Update on fancy Uberti 1858 warranty repair

[Ephraim Kibbey]

I bought exactly one Glock. I'll never buy another one.

A gun should be made of metal!
My carry is a Firestorm .380.
At my CC class test, it put two magazines into one big hole and the instructor was impressed!

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

In reviewing the catalogs, I was reminded that the less expensive EMF ASM model was marked "DAKOTA!"

Note that these two models by ASM, the Hartford and the Dakota, became the Peacekeeper and the Longhorn when ASM sold the rights and tooling to American Western Arms.
Peacekeepers often go for over $1000 today!
Around 2000/2001, AWA used the ASM tooling (ASM was now out of business) to build their two versions in Italy and then shipped them unfinished to Florida for fine tuning and finishing.
Around 2003, Colt threatened suit because of the Peacekeeper name and the running horse on the Colt style plastic grips. AWA was also manufacturing a gallery style pump rifle called the Lightening and was having feed problems with lots of returns. AWA stopped making Peacekeepers around 2003 and intruded the Ultimate 1873 SSA which used Pietta parts and was assembled, tuned and finished in the US.

 

[Black cloud]

I have never had major problems with uberti or pietta out of the box, you just need to de but them and work them if you want something smooth acting. Your not going to buy a 400 dollar replica and have smooth action of that of a colt.

 

[hawg]

I have never had major problems with uberti or pietta out of the box, you just need to de but them and work them if you want something smooth acting. Your not going to buy a 400 dollar replica and have smooth action of that of a colt.

Exactly!

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

The gunsmith is right.

See an original for reference:

The bolt drag is clearly visible. It is inherent to the design. Remington (actually it was mr. Beals) originally designed these guns to mark the cylinder, because it is better if the bolt engages too early and marks the cylinder than too late - result is no lock-up. Only fine-tuned guns will not mark the cylinder which is not something viable for the mass production. Remington should have incorporated bolt leads to prevent this but they didn't.

To sum it up, these guns basically work the way gunsmith described it. The bolt must engage before cylinder is rotated fully otherwise if the bolt engages too late you get no lock-up whatsover and risk blowing up your gun.

The Remington New Model Army has no bolt lead machined before the bolt notch so this part of the cylinder will simply get hit.

Uberti's spring are on the weaker side compared to Pietta, you can try installing even weaker but that can potentially reduce reliability.
The biggest issue of Uberti cap-and-ball guns is that they are made of something that is basically pot metal of the steel world. So your cylinder will get beaten up over time and there will be indentations where bolt makes contact with the cylinder.

The gunsmith could not obviously fix the main issue of that gun which is poor steel so he returned it to you.

You must either live with these indentations that will be appearing but should not present any issues for the gun's operation for thousands, and thousands of round or:
1) Install weaker spring but mind that the bolt spring is also the trigger spring. Too weak spring will result in insecure lockup and unsafe operaton of the gun.
2) Have bolt leads machined on your cylinder.
3) Buy colt clone, they have bolt leads by design.

 

[Mark_Mark]

The gunsmith is right.

See an original for reference:
View attachment 1113274
The bolt drag is clearly visible. It is inherent to the design. Remington (actually it was mr. Beals) originally designed these guns to mark the cylinder, because it is better if the bolt engages too early and marks the cylinder than too late - result is no lock-up. Only fine-tuned guns will not mark the cylinder which is not something viable for the mass production. Remington should have incorporated bolt leads to prevent this but they didn't.

To sum it up, these guns basically work the way gunsmith described it. The bolt must engage before cylinder is rotated fully otherwise if the bolt engages too late you get no lock-up whatsover and risk blowing up your gun.

The Remington New Model Army has no bolt lead machined before the bolt notch so this part of the cylinder will simply get hit.

Uberti's spring are on the weaker side compared to Pietta, you can try installing even weaker but that can potentially reduce reliability.
The biggest issue of Uberti cap-and-ball guns is that they are made of something that is basically pot metal of the steel world. So your cylinder will get beaten up over time and there will be indentations where bolt makes contact with the cylinder.

The gunsmith could not obviously fix the main issue of that gun which is poor steel so he returned it to you.

You must either live with these indentations that will be appearing but should not present any issues for the gun's operation for thousands, and thousands of round or:
1) Install weaker spring but mind that the bolt spring is also the trigger spring. Too weak spring will result in insecure lockup and unsafe operaton of the gun.
2) Have bolt leads machined on your cylinder.
3) Buy colt clone, they have bolt leads by design.

NICE WRITE UP!!!

 

[45 Dragoon]

The gunsmith is right.

See an original for reference:
View attachment 1113274
The bolt drag is clearly visible. It is inherent to the design. Remington (actually it was mr. Beals) originally designed these guns to mark the cylinder, because it is better if the bolt engages too early and marks the cylinder than too late - result is no lock-up. Only fine-tuned guns will not mark the cylinder which is not something viable for the mass production. Remington should have incorporated bolt leads to prevent this but they didn't.

To sum it up, these guns basically work the way gunsmith described it. The bolt must engage before cylinder is rotated fully otherwise if the bolt engages too late you get no lock-up whatsover and risk blowing up your gun.

The Remington New Model Army has no bolt lead machined before the bolt notch so this part of the cylinder will simply get hit.

Uberti's spring are on the weaker side compared to Pietta, you can try installing even weaker but that can potentially reduce reliability.
The biggest issue of Uberti cap-and-ball guns is that they are made of something that is basically pot metal of the steel world. So your cylinder will get beaten up over time and there will be indentations where bolt makes contact with the cylinder.

The gunsmith could not obviously fix the main issue of that gun which is poor steel so he returned it to you.

You must either live with these indentations that will be appearing but should not present any issues for the gun's operation for thousands, and thousands of round or:
1) Install weaker spring but mind that the bolt spring is also the trigger spring. Too weak spring will result in insecure lockup and unsafe operaton of the gun.
2) Have bolt leads machined on your cylinder.
3) Buy colt clone, they have bolt leads by design.

The Remington action is timed the same way the Colt action is. It doesn't matter if there is an "approach" ( lead) present or not. In fact, if an approach was machined in place, the bolt would still drop where it's dropping presently. The left bolt arm needs to be adjusted or the bolt replaced. The problem is an easy one to fix . . . if that's the problem. It very well could be a hand spring cracked or bent. Cylinder throw-by is a symptom of that problem.
As far as the bolt spring pressure, you only need about 3-4 lbs. (Check your Ruger Blackhawk or ROA).

When timed correctly the Remington should have 3 audible clicks just as the Colt action.

Mike

 

[Mark_Mark]

The Remington action is timed the same way the Colt action is. It doesn't matter if there is an "approach" ( lead) present or not. In fact, if an approach was machined in place, the bolt would still drop where it's dropping presently. The left bolt arm needs to be adjusted or the bolt replaced. The problem is an easy one to fix . . . if that's the problem. It very well could be a hand spring cracked or bent. Cylinder throw-by is a symptom of that problem.
As far as the bolt spring pressure, you only need about 3-4 lbs. (Check your Ruger Blackhawk or ROA).

When timed correctly the Remington should have 3 audible clicks just as the Colt action.

Mike

man! Uberti SUCKS!

I don’t know what to think.

 

[woodnbow]

man! Uberti SUCKS!

I don’t know what to think.

Don’t believe everything you read..

“Pot metal”

 

[Mark_Mark]

Don’t believe everything you read..

“Pot metal”

some Pot Metal is very good!

 

[Rustmangler]

HEAVEY metal?

 

[hawg]

The bolt drag is clearly visible. It is inherent to the design.

Ummm, no it's not. True the bolt will mark the cylinder where it touches it but unless there's an underlying problem the only way the bolt will score the cylinder all the way around is from somebody that doesn't know how to operate a single action. If the bolt is touching the cylinder a bolt with from the notch then that's the only place that's scored.

 

[CraigC]

Yep, Uberti sucks. My first sixgun was a Uberti at 12yrs old and I've bought 33 more since. The most recent, four days ago. One of those other 33, I spent another $1000 on engraving, $500 on finish work and $1000 on ivory. Turrible guns.



Goofy enough to buy one factory engraved too. What a dummy!




I also bought my first Glock in 1992. Reliable guns, they go bang and do as intended. I'm grateful for the perspective but they don't keep me up at night.

 

[CraigC]

The bolt drag is clearly visible. It is inherent to the design. Remington (actually it was mr. Beals) originally designed these guns to mark the cylinder, because it is better if the bolt engages too early and marks the cylinder than too late - result is no lock-up. Only fine-tuned guns will not mark the cylinder which is not something viable for the mass production. Remington should have incorporated bolt leads to prevent this but they didn't.

That is patently false.

And there is no "pot metal of the steel world". Yes, the percussion guns have been made of softer steels to keep costs down. It's why they were $200 when cartridge guns were $400. They're as strong as they need to be, which is to say considerably stronger than the originals. The term "pot metal" has no place here.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Yep, Uberti sucks. My first sixgun was a Uberti at 12yrs old and I've bought 33 more since. The most recent, four days ago. One of those other 33, I spent another $1000 on engraving, $500 on finish work and $1000 on ivory. Turrible guns.

View attachment 1113435

Goofy enough to buy one factory engraved too. What a dummy!

View attachment 1113436


I also bought my first Glock in 1992. Reliable guns, they go bang and do as intended. I'm grateful for the perspective but they don't keep me up at night.

$1,000 engraving! WOOWEE

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Ummm, no it's not. True the bolt will mark the cylinder where it touches it but unless there's an underlying problem the only way the bolt will score the cylinder all the way around is from somebody that doesn't know how to operate a single action. If the bolt is touching the cylinder a bolt with from the notch then that's the only place that's scored.

I don't disagree that the scratch mark on the whole circumference is due to improper operation but it is irrelevant to my point.



If you look closely, you can see a triangle shaped mark that is directly caused by a bolt dropping early. My point was that it is unavoidable unless the gun is perfectly timed which is impractical for mass production. It is much safer to have the bolt engage early than late. It is obvious why.

The Remington action is timed the same way the Colt action is. It doesn't matter if there is an "approach" ( lead) present or not. In fact, if an approach was machined in place, the bolt would still drop where it's dropping presently. The left bolt arm needs to be adjusted or the bolt replaced. The problem is an easy one to fix . . . if that's the problem. It very well could be a hand spring cracked or bent. Cylinder throw-by is a symptom of that problem.
As far as the bolt spring pressure, you only need about 3-4 lbs. (Check your Ruger Blackhawk or ROA).

When timed correctly the Remington should have 3 audible clicks just as the Colt action.

Mike

Well, I agree with what you said but from my experience, the guns with the "approach" machined don't batter the cylinder anywhere close. Still I stick to my point that this problem is amplified by soft Uberti steel. None of my Piettas (that also happen to have stiffer springs) batter the cylinder anywhere near what Ubertis do.

Don’t believe everything you read..

“Pot metal”

I didn't read it anywhere. I've had it tested. Check my thread history. Uberti steel is crap.

That is patently false.

And there is no "pot metal of the steel world". Yes, the percussion guns have been made of softer steels to keep costs down. It's why they were $200 when cartridge guns were $400. They're as strong as they need to be, which is to say considerably stronger than the originals. The term "pot metal" has no place here.

Once again. I had this "steel" tested for hardness. Its hardness is beyond pathetic. Check my thread history.

Yep, Uberti sucks. My first sixgun was a Uberti at 12yrs old and I've bought 33 more since. The most recent, four days ago. One of those other 33, I spent another $1000 on engraving, $500 on finish work and $1000 on ivory. Turrible guns.

View attachment 1113435

Goofy enough to buy one factory engraved too. What a dummy!

View attachment 1113436


I also bought my first Glock in 1992. Reliable guns, they go bang and do as intended. I'm grateful for the perspective but they don't keep me up at night.

I never said that Ubertis suck. I only said that the steel Uberti uses for their blackpowder guns sucks. Well it does but for the most part it is adequate for the job. It will hold pressures just fine, it's just the details that you will notice, easily made scratches with screwdriver or knife, cylinder dents etc.

 

[CraigC]

I never said that Ubertis suck.

I didn't say you did.

 

[ShotgunDave]

Yep, Uberti sucks. My first sixgun was a Uberti at 12yrs old and I've bought 33 more since. The most recent, four days ago. One of those other 33, I spent another $1000 on engraving, $500 on finish work and $1000 on ivory. Turrible guns.

View attachment 1113435

Still the most beautiful Open Top on the internet. Bar none!

 

[woodnbow]

Yep, Uberti sucks. My first sixgun was a Uberti at 12yrs old and I've bought 33 more since. The most recent, four days ago. One of those other 33, I spent another $1000 on engraving, $500 on finish work and $1000 on ivory. Turrible guns.

View attachment 1113435

Goofy enough to buy one factory engraved too. What a dummy!

View attachment 1113436


I also bought my first Glock in 1992. Reliable guns, they go bang and do as intended. I'm grateful for the perspective but they don't keep me up at night.

Blast from the past…

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

The whole point being whether or not it's timed properly. Softer steel or not if the timing ain't right it ain't right. I've seen and handled a good handful of Remmies that were timed late and had short hands. Ruger likes to drop the bolt on their single actions way ahead of the lead in on the cylinder, I guess old Bill was really worried about throwby. That little score mark on the one pictured is showing me it's timed just about right, one width of the bolt head before the notch. The steel in the cylinder may be softer and show signs of wear fairly quickly depending on the bolt spring tension. This is why guys that tune these things gain a following, by corrected the factory defects.

 

[45 Dragoon]

The perceived "bolt drop" on the cylinder of the pictured Remington would be better if it were on the "other side" of the notch . . .

Mike

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Good eye Mike!! I didn't notice which side it's marked on.

 

[VMC]

I have an 1858 Remington Pietta in 44cal. After hundreds of shots the two black powder cylinders and one 45 conversion cylinder only have a very slight mark about 1/8" ahead of the slots. They are so light that you don't hardly notice unless you look for them. If you watch carefully the bolt does not make contact with the cylinder till then so no drag mark around the rest of the cylinder. I did make sure there were no burrs on the bolt and polished the top surface of it with a polishing compound wheel on a Dremel until it was slick as glass before I shot it the first time. The lockup and timing seem perfect to me.