Unique Advice

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Judging by my avatar, you can probably assume I'm a big Unique guy... and I am. Except... there's always an exception... in 9mm. In my early years of reloading 9mm for my HiPower, I had issues with cratered primers and overpressure, so much so that I gave up on reloading 9mm altogether. I'm sure it had to do with bullet seating depth and poorly metered charges, but it freaked me out, enough so that I dumped all my 9mm components and only shot factory. Fast forward to today, and I'm back reloading 9mm for my Kahrs... and having better success. No, I still don't use Unique, but I have experimented with some of the newer powders... BE86 being one of them. In my case, with the short barrels of the Kahrs, I reached a point with BE86 where a higher charge weight did not produce additional velocity, and in fact, was dumping unburnt (or poorly burnt) powder on my shooting hand, but that is not to say you might have good success with a 5" barrel. I've pretty much abandoned BE86 in the 9mm, I have a few others I'm going to work with, mainly Sport Pistol and W244.
 
Charlie98 said:
9mm ... I still don't use Unique, but I have experimented with some of the newer powders... BE86 being one of them. In my case, with the short barrels of the Kahrs, I reached a point with BE86 where a higher charge weight did not produce additional velocity, and in fact, was dumping unburnt (or poorly burnt) powder on my shooting hand, but that is not to say you might have good success with a 5" barrel. I've pretty much abandoned BE86 in the 9mmI have a few others I'm going to work with, mainly Sport Pistol and W244.
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I consider BE-86 modern Unique that meters better.

For decades, I have used WSF to produce full power higher velocity loads and factory duplicate JHP loads using Gold Dot HP and Golden Saber JHP bullets but in recent years, BE-86 replaced WSF as BE-86 produced more accurate loads than my 9mm/40S&W reference loads.

Like you, I too am currently testing Sport Pistol and W244 along with other powders like N320/N340 (Thanks to Walkalong) and IMR, Shooters World/Lovex and Vectan/Nobel Sport powders.

BTW, so far, WST and BE-86 have produced smallest 9mm groups for me with IMR Target being the next contender powder - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-5#post-9655361

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sparkyv said:
Unique is a very good all-round powder, but it meters poorly.
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However, the low density (the "fluffiness") make it useful for charges in large internal volume cases like 38Spcl and 357M where extra "case fill" is sometimes desirable. Like others, I've moved on to BE-86 when I need that burn rate.
 
buck460XVR said:
it shoots well when measured by volume
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This is interesting; I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying. What I seem to be hearing is that the volume may be the same at different weight. Say like 5.6 to 5.7gr, or 5.7 to 5.8gr?

I actually have some dippers, but never thought to use them this way. This could lead to an experiment of measuring the weights of a dipper several times to see if there is a difference.
 
rfwobbly said:
Like others, I've moved on to BE-86
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I stopped in Cabela's after church and got the last pound of BE 86 that they had. They didn't even have in on the shelf nor did it have a place there. I asked the guy and told him I seen it on their website and that it said there was limited supply available. He check the back, and sure enough he found one and I got it. It's been awhile since I had to buy any powder, and it seemed like it was relatively cheap compared to what I used to pay. Anyway, I'll work up some loads this coming week.

I still like the idea of using Unique though. It shot well, it wasn't dirty at all at the charges I was using, and I didn't notice any pressure signs. Just want to be safe. I have several 9mm, and I just want whatever I run a lot of to work in all the barrels. A COL of 1.1 was working well, but it seems that might be pushing the envelope for the speed and power I'm looking for.
 
preacherJohn said:
This is interesting; I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying. What I seem to be hearing is that the volume may be the same at different weight. Say like 5.6 to 5.7gr, or 5.7 to 5.8gr?
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I remember reading an article several years ago, regarding a test done by the US Army around the 19-teens (?).

This was when the Army loaded its own practice ammo at each post. The test involved loading some reduced .30-06 practice ammo with Unique.

The cartridge was loaded one of 2 ways: by thrown measure (volumetric), and by weighing each individual charge.

IIRC, there were many hundreds of cartridges loaded by one method or the other, then fired for accuracy. The thrown charges (volumetric) were more accurate by a measurable amount.

I wish I could provide a link, or more details, but I read this many years ago.
 
rfwobbly said:
However, the low density (the "fluffiness") make it useful for charges in large internal volume cases like 38Spcl and 357M where extra "case fill" is sometimes desirable. Like others, I've moved on to BE-86 when I need that burn rate.
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I have found that BE86 is one of the least sensitive to case position (powder forward test) so case fill is not a real issue. But it does fill the case enough that a double charge would be obvious.
 
LiveLife said:
I have used WSF to produce full power higher velocity loads
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Funny you brought this up, I started to work up a full tilt load with WSF in the 9mm with the 124JHP as I have several pounds of it on the shelf, but I opted for Unique instead for some reason. I'd like to see some of your data with the WSF. I absolutely love the WST in my 45acp's. For mid range stuff with 230gr LSWC's it will dot i's with my 4.5 XDM.
 
[QUOTE=" A COL of 1.1 was working well, but it seems that might be pushing the envelope for the speed and power I'm looking for.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by that? I thought you were looking for 1200+fps?
 
LiveLife said:
I consider BE-86 modern Unique that meters better.

For decades, I have used WSF to produce full power higher velocity loads and factory duplicate JHP loads using Gold Dot HP and Golden Saber JHP bullets but in recent years, BE-86 replaced WSF as BE-86 produced more accurate loads than my 9mm/40S&W reference loads.

Like you, I too am currently testing Sport Pistol and W244 along with other powders like N320/N340 (Thanks to Walkalong) and IMR, Shooters World/Lovex and Vectan/Nobel Sport powders.

BTW, so far, WST and BE-86 have produced smallest 9mm groups for me with IMR Target being the next contender powder
Click to expand...

I don't really consider BE86 a modern Unique... not any longer. That is not to say it isn't a good powder, and there is no denying that it meters and flows better. It's burn range puts it near Unique, but at least the little I've worked with it, I don't think it has the burn versatility that Unique has. I also don't think BE86 will work for me... not with what I want it to do, I feel it's just a tad too slow. I love WST in 200grn .45ACP loads... but I think it might be a tad too fast in my application, that's why I'm hoping to split the two with either Sport Pistol or W244, and I might give WSF a try if those don't work out.
 
preacherJohn said:
I've seen a lot of wisdom with BE 86, and I've thought about buying some (if available tomorrow @ Cabelas's) tomorrow when I roll into town. It's a 65 mi drive. I need to use this Unique up sooner or later. Loading with it is slow because it keeps metering one way or the other and it's hard to zero in at a constant with loads reaching higher pressures. So far all I've charged are singles with an RCBS powder drop in a loading block. I'm not sure I want to try it on the LNL. Does the BE 86 meter pretty constant? I use the Hornady Lock N Load unless I'm working loads up.
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One of the things with Unique is, probably one of the safest powders I have used with 9mm. Impossible to double fill, almost impossible to get too much in a 9mm case.

Light loads are dirty with Unique, heavy loads somewhat cleaner.

BE 86 meters better, MUCH cleaner...as accurate as Unique can be, the most accurate 9mm I've loaded was with BE 86.

Russellc
 
preacherJohn said:
This is interesting; I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying. What I seem to be hearing is that the volume may be the same at different weight. Say like 5.6 to 5.7gr, or 5.7 to 5.8gr?

I actually have some dippers, but never thought to use them this way. This could lead to an experiment of measuring the weights of a dipper several times to see if there is a difference.
Click to expand...

A powder measure/thrower is nuttin' more than a mechanized dipper. It works the same way as a dipper and a card. So, the results you have from hand dippers is going to be similar to the results you get from your mechanized dipper, aka, powder measure.

As I said in my previous post, Unique shoots well when measured by volume. I have done tests of ammo, where I used my powder measure to throw charges of Unique that averaged the desired weight, against weighed each and every charge. Differences between the two was moot. Started out my reloading career half a century ago with an old "whack a mole" Lee Loader. Never had a scale, nor did I ever need one. Ammo produced was good enough for the intended purpose. While competition shooters may need to trickle every granule of powder and keep charge weights within a 100th of a grain, for most of us, even Unique loads that vary +/- .1 grain, are more accurate than we are, and won't blow up your gun. I've found that to get the most consistent drops by weight from Unique, that I have to use consistent movement when throwing charges. I use what is called the "double tap" method where I move the handle or the powder measure down with a slight tap when it bottoms out, and then raise it back up with a slight tap at TDC.
 
preacherJohn said:
My cases are pretty clean @ 5.7gr. I've seen much dirtier with other powders.
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Reread....lower power loads are dirtier.... Unique, compared to BE86 is not exactly clean. After 200-300 rounds, 5 grains makes my hands fairly dirty.

First time use of BE86 was amazing when cleaning time came....almost appeared unfired in comparison to Unique. Don't get me wrong, Unique is one of my go to powders for 9mm and .45 ACP.

Russellc
 
RussellC said:
One of the things with Unique is, probably one of the safest powders I have used with 9mm. Impossible to double fill, almost impossible to get too much in a 9mm case.

Light loads are dirty with Unique, heavy loads somewhat cleaner.
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I agree. I don't load 9mm yet, but I load 45 acp with Unique at about 6.3 gr. A double charge would be overflowing and impossible to miss.

Also agree on the cleanliness. When I shoot mostly near max loads it burns clean.
 
All and all, it's a great powder. Have a partial 8 pounder and a spare 8 pounder in reserve.
Very safe powder to use, but flakes meter more difficult than HP 38 or Tite Group.

Still, on of my favs for 9mm or 45 ACP.

Russellc
 
I use 4.5 gr of Unique under a 158 gr Penn TCBB,in a Starline 357 case for my M73 and Vaquero. A joy to shoot for ranch pest work and target practice. Low recoil and accurate. Thinking I might up the load a few 10ths next time I reload for a tryout.
 
When I loaded with Unique I always just loaded midrange charges that way I could tolerate a + or - .1-.2gr swing.
Unique shot well for me I just didn't care for how it metered. If you like Unique you will probably like BE86 which is cleaner and meters better.
 
I've always liked unique for 9mm plinking/range fodder loads typically using 5.0gr of unique and several different 120gr to 130gr bullets that I cast.

Unique is 1 of those powders that doesn't spike pressure wise with minor changes in oal's. A graph of the lee 120gr tc bullet which has a .555" OAL.
iVohJkW.png
 
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