Unpatriotic and defenseless...

[sm]

Anybody else here besides me consider the lack of ownership of firearms to be quite un-American and therefore lacking love for your country that provides for the freedom that so many would kill for?

No.

Others have made excellent posts addressing this question and others.

Allow me to share some other perspectives.

1. The abusive male of the household sells all the guns his wife/kids have for dope.
This does not mean the wife, girlfriend, fiance' , elderly folks, or kids that were robbed are not Patriotric.

2. Natural Disasters such as Fire, Hurricane, Flood, or Tornadoes destroys, removes all firearms from a household.
This does not make the household un-Patriotic.

3. Military.
Personal Ownership of firearms are not allowed in many areas.
Submarine, Ships, Barracks, and other areas.

I do not believe our Armed Forces are Un-Patriotic for not having personal firearms in these areas.

 

[cold dead hands]

byron...I have copy in front of me and have it many times.

As for the rest of it...the responses have mostly been in disagreement with me and this fine as I really think quite differently than my fellow man.

I do not advocate forcing anyone to do anything because that is not in the spirit of independence or liberty, and I cherish liberty in a major way.

I am not super patriot, but I am bothered by the fact that people confuse noble lines of work with patriotism.

This country got two big wake up calls in the form of 9/11 and Katrina, yet people seem to have drifted off to sleep again. The so called leaders are not doing their jobs and the people letting them do so with an apathy I didn't think was possible.

I do not care if anyone disagrees with me in terms of calling treason something that isn't defined by the Constitution. Treason to your country is more than acts of war in a traditional sense. Letting the foudations of your country and it's values get eroded away is by definition a traitorous act.

Just to get it out of the way, no, I did not serve in the military because when I was graduating from high school the Gulf War was on and I felt that we had no buisness being there and I refused to enlist and fight in what I considered a bad move on our country's part. Even if had wanted to enlist after the war I couldn't due to a hip injury that will pain me for the rest of my life.

There are those who favor compulsory military service for both genders and I strongly disagree with that.

Anyway, this is all just internet blah blah. For those who wish to not own guns, so be it... I just don't think as highly of them as those who do. Isn't America great? We get to disagree and no one has to die for their opinions and it wasn't the unarmed who made that possible.

 

[Justin]

Sooooo...people who don't carry are committing an act of treason, as defined by you, and not, say, the law of the US as enshrined in the Constitution.

But it's all cool because you don't think they should be prosecuted for committing an act of treason?


In that particular spirit, I would like everyone to know that people who don't like strawberry ice cream are a bunch of America-hating treasonous cretins!

Yeah! Take that!

 

[JerryM]

{Just to get it out of the way, no, I did not serve in the military because when I was graduating from high school the Gulf War was on and I felt that we had no buisness being there and I refused to enlist and fight in what I considered a bad move on our country's part.}

I suspect that if the enemy were on our shores you and some others would have the same attitude, and go to Canada or somewhere that they did not have to fight. Every move that was about war would be "considered a bad move."

I have nothing but contempt for those who think that they are too good or too smart or just too valuable to fight and maybe die.

"A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." excerpt from John Stuart Mill.

Jerry

 

[sm]

I was not in the Military either, they brought the troops home from Vietnam the year I graduated from HS.
My draft card was 1-H.

I did not enter the Military, upon HS graduation. I continued assisting my mom n raising 4 kids, I was the eldest sib.

You see, before my state ever had pieces of paper saying folks could carry a firearm, folks did.
See I owned MY first gun the day I was brought home from the hospital, as my Maternal Grandma put MY pistol she bought for me in my dresser drawer crib when I was brought home from being born.

I used that gun to stop an immediate threat to me, the 3 younger sibs , when riots broke out in 1968. I was 13.

At that moment, the last thing on my mind, was being Patriotic. I was in fear of my life, and 3 siblings.

Later in life, I would have other experiences, and I assure you, I did not was not thinking of being Patriotic when someone shot out the driver's side back door glass while I was in the drivers seat.
I was not thinking about being Patriotic when the fellow pointed a gun at me and pulled the trigger.

There is a hell of a lot more to Responsible Firearm Ownership than guns.
There is a hell of a lot more to the COTUS than Patriotism as well.

Now I do not know if you posted out of being sincere, posted as a troll, posted to learn something.

I do know for me, I need nobody to question how I feel, what I do, or what I believe in.

COTUS says I can!

 

[Byron Quick]

Letting the foudations of your country and it's values get eroded away is by definition a traitorous act.

Not in the US where the one legitmate defintion of treason is contained in the Constitution.

Perhaps while reading the copy of the Constitution you purportedly have in front of you, a copy of a Webster's dictionary would be helpful.

Hint: there are good reasons why the Founders so sharply delineated treason in the Constitution. Learning those reasons will be painful though. It will require studying history.

 

[hso]

CDF,

When you ask a group of people that are as commited to the 2nd Ammendement as the folks on THR are if they agree with your opinion and they almost universally disagree with you it's time for sober reflection on those opinions. Not to fit in with "the herd", but to benefit from that experince.

I hope someone can do something for that hip some day soon.

Good luck.

 

[Big Calhoun]

Unpatriotic...no. Defenseless...depends.

My mother absolutely detest firearms. Mind you, she grew up in the deep south with a houseful of them, but she cannot even look at one, literally. She also hasn't missed an election since she's been eligble to vote, works for the state she lives in, and has been thinking about running for Congress. She's a world traveller, but New Jersey is her home and she's a proud American. With 3 professionally trained pitbulls as 'pets', I wouldn't say she's totally defenseless either.

Is the glass half-empty, half-full, or is there just a glass with some water in it?

 

[cold dead hands]

Jerry... If the hordes are at my county's doorstep I am going to fight. To suggest I would be coward and run to another country is low. Had I been of age to fight in WWII I would have. Being against a war is not wrong.

I have the same rights when it comes to opinions and I did not believe in our being in Kuwait. I sorry that you are offended that I feel the same as George Washington in regards to international dealings. Basically he said we need to mind our own buisness unless we are directly threatened.

Byron... justin... dictionary, check, history books, check, opinions no one likes, check.

Webster's defines treason as a betrayal of trust and confidence. I have zero confidence in those who not act as part of our "militia". By that I mean all citizens are supposed to be the militia, not just a few. I am certain that you agree that no confidence is not a punishable act, but a person who commits treason is a traitor.

I did not suggest that all carry guns (though I have no problem with that because the good will eventually destroy the bad) but I question why one would not even own basic rifle for defense in times of war and other emergency.

Patriotism is not enough. Prepare for the worst and pray for the best. This includes owning a firearm.

A bunch of people who come to forum believe an armed society is a polite society. This logic includes the fact if everyone is armed the common defense of all is assured.
If our would be leaders knew that people were armed then maybe they would do better job out of fear that their ruining lives of anyone might be met with equal reprisal or even worse.


I do not care if anyone agrees with me or not. It was suggested that I rexamine my beliefs. I do that all the time and I have come to the conclusion that just because everyone says you are nuts or wrong it doesn't mean that you are.

 

[pax]

I do that all the time and I have come to the conclusion that just because everyone says you are nuts or wrong it doesn't mean that you are.

Nor does it mean you are right.

pax

They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- Carl Sagan

 

[Brian Williams]

This country got two big wake up calls in the form of 9/11 and Katrina, yet people seem to have drifted off to sleep again. The so called leaders are not doing their jobs and the people letting them do so with an apathy I didn't think was possible.

They were not wake up calls, and if they were most folks have already hit the snooze button.

There is a huge difference between treasonous and unpatriotic.

Most of the USA is just plum lazy.

 

[springmom]

The problem here, CDH, is that you're seeing these people in an either/or context, as if gun ownership is an ontological fact. But it isn't. For many years I was not a gun owner. Now I am a gun owner. My patriotism didn't change a whit...but my views on gun ownership did, in large part because of intelligent and reasoned people's explanations/arguments for gun ownership.

When you bandy about labels such as traitor for those who do not own guns, you are assuming that this is an immutable fact of their existence. And had I met up with more people like YOU and less people like the others on this list back when I was thinking about all this for myself, it might have remained so for me.

Rather than looking down your nose at people who don't own guns, why don't you spend some time learning from people like SM and others here who devote much of their lives to empowering people into gun ownership, helping them find the right gun, etc. Nobody's going to want to learn from you as long as you have this supercilious notion that anybody who isn't doing what you're doing is a traitor to their country and their way of life, however.

Springmom

 

[Notch]

"One nice thing about Rights...one does not have to exercise them."


Use 'em or lose 'em..... its your choice.

 

[GEM]

Being 'nuts' is a social construct. There are various different behaviors with various causalities. However, whether they are viewed as 'nuts' depends on the context of your social group.

Blacks who protested apartheid and segregation were called nuts.
Russians who protested communism were called nuts.
Gays were once classified as mentally ill and that was changed by the psychiatric profession.
People with delusions were seen as prophets and not nuts.
If you were an Aztec and skinned people for a suit, you weren't nuts. What about today?

Thus, if most people think you are nuts, then you are.

 

[rnchick]

I CHOOSE to own guns. The cool thing about the 2nd ammendment in America is the CHOICE aspect. Frankly I would say that required gun ownership would be as bad as ownership being banned.

I feel the same way. RIGHTS guaranteed by the Constitution are not REQUIREMENTS. There is a difference.

I enjoy and excercise my RIGHT to own and carry a firearm, but for many years I didn't own firearms for various reasons. I'm glad that I have the legal ability to chose.

 

[RPCVYemen]

I do not care if anyone disagrees with me in terms of calling treason something that isn't defined by the Constitution. Treason to your country is more than acts of war in a traditional sense. Letting the foudations of your country and it's values get eroded away is by definition a traitorous act.

Here is what Article III, Section 3 actually says:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

If you want to expand the notion of treason to include "Letting the foudations of your country and it's values get eroded away is by definition a traitorous act.", what do you do about the only in the Constitution?

It appears to me that the only in that article says that treason consists of one or more of those three acts - and no other!.

Are you reading something something else into that clasue, or are you rejecting the Constitution?


Mike

 

[MrPeter]

I know many people who believe in their right to defend themselves, and believe that it sure would be dandy if the government issued everyone who turns 18 a rifle (like an SKS), etc, etc, and they don't own any firearms, and they don't write their congressperson.

I have an opinion on almost everything under the sun, and I believe that everyone has the right to be heard. Does it make me a traitor that I don't write to every newspaper, or become the spokesperson for every group I support? I think not. It's all about choice for me.

However, Bush's free speech zones, and Brady's anti-RKBA campaign are examples of traitorous acts. Those that stifle other's rights are illegal (they actually are, its not that they should be).

To sum it up:
If someone tells me I dont need a gun, I'll tell them I don't care what they think.
If someone trys take my gun, I'll give it to them one bullet at a time (or sometimes 9-12 at a time if I have buckshot on hand )

 

[Lonestar49]

Well said

Quote:The problem here, CDH, is that you're seeing these people in an either/or context, as if gun ownership is an ontological fact. But it isn't. For many years I was not a gun owner. Now I am a gun owner. My patriotism didn't change a whit...but my views on gun ownership did, in large part because of intelligent and reasoned people's explanations/arguments for gun ownership.

When you bandy about labels such as traitor for those who do not own guns, you are assuming that this is an immutable fact of their existence. And had I met up with more people like YOU and less people like the others on this list back when I was thinking about all this for myself, it might have remained so for me.

Rather than looking down your nose at people who don't own guns, why don't you spend some time learning from people like SM and others here who devote much of their lives to empowering people into gun ownership, helping them find the right gun, etc. Nobody's going to want to learn from you as long as you have this supercilious notion that anybody who isn't doing what you're doing is a traitor to their country and their way of life, however.

Springmom
------------------
...

SM,

It makes sense to me now SM, as rebuttal after rebuttal have been at, and toward, other men. Now you come along, and say it as-it-is, and low and behold, NO rebuttal..

Very kewl,


LS

 

[PrimaryB]

CDH I'm not going to try to quote all of your opinions but please bear with me.

You implied that the Japanese and Jews would have been better off if they were in possession of guns. Your kidding right? To imply that is ridiculous. It would have been the green light to shoot on sight.

You implied you didn't enlist during the gulf war because you disagreed with it but you said you would have served during WW2. What is the difference between Pearl Harbor and New York City and Kuwait? Shouldn't we also stand up for our allies or international interests? How about currently in Iraq? Your still of age. Oh ya, forgot about the hip. In this case SHOW SOME HUMILITY. Once again their are those who have served our country and do not own a personal firearm by their choice. My only opinion of them is Thank You for Your Service To This Beloved Country.

Quote "There are those who favor compulsory military service for both genders and I strongly disagree with that."

Another remark from an armchair quarterback who's interest is labeling others as traitors because they simply are exercising their right to CHOOSE NOT TO OWN. A right given to us by their sacrifice and those before them.

Once again show some humility. One thing I can promise is that will come with age. Just my opinion.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I don't think non-gun owners are all bad. Especially like a buddy of mine or Rush Limbaugh. They both believe wholeheartedly in the RKBA, but neither own guns. Those that do not own guns and are trying to take away my gun-owning rights ARE traitors, though. Worst of all are the elitists that say, "I can own a gun and carry it for my personal defense, but the common people cant!" These pieces of human refuse should be dealt with the most severely, IMO.

 

[JerryM]

PrimaryB,

Part of the problem is the "Bull Moose" syndrome.
I recall many years ago in a comic strip, maybe Lil Abner, there was a character named Bull Moose. He was rich, white haired, drove a looooog convertible, with pretty girls in it, and would say, "What's good for Bull Moose is good for everybody. (That may have been a play on the General Motors ad.)

Now if I carry, those who don't are unpatriotic. If I protest the war, those who do not are blind, and do not understand the Constitution.

We can always think or say that we would have done such and such in another time and another place, but this is not the right time or the right place so we cannot do it.
Or, "I would have fought when my country called a couple of generations ago, but now I won't because the cause is not just, no matter what my country needs. I am a great patriot who does not follow the leaders because they have bad motives, and I won't fight for their objectives. I show my patrotism by protesting."

What we have in reality is a fair number of relatively young people who are not yet dry behing their ears, and have never had to make a sacrifice to keep our nation free. In fact many are not willing to make a sacrifice whatever the cause, but just give lip service to their patriotism and courage.

I often think of the Hollywood crowd, who live in a fantasy world, and have never had to face the real world. Yet, because they have fans, they think they know about how the nation and the world should function. Most of their ideas are nonsense, but the liberals listen anyway.

Oh well, what is new?

Regards,
Jerry

 

[Mauserguy]

I believe that if people are unprepared for basic emergencies, they are making themselves a drag on society. This includes having basic disaster supplies as well as a firearm for self, and family, defense. This is not un-American, it is just un-neighborly.

It is not society's responsibility to protect you. If you choose to be unarmed, you choose to be a burden to others.
Mauserguy

 

[jeepmor]

Don't push your values on me, I won't push mine on you.

People have the right to choose, nuff said.

jeepmor

 

[ArfinGreebly]

* Sigh *

At the risk of repeating myself . . .

. . . allow me to repeat myself.

Heck, I feel left out.

No one even wants to argue with me.

Pooh.

 

[Plink]

I totally respect those who choose not to own guns. I don't respect those why try to tell me that I can't own them though. I have several pro gun friends who don't own one. They support our right, but they just don't share our interest or feel the need to own one. To each their own, as long as they respect the rights of others.