5 44-40s, that the timing on both is waayyy off. I will experiment with the two hammers I am replacing from my 357 Uberti's. I want to try to weld the cam back up on each hammer. Heck, they are trash now anyway right?

 

[Old Fuff]

I would like to know how to harden the new hammer cam. How hot do you get it, how do you cool it. "Case Color" hard, or a little hotter? Do you cool with water...oil...air...etc? lol, leave it alone?

Go to www.brownells.com

Search for Kasenite (#479-001-100)

Heat and harden the lower part of the hammer where it is thinned below the hammer screw hole (cherry red). When you are done it will be harder then a banker's heart, but no colors. Quench in water. Instructions are on the can.

When you get your new hammers, fit them up, and then before using, harden them as described. The cams on them should last.

 

[Savvy Jack]

Perfecto...thanks Fuff

 

[Savvy Jack]

Got my hammers today from VTI. The entire hammer including the cam is all color case hardened. Does this mean I do not have to treat it with heat? I still have the Kasenite on the way to polish up the cam. I could call them I guess.

 

[Savvy Jack]

Just called VTI and was told these are Uberti parts and Uberti CCH them but it is very shallow but still better than what they use to be.

 

[Old Fuff]

Just called VTI and was told these are Uberti parts and Uberti CCH them but it is very shallow but still better than what they use to be.

My question is, "how much better?"

I have yet to come across a hammer (particularly a C&B hammer) that wasn't mostly color and very little hardning. When the parts come in I suggest that you find a place where it won't show, and test with a file. I belong to the old school that holds that the only way to be sure is to do it yourself.

 

[Savvy Jack]

Yeap, I doubt it. Parts are here, just waiting for the Kasenite.

 

[Savvy Jack]

Welded up one cam on one hammer. Filed it out and polished it after a kazilion trial runs. Timing is perfect. Now I will harden it later when my other stuff comes in. I'll let you know if it last.

The mig welder I used left a small hole in the center. I knew it would do that. However, I'd rather pay $14 for new Bolts than $50 for new hammers. My time is priceless. I forget the welding wire I used but it is what I use to weld up aircraft 4130 chromoly steel tubing.

 

[Old Fuff]

Your wire should be good, and besides I don't know for sure what alloy the Italians use to make the castings.

I should have mentioned that Brownells also have a heat-sink paste that you can use to cover the part of the hammer where you want to control the heat and keep it from creeping to unwanted areas. If you are interested, but can't find it I'll look up the stock number.

 

[BBBBill]

I have used Brownells heat sink paste as well as LACO brand heat control paste (in a tube, intended for soldering plumbing) purchased at a plumbing supplier. It is a little easier to use and a bit less expensive as I recall.

 

[Savvy Jack]

Thanks for the info. I'll take all the info you can dish out!

 

[Savvy Jack]

Got the Kasenit yesterday. I'll give it a shot in a day or so!

 

[Savvy Jack]

oops, I'll try again and get back with ya!

 

[Old Fuff]

What is OOPS???

 

[Savvy Jack]

I was lazy and made a boo boo! Thats ok, I have another hammer ;-)

 

[Savvy Jack]

Ok, try number two aint too bad! I hate being a rookie at something!!!!!!!!!!