Ultimate SHTF rifles thread

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Sir Galahad

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Back in the 1980s, "survivalists" were always talking about the best rifles to have in case of the big nuclear war everyone thought was coming. Except, they didn't have the internet.:D Ok, I'm sure the whole "SHTF" has been flogged to death here, but how about this scenario:

You wake up to discover that a nuclear exchange is impending. (For those of you in target areas, you'll probably be vaporized, but what the heck, play along.) You don't have time to run out and buy ammo or supplies. You figure on getting as far away from fallout as possible using backroads. This will entail hunting for food and possibly defending that food. Count on not gettng resupplied for ammo. But, possibly, you might run across abandoned stores. Based on what you have on hand, how would you choose 4 rifles and all their ammo that you can pack into a vehicle and carry? The two duties of the rifles are hunting and self-defense.

My Choices:

1.) Ruger M77 International .308---For hunting, it will drop most big game animals I will encounter. I have a scope for it, but it also has iron sights. I always keep a few hundred rounds for it on hand. Ammo can be found many places. Can be pressed into self-defense if necessary. Light and compact and stows easy.

2.) M-39 Finnish Mosin Nagant---What am I thinking?!?! Ah! It is what we have ON HAND! Accurate and of substantial caliber for hunting and defense (if need be) and I happen to have several hundred of rounds of ammo for it. I can also pull the bolts and trigger/mag assys from all my other Mosins and have plenty of repair parts for it. The liability is the uncommon caliber, but it would be a waste to leave it, all the ammo, and parts behind. Especially with ammo in sealed containers.

3.) AK---This is for self-defense. Ammo is pretty common all over these days and I have lots of mags for it as well as ammo. Reliable and will still take deer. Still fairly compact for stowing. Lasts under harsh conditions.

4.) CZ 452----This is for small game. Rifle is light and has superb iron sights. Solidly built, should last a lifetime. Very accurate. I had thought of my Remington 513-T, but it is a lot heavier and a larger package overall. The sights on the CZ are not as likely to get damaged as the Redfield peep on the 513.

Other thoughts:


1.) AR-15s and Mini-14s make a lot of sense from the standpoint that abandoned military ammo stock can be used. 2.) The .30-30 makes a lot of sense from the standpoint of the availablity of ammo.
3.) The M1A and M1 Garand make a lot of sense from the standpoint that they can defend and drop big game both very well.
4.) The AR-7 makes some sense in that it could be kept stowed in it's buttstock and the extra room could be used for another light carbine such as a Bushmaster.
5.) The M1 carbine makes sense as a defensive weapon since it's light and stows easy.

What are your choices and thoughts?
 
Does this scenario assume that one can have any rifle they wish, or only what is currently owned?

If the latter is true, I have little choice. My M1 Garand, my Enfield #4, M1 Carbine, and my H&R single-shot 12 gauge. I have no other long arms.

The Garand would be used for ranges of 15 to 500 meters (about the limit of my skill) on open terrain and light to medium density forest.

The Enfield would be used for exactly the same thing, but only if I ran out of ammo for the Garand. Otherwise it goes to a buddy or stays in the car.

The Carbine would be used for ranges of 15 to 200 meters in close quarters or heavy forest.

I currently have about 100 rounds of .30-06, 50 rounds each of .303 Brit and .30 Carbine, and 25 rounds each of #7 1/2 lead 12 ga and 00 3" buckshot.

The H&R would be used for hunting birds with the #7 1/2 shot, while the 00 buck would be saved for self-defense in the event that I'm completely out of ammo for the other three.

I would also have plenty of use for my Beretta and Glock (both in 9mm) if all else fails.

I also happen to have over four hundred rounds of .223 left over from my days as an AR-15 owner that doubtlessly could be traded for other calibers.

Otherwise, I would have to say that this damn holocaust caught me quite with my pants down. Maybe it's time to buy some more ammo...
 
I'd go with one of my number4s, and my 20 gauge single shot. the number4 weighs 8.5 or so pounds, the single shot weighs about 5.


I could add the chipmonk to that, it weighs 3 or so pounds.


i'd be carrying my 1911, as well.


that's 21 pounds of just guns.
 
I'm sorry, I should have said, yes, limited to firearms you have on hand. Though you can certainly mention afterwards firearms you think are a good idea. Kind of does make you think about how much ammo is enough, doesn't it? I've always felt nervous with less than a hundred rounds for each caliber. Kind of like being on I-40 between Barstow and Needles in July and seeing the gas gage getting close to empty.
 
This is my all-time favorite thread topic. Just seems to bring out the creative best in people. Really, it never gets boring to me.

I would get a BLR in .223 - light, rapid fire, accurate, and no concerns about jamming or reliability (as w/ a semi), plus ammo is light (very important) and readily available.

Pump action 12-gauge shotgun w/ an assortment of shot, slugs, sabot slugs, etc. Your most versatile weapon in my opinion.

The fact that these are not military weapons may play in your favor if the government decides to clamp down under "emergency measures".

Then you could add any good scoped bolt gun in .308 for bigger game, and a AK/AR for when really serious gunplay is needed, but I bet you could get away with the first two.

The tough question is: what if you were limited to ONE rifle and you had to carry everything and live without commercial resources for a long period of time?
 
Uh...do my company's weapons count? :) If so, I'll take my personally owned G1 and 1917, my M4, and one of our Mossbergs.

For personal weapons alone, I'd take my Single-Six (yes, I know it's not a rifle), my Mossberg 500, my G1, and my M1 Carbine. That gives me capability out to 300 meters or more, while using 3 common cartridges.
 
A .22, a .223. a 30-06 and a 12 ga. pretty much covers all uses needed for long arms in the lower 48.
 
Yep. You could even pare that down to .22 LR, .308 and 12 ga.
 
I'd bring a pair of AKs, to arm another in my party or for backup/spare parts, along with several cases of ammo and a couple dozen mags. I only currently have one in 7.62x39 and one in 5.45, but for my imaginary situation I'd buy another 7.62 model...

3rd would be a .22lr, all I have that is in shape for duty is my 10/22, however I think a nice ruger bolt .22 would be better (77/22 is the model right??, the stainless one with the synthetic stock?) Whole crapload of bricks of ammo for whichever...

4th would be a longer range rifle, I have a mauser and a enfield to serve that role, I'd feel better with a .308 like a G3 or FAL with a scope setup, but I don't own either yet...


If I could only take one weapon it would be an AK. Very versatile IMO, serves good for defense, decent deer/varmit gun, mags/ammo cheap and plentiful, etc. A few potential looters and such might see it as a deterrent too.
 
God help me, but these threads always bring a smile to my face, too.

Okay, four long guns. This one is pretty easy:

1. 12-gauge pump shotgun. I don't actually own one, so I'm bending the rules a bit here. Note to self: Get 12-gauge pump shotgun. This may be the "if you could only have one" selection.

2. A .22 rifle. All I've got is a 10/22, so I won't bend the rules further. Just for ammo capacity alone (i.e., when every cubic foot counts) it's a "must have."

3. A scoped .30-06. My choices are Browning or Remington, and I don't much care which I'd grab. For when you care enough to send the best, especially at some distance.

4. An AR-15 or AK-47 variant. Again, I'd be happy with either. Right now I've got more AK ammo, so maybe I'd grab that.
 
Or, cheat a bit, and take an AR w/ both uppers.

For that matter, one could take an AR lower and uppers in .22LR, .223, and, say, .243 WSSM. This would enable using common ammo while taking deer-sized game out to 300 meters or so. Hell, one could even get a .50 BMG upper, for the crazed elephants running loose. The upside to this would be taking less space than traditional firearms. Downside, of course, would be that only one person could use the arm at a time, and if it somehow went caput...ah, well.

John
 
I think 4 rifles would be redundant if I was alone. Here is what I could bring along if TSHTF and I had to get out of dodge.

STG58 (FAL)
Maybe now would be the time to scope it.... *cough* anyhow, 600 rnds SA 7.62 FMJ, 400 rnds Indian surplus

Mossy 500
25 00BS, 20 magnum slugs, and 100 #8 shells.

Backup#1 (military type gun)
My stainless beretta 92fs approx. 500 rds FMJ and 100rds of hydrashocks (a .22lr conversion would be very handy right now...) With the complete spare parts kit I just got :)

or

Backup#2 (police type gun)
My G22. I only have 100 rds of .40 SW FMJ ready to go.... No JHPs. If I had another 2-3 hours I could cook up another 500rds on the press though.

I think I would do OK.:scrutiny:

EDIT:

I like those AR-7 rifles. Might buy one someday.

Note to self: Maybe I should lay in more shotgun supplies. 25 bs and 20 slugs wouldnt last all that long. :uhoh:

BTW this is all based upon the availability of a vehicle to transport my stuff. If I had to pack it on my back I'd only bring 3 loaded mags for the fal, a spare 200rd battlepack, 2 loaded mags for the pistol and another 100 rds for that as well. Thats about 20 lbs. I wouldnt part with the shotgun easily, but I would rather retain my ability to reach out and touch somebody. :D
 
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I'm not in a target area, but we were the only unimportant city in Independence Day the aliens bothered blowing up.

...rifles...heck....probably the SLB2000 that was supposed to show up today but didn't :banghead:....I trust my M1A about as far as I can throw it....
 
So far, in every major "panic" type incident 9/11 and after, the common response is to band together, not start popping each other in a panic.

I like that development. :)

That makes me think that running around with an AK in my hands would be just plain, well... unneighborly.

Seems to be a discreetly carried pistol while leaving town and a couple hunting irons out of the way would be just fine. Anything else... might as well give or trade it where it do the most good.

(like there's anybody in Idaho that doesn't already have a gun.. shyeahh... :D)


-K
 
Guess it depends where you live too. If I was in LA or any of the larger southern cities I'd head for the hills-literally!

9/11 and the people of NYC banding together was a big surprise for me too.....:cool:
 
Ok, limited to what I've got on hand.

1) AK-47 for self-defense. Currently, I have 10x30, 1x40, 1x75, 1x10, and 1x5 round mags. All of them are fully loaded at this time. I've also got 200 rounds on stripper clips in a chest harness (This ammo supply is normally for the SKS though.)

2) AR-7 for small game. Must buy ammo though, as I currently have less than 50 rounds. The 2 mags I have should be sufficient. If you don't have one of these rifles, get one. They're inexpensive, $150 - $200 NIB, and fun to shoot. They're also very compact and fairly quiet as well. The fact that they'll float, either assembled or disassembled, is another nice feature about them for this type of scenario.

3) M-44 for longer ranges / big game. Currently I have 75 rounds on stripper clips and 10 more loose. I actually have 80 on clips and 10 loose, but one clip and its' ammo are bring-backs from Afghanistan, so it would only be used as a last resort.

4) Mossberg 500 for birds / CQB. I have two to choose from, one with PG and side-folding stock, second with full stock. On hand, I have just over 90 rounds of ammo, mostly #6, with some 000Buck, some slugs, and a few tracers.

If I were able to throw in a fifth longgun, it would be the aforementioned SKS. Of course, since the SHTF, the standard stock would be lost and the folding stock would be put on. This would make a good back-up to the AK, and would also allow me to arm a compatriot. In addition to the stripper clips, I've got a 30 round and a 5 round mag loaded, ready to go.

Frank
 
M1 Carbine for the wife.

SiG 551 for me.

Beretta Urika 12 gauge, and ummmm, ohhhhh a Remington 700 Police in .308 with a free floated and fluted 18 inch barrel, stock mounted bi-pod, Leupold Vari X III optics.

And a Cabelas Red River flintlock in .50Cal, just to see if I could make my own flints, gunpowder (like Kirk did in Startrek in 15 minutes) and cast my own Minies from scavenged lead in the zombie stricken cities :D

Speaking of Baltimore........ :uhoh:
 
Well, I won't bite on the 4 rifles either, since this is about hunting and the ability to defend the food, I'd take (assuming I have a vehicle at my disposal and am limited to what I have currently in the armory)

* Scoped HK G3 7.62x51mm (or maybe the DSA STG58 once I get it this week and wring it out) -- Rationale: powerful and accurate enough to take most large game in North America, extremely viable as a primary defense weapon, highly reliable now that I've exercised the demons from it, lots of 7.62 in my personal stash, easy to get 308 by raiding sporting goods stores. 2 cases of Port 308, 5 mags

* Mossberg 500 Persuader, synthetic stock, 18-1/2" bbl, 12 ga -- Rationale: excellent close-in defense weapon with buckshot / slug, adequate to take birds / small game with birdshot. 100 rounds 7-1/2 birdshot, 200 rounds 0 buckshot, 50 rounds Fowler slug

* Mossberg 42(a) .22LR bolt action -- Rationale: perfect for small game and as a utilty rifle. In a pinch, its a specialty defense rifle. I've been shooting this rifle since I was 10, its amazingly accurate, ultimately reliable. 2 bricks of Stinger HP 22 LR

* Witness TAC II 45 ACP -- Rationale: .45 is what I want in a handgun for up close and personal work, I use this gun in 3 gun matches, so I'm comfortable with it. 250 rounds 230 gr JHP, 4 ten-round mags
 
I'm going to assume a single localized nuclear detonation since a full exchange between any of the superpowers would make the entire planet unlivable due to Nuclear Winter and the amount of radoactive dust released into the air. Even a single detonation in the continental U.S. would probably throw us into a stuation that would make the 1920s economy look like happy times.

I doubt I'd be traveling alone, so I'd take one of my Mosin-Nagant 91/59 carbines for a primary. I know what it can do, have it ready with soft points on the buttstock and have a bunch of bandoliers with ammo loaded on strippers. For a sidearm, I'd take my CZ-75 9mm with all my loaded 9mm mags and the spare .22lR Kadet slide along with a box of each ammo.

Companions could be equipped with a CZ40, Mossberg 500 12Ga, various .38 and .357 wheelguns, SAR1, a number of SKS carbines and other various semi-auto handguns. Rule of thumb would be one long gun and one pistol each.

I doubt that I'd take any heavy battle rifles like Garands, FALs, full size Mosin-Nagants or Enfields. Size, and rifle weight would make them more of a liability than benefit IMO.

If I was alone, I'd take just the 12ga. and the CZ-75.

You'd have to pack light on ammo though. You'd want to bring all the canned food and water you could scrounge.
 
Well it we get nuked in the next 4 year, i will be carrying a M-16 or M-4!!:neener:

If i was at the house i would take.................

SAR-1

Mini-14

Rem 870

10/22
 
Dear Sir Galahad,

Where do you come up with this stuff? I'm glad you did though, as it made me think about it....haven't done that for awhile....hmmmm

Following the guidelines you set and not making up my own set of rules, as others have done in this thread....here are my choices.

1. A .22LR, probably go with a bolt, but if my BL-22 lever was closer, I'd grab it. Plenty accurate enough for small game hunting and fast followup shots.

2. .223 Semi-Auto for defense and scout work.

3. TCR-83 singleshot, with both the .308 and .223 barrels for it. Good all around hunting rifle for both small and moderately large game. Not to mention, accurate at hell and could be pressed into duty for long range defense applications.

4. Win. '94 30-30.

All of these choices are in my safe and because of ammo availability, are what I would choose. Given the options you set forth, I'd be in my vehicle....so hauling the ammo would not be a problem. With what's currently on hand, I'd have 100 plus rounds of 30-30, 4, or 5 bricks of .22LR, 500 rds of .308 and about 3000 rds of .223. This should last awhile, given that I'm not assaulted continuously and resupply/raiding any store/ammo dump I find in the Lower 48, should yield at least some of one caliber, if not all. Of course I'd also have several sidearms and shotguns if given the choice, but that wasn't part of your scenario ;)

I gave this all some thought many years ago, hence the caliber options I've chosen. No matter the scenario, our Military uses .223 and .308...so they should be available in good quantities, no matter how we have to go about getting it......I assume that the good ol' "Midnight Ammo Supply" will be doing a great business in such a circumstance :D

Semper Fi, Sgt
 
What? Only four? Clearly, man, you don't grasp what TSHTF is all about:
Shooting people!

When the balloon goes up, the only proper response is to begin shooting. Shoot the blue helmets. Shoot the black helicopters. Shoot the commie infiltrators. Shoot any unfamiliar people. Shoot your neighbors (never fully trusted them anyway). Shoot any family members who don't follow orders in a prompt and dilligent fashion.

With that now firmly in the forefront of your mind, you should understand why I consider this to be the minimum necessary armament for TSHTF: Each person in your compound (you do have a compound, don't you?) will require
1 .30 NATO semiautomatic rifle w/ minimum 20 round capacity
1 5.56 NATO semiautomatic rifle w/ minimum 20 round capacity
1 12 gauge shotgun w/ mimimum 8 round capacity, autoloader preferred
1 .45 caliber semiautomatic pistol
1 .357 magnum revolver
1 .32 ACP pocket gun
1 taktikewl-type combat folding knife
1 big honking bowie knife (kukri is acceptable substitute but must meet big honking requirement)
1 Spetznaz shovel
1 Piano wire garrotte

Figure an absolute minimum of 10,000 rounds of ammo per man per day for the long guns and 5,000 rounds per man per day on the handguns. If these levels aren't at least being met, then you aren't shooting enough people. All personnel are to have all weapons on their persons at all times. When people need shot, they need shot NOW!

Hope this was helpful.
 
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