Ummm..Fal??
- Thread starter TWBryan
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I have had a FAL (L1A1) for half a year now. I have had an G-3 for ten years, at home for the Norwegian home guard. My opinion is that the FAL has worse accuracy, but is better to handle, better placement of safety-catch and easier recoil. The G-3 seems sturdier, but evidence is that the FAL has no problems in that area. If a SHTF situation should occur the G3 had been my choice though, but I know that rifle much better. To put a scope in a FAL you need a dustcover with picatinny rail or similar DSArms has som good ones:
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=620A&storeid=1&image=scpmnt.gif
I have one from b-square, but i am not satisfied with it.
with Bsquare dust cover
It all comes down to what you like! Try both, and make up your choice both are excellent firearms!
here is a match report on another board of my experience competing with FAL
http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21989
warthog
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=620A&storeid=1&image=scpmnt.gif
I have one from b-square, but i am not satisfied with it.
with Bsquare dust cover
It all comes down to what you like! Try both, and make up your choice both are excellent firearms!
here is a match report on another board of my experience competing with FAL
http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21989
warthog
Last edited:
Thin Black Line
Member
I had an Israeli heavy barrel FAL that would do hole in hole at 100 yds
with a scope and 1" with the open peep site. I shot various HKs that
could get no where near that even with a scope.
A lot of the FALs are well-used with barrels that have seen a lot of rounds.
Just look for a good one. You'll have to find a good dustcover scope
mount since they sometimes tend to shift and throw off your POI. But,
the open sites work just fine. The HK scope mounts are rock solid, but
you'll pay more for everything.
with a scope and 1" with the open peep site. I shot various HKs that
could get no where near that even with a scope.
A lot of the FALs are well-used with barrels that have seen a lot of rounds.
Just look for a good one. You'll have to find a good dustcover scope
mount since they sometimes tend to shift and throw off your POI. But,
the open sites work just fine. The HK scope mounts are rock solid, but
you'll pay more for everything.
my neighbor has several FALs i shot 2 of them last weekend and loved them.I couldnt believe how light the recoil was! his range is only 80 yds but i had no trouble at all chasing beer cans around. im getting one next week i liked them so much, and iv always been an m1a1 fan. 
berettashotgun
Member
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- May 8, 2005
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- 1,149
The rifle your friend has ILLEGALLY purchased for you ( a straw purchase is illegal ) might very well be "NEW" Imbel new rifles were available 2 years ago, and I still kick myself for getting the 7mm Ultramag.DSA rail dust covers are pretty good- but you get pretty much what you pay for- expect to spend $150 for a really good one, scopes ain't cheap either............
) might very well be "NEW" Imbel new rifles were available 2 years ago, and I still kick myself for getting the 7mm Ultramag.DSA rail dust covers are pretty good- but you get pretty much what you pay for- expect to spend $150 for a really good one, scopes ain't cheap either............
DMK
Member
It's only a straw purchase when someone buys a gun for another who can't legally buy one, such as a felon or someone under age. There's nothing illegal about buying a gun and selling it (or giving as a gift) to another who could legally buy one him/herself unless you are attempting to do it for profit("dealing").
It's a good idea not to have people buy guns for you, and a better idea not to publicize it if you do.
I'm a bit confused by your reference to a G3 in the first post...that's not an FAL, in fact, other than the chambering they share very little similarity.
Are you sure what he bought?
I'm a bit confused by your reference to a G3 in the first post...that's not an FAL, in fact, other than the chambering they share very little similarity.
Are you sure what he bought?
Wow, you guys need to do your researching about prices. An ARMS mount will run you less than a $100 and they are by far better than a DSA mount (which by the way does not return to zero and will mar the finish of your receiver).
Para mounts may run you up to $150 but anything with Para on it is expensive.
Stay away from B-square mounts for the FAL, you'd have better luck using duct tape.
FALs can and often do get MOA with good new barrels and good ammo.
MAke sure you know what you just bought before loading up on accessories and mags. Being in Ohio, it's possible that your friend picked up a Ohio Rapid Fire FAL for you. If so, it'll be metric. IF it's a Century built gun then you or your friend need to know if it is a FAL (metric) or L1A1 (inch). The easiest way to tell is to look at the rear of the reciever/front of stock. If it is cut straight then you have a metric FAL, if not it's Inch.
Inch and metric signify which measuring system was used when they built it. Few parts interchange. The gas system, charging handle, carry handle and bolt carrier are the exceptions that come to mind. Inch cut recievers can use inch or metric mags but metric recievers can only use metric mags. You can tell a Inch reciever by looking inside the mag well. If there is a line cut across the front of the mag well it is an Inch cut reciever. The mags are easier to tell apart - just look at the price tag! Seriously, the price difference is major $5-7 for metric and $12-15 for Inch when you can find them. The metric mags will have a punched dimple on the front. The Inch mags have a welded tab on the front. Don't bother with the 30rd. mags. They are rare ($45+) and were originally made for the BREN. 20rd. mags are the norm and will be all that you will want to carry.
ARMS mounts seem to be a little better made than B-Square mounts (both around $100). If you're wanting something a little less expensive ($50), Tapco makes a mount with a stripper clip guide that many like. Accuracy for a standard FAL is 1.5 - 2" @ 100yrds. Some precision built models will often do noticibly better as will those built on the new Steyr kits. Remember, these are battle rifles not paper punchers so don't expect to get .5" groups out of one. If accuracy is your thing, stick with a bolt action. That being said, the FAL is no slouch and will shoot better than many owners can use. It IS the equal to a box stock M1A/M14 and betters the CETME/G3 in accuracy.
I would recommend heading over to the FALFiles for additional help and research: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php?s=
Welcome to the FAL family! Just be warned FAL's ARE addictive. Consider yourself warned!!!!!
Take Care,
Mike
Inch and metric signify which measuring system was used when they built it. Few parts interchange. The gas system, charging handle, carry handle and bolt carrier are the exceptions that come to mind. Inch cut recievers can use inch or metric mags but metric recievers can only use metric mags. You can tell a Inch reciever by looking inside the mag well. If there is a line cut across the front of the mag well it is an Inch cut reciever. The mags are easier to tell apart - just look at the price tag!
Seriously, the price difference is major $5-7 for metric and $12-15 for Inch when you can find them. The metric mags will have a punched dimple on the front. The Inch mags have a welded tab on the front. Don't bother with the 30rd. mags. They are rare ($45+) and were originally made for the BREN. 20rd. mags are the norm and will be all that you will want to carry. ARMS mounts seem to be a little better made than B-Square mounts (both around $100). If you're wanting something a little less expensive ($50), Tapco makes a mount with a stripper clip guide that many like. Accuracy for a standard FAL is 1.5 - 2" @ 100yrds. Some precision built models will often do noticibly better as will those built on the new Steyr kits. Remember, these are battle rifles not paper punchers so don't expect to get .5" groups out of one. If accuracy is your thing, stick with a bolt action. That being said, the FAL is no slouch and will shoot better than many owners can use. It IS the equal to a box stock M1A/M14 and betters the CETME/G3 in accuracy.
I would recommend heading over to the FALFiles for additional help and research: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php?s=
Welcome to the FAL family! Just be warned FAL's ARE addictive. Consider yourself warned!!!!!
Take Care,
Mike
Father Knows Best
Member
I'm not so sure that it isn't criminal. I wonder if maybe a dealer or lawyer more familiar with firearms laws can answer the question for us. I know that in buying a firearm from a dealer, a person has to complete a BATFE form (4473, is it?). That form includes a question to the effect of "are you buying this firearm for another person?" In effect, you are required to certify that you aren't buying it for someone else, i.e., a "straw man" sale.
If your buddy fills out the form and doesn't say he's buying it for you, I assume he is violating some law or regulation. Exactly which one, and what the penalty is, I don't know.
Anyone here know and care to comment?
If your buddy fills out the form and doesn't say he's buying it for you, I assume he is violating some law or regulation. Exactly which one, and what the penalty is, I don't know.
Anyone here know and care to comment?
ny32182
Member
In that case, any time a father got a .22 plinker for his 10-15 y/o son, it would be a crime.
As far as the mounts go, I have compared the DSA vs. the Bsquare first hand, and the DSA is easily better. It is very, very solid. I didn't even know ARMS made one, but I can't find anything to complain about regarding my DSA. The DSA is about $70, btw, not $150.
As far as the mounts go, I have compared the DSA vs. the Bsquare first hand, and the DSA is easily better. It is very, very solid. I didn't even know ARMS made one, but I can't find anything to complain about regarding my DSA. The DSA is about $70, btw, not $150.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
The transaction is a "straw purchase" according to ATF.The crime that has been committed is knowingly making a false statement on a federal 4473 form.
A father that is a legal guardian can take title to the weapon and give it to the son as a "gift".
If you question this you can check out ATF's Learning Theater #4
Do a word search for "Learning Theater" from this page for questions about some frequently encountered scenarios.
ny32182
Member
So you can't give a firearm to someone other than a minor child as a gift?
VorpalSpork
Member
If you look at the notes on the back of the form 4473, it explains “actual buyer”. Basically, you can buy a gun for yourself, and you can buy a gun for someone else as a gift, but what you can't do is accept money from someone else in order to buy a gun for them. So if you want to buy your 15 year old son a .22 for plinking, you can't make him pay for it
Now how quickly someone decides to sell a gun to someone else after they purchase it for themselves is another matter entirely.
Now how quickly someone decides to sell a gun to someone else after they purchase it for themselves is another matter entirely.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of
the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the
true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. In the above
example, if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm with his own money to give to Mr.
Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could lawfully have completed Form
4473.
MTMilitiaman
Member
I don't know what all the hubub is about. Really all we have to do is consider it legally purchased by the first guy and then provately sold for $400 to the next guy 
There's nothing wrong with any of that. Problem solved.
Enjoy your rifle.
There's nothing wrong with any of that. Problem solved.
Enjoy your rifle.
Father Knows Best
Member
BATFE doesn't care what "we" consider it. If BATFE believes that the first guy bought it with the intent of reselling it to the second guy, or bought it "for" the second guy, then BATFE will prosecute both of them. If a jury believes what the BATFE believes, then both will spend the rest of their lives as convicted felons. If you think you can convince BATFE and the jury otherwise, be forewarned that this thread will be Exhibit A at the trial, blown up nice and large and highlighted so the jury will be sure to see all the incriminating statements.
I think this "straw purchase" thing is only applicable if you buy a gun with the intent of selling it to someone you know is legally incapable of purchasing it legally.
You are in fact then in violation of the law as you are providing a firearm to someone who is legally not eligible for legal ownership. If you buy a gun with the intent to sell it to someone who can legally own it then you should be okay.
The ATF can rule that you are a "straw purchaser" but it's not going to hold water as you can claim "I didn't like the gun and decided to get rid of it". It's one thing to charge you with something, it's an entirely different to get a jury to agree with you. That is why you don't see many "straw purchase" busts. It's like laws forbidding spitting on the sidewalk. It's unenforceable unless you do it right in front of a cop. And he's got wood for you. If that is the case, you deserve it.
You are in fact then in violation of the law as you are providing a firearm to someone who is legally not eligible for legal ownership. If you buy a gun with the intent to sell it to someone who can legally own it then you should be okay.
The ATF can rule that you are a "straw purchaser" but it's not going to hold water as you can claim "I didn't like the gun and decided to get rid of it". It's one thing to charge you with something, it's an entirely different to get a jury to agree with you. That is why you don't see many "straw purchase" busts. It's like laws forbidding spitting on the sidewalk. It's unenforceable unless you do it right in front of a cop. And he's got wood for you. If that is the case, you deserve it.
Father Knows Best
Member
Not true. As is pointed out above, it is illegal to make a false statement on the 4473, so even if the person you are buying for is not prohibited from owning the firearm, you still commit a crime by buying it for him/her.
Whether you "should" be o.k. or not is irrelevant. What matters is whether you "will" be o.k., i.e., whether you will be complying with the law. If you're buying for somebody else, you're not complying with the law, and you will NOT be o.k. if BATFE catches wind of it. I don't think they'll care much whether you think it "should" be o.k. or not.
You can claim whatever you want. If there is enough evidence to make BATFE think you're lying, you risk arrest, prosecution and possibly conviction. Even if you prevail at trial, it will be very costly and unpleasant. Do you really want to go through with that?
And remember again that the statements in this forum are public and are perfectly admissible in court. The gentleman's statements that his friend bought the gun "for" him become exhibit A in their trial for conspiracy to violate various federal laws governing the sales of firearms. If they try to claim that guy 1 bought it for himself and later changed his mind before selling it to guy 2, this thread reveals them as liars and criminals who are just trying to cover their tracks.
There are many ways that prosecutors prove intent, by the way, even without admissions of the sort contained in this thread. Prosecutors and juries aren't stupid. You can claim whatever you want, but they are perfectly entitled to believe you are lying. They do it all the time. If it looks to them like a straw purchase, you can and will be convicted no matter what story you concoct.
Bottom line -- don't do it. If you want a gun, buy it yourself. If your buddy wants a gun, let him buy it himself.
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