Upgrade Dillon RL450 or Buy New Lee Pro1000

[mtpocketsad]

Years ago I bought a Lee anniversary loader. Works Ok. Brother in law gave me a older RL 450 set up for 38/357 2 piece die set from Dillon. I plan on loading .380, 9mm, 38/357. and .40. Already have all the dies. With the dillon I would have to reset dies each caliber swap. Unless I update to 550XL. Would like to have the progressive loader. I think I can get around $200 for the dillon and buy a Pro1000 for $170. But then you have to buy the different plates and die holders. Any input will be appreciated. Don't want to start a money pit. I want to save some for bullets.

 

[cfullgraf]

I would stick with Dillon.

 

[Sport45]

With the dillon I would have to reset dies each caliber swap.

Keep the 450 and buy set screw type locking rings for your dies. When you put them back in they will be set up just like they were when you took 'em out.

That's the most cost effective way I can think of to meet your stated goal of not starting a money pit. Tool heads cost money too.

 

[Claude Clay]

contact dillon for their monthly magazine. you can get plates for each caliber for ~$20 each. or try the web, e-bay perhaps. id stay with dillon and build up what you have to a full progressive. 400 rounds per hour is nice. i load my 7 most shot pistol calibers on a square deal. lyman turret for percision rifle and a lee thin red for everything else ( 18 assorted calibers) that is enjoy shooting but not a lot of or often.

 

[kingmt]

I really like the Pro1000. Turret & shellplate isn't a huge expense.

 

[mtpocketsad]

Any other input today?

 

[TonyT]

I would opt for the Dillon. The Lee warning against using certain brands of primers in their progressive presses scares me! I use mostly Federal primers in my loads for my lightly sprung revolvers and Winchester primers for my semi auto pistol loads.
You should contact Dilloon to determine what the conversion of the 450 to a 550 would cost.

 

[joecil]

I have two Lee Pro 1000 and really like them personally. I can't compare them to anything else on the market since I frankly haven't used anything but the Lee stuff. Now I will tell you Lee like all other makers have quirks and things you have to look out for when using. None make it bad just a matter of learning the right way to do things.

As for Primers, Federal are the ones Lee warns about due to the fact they can be chain fired when one goes off which is also another problem with Federal primers. I've used them myself and they work fine however I avoid buying Federal primers and much prefer other brands from CCI, Remington, RWS etc.

 

[beex215]

the lee pro 1000 has a very very terrible primer mechanism. it can get very frustrating, when the primers dont go as planned. they go sideways, upside down, and sometimes does not slide down at all.

what i did was just deactivate the sensor, so a primer would fall out of the chute regardless if brass is there or not. that helped plenty.

 

[LiveLife]

Don't want to start a money pit. I want to save some for bullets.

"Empty pocket sad"? Don't feel bad, I too have been there and done that. I was taught to reload on both Dillon 550 and Lee Pro 1000 but went the Lee way due to cost. Now I have 2 single stage, 2 Pro 1000, Lee Classic Turret and recently picked up a Dillon 450.

Since you already horned the reloading basics on a single stage, transitioning to progressive reloading shouldn't be that difficult (think of progressive reloading like using several single stage presses at the same time ).

But if money is tight, it will affect the reloading options available to you:

1. Staying with Dillon option.

- Not upgrading to 550 press body with removable tool head means changing dies one by one. With multiple caliber changes, this will get old but as others posted, this is doable with the use of locking rings ($17.50 for 6 rings).

- To load different calibers, you still need to buy conversion kits and they are $46 for each caliber.

- Not sure if your 450 has automatic powder measure ($88) and primer feed system ($86) (mine are manual) but if they are not, you may want to upgrade them too.

- If your 450 don't have auto case ejection, it's another $60 upgrade.

- Even with the upgrades, 450/550 is still a manually indexing progressive press and you'll need to add case to each ram lever stroke and hand index the shell plate.

If you want/need to do the upgrades to the Dillon 450, cost will add up fast and you may end up spending several hundred dollars. You could consider going with Lee Pro 1000 or Classic Turret, but there are some things to consider.


2. Going with Lee options.

- Pro 1000 kit will give you an auto indexing progressive press with case feeder (I highly recommend the $11 shell collator).

- Pro 1000 has gravity based primer feed system that requires understanding of operation and maintenance to keep it feeding smoothly (I outlined the steps to address Pro 1K primer feed issue on this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7877744#post7877744).

- Pro 1000 is 3 station press and you need to use separately sized/primed cases to seat bullet and crimp in separate steps.

- Pro 1000 will load pistol calibers and short rifle cases like .223/7.62x39.

Going with the Pro 1000 will give you higher volume production rate of pistol caliber rounds (400-600+ per hour) but you need to be familiar with it's operation and seat the bullet/crimp in the same step. Even with these limitations, Pro 1000 carries much lower caliber change cost ($8.50 3-hole turret, $14 shell plate and additional $14 primer feed attachment if switching from small/large primers). I have bought from FSreloading with lower prices so do some comparison shopping.

- Classic Turret will load both pistol and rifle calibers but since it is not a progressive press, production rate is lower (like 150-200/hour).

- Classic Turret is a 4 station press and allows separate bullet seating and crimping operation.

- Classic Turret is a very sturdy press and resizes thicker walled military .308 cases with ease.


I hope this helped. For now, I am planning to keep my Dillon 450 with powder measure/primer feed system upgrade as it will be set up for a dedicated caliber (probably 45ACP) and have separate Pro 1000 setup for 9mm and 40S&W (.308 will continue to be loaded on the Classic Turret).

the lee pro 1000 has a very very terrible primer mechanism. it can get very frustrating, when the primers dont go as planned. they go sideways, upside down, and sometimes does not slide down at all.

what i did was just deactivate the sensor, so a primer would fall out of the chute regardless if brass is there or not. that helped plenty.

There's a reason why the primers end up sideways or upside down and it has to do with ramp to rod surface inconsistency - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7877744#post7877744.

 

[mtpocketsad]

Thanks for the input bds, my 450 has manual powder charge and manual primer.
I am really leaning towards selling my 450 and going with the Lee. By the time I upgrade my 450 to what I want, May as well put all the money in a new 550.

 

[LiveLife]

You can post a thread in the "Buy, Sell, Trade: Reloading Components and Gear" section to sell your Dillon 450 or do a face-to-face (FTF) transaction locally.

If you plan on doing any rifle cartridge reloading, I highly recommend the Classic Turret kit as Pro 1000 is primarily a pistol caliber press. Here is a detailed article on the virtues of the Classic Turret press - http://www.realguns.com/archives/122.htm

Some will recommend the cast iron Classic Turret press over the Pro 1000 due to the fact that the Pro 1000 is built on the aluminum deluxe turret base (although heavily gusseted) and Pro 1000 has "finicky" primer feed system (and I agree). If you are not "mechanically inclined" and want less troublesome reloading experience, I would recommend the Classic Turret kit. If you are mechanically inclined, patient with good eyes/steady hands and only need to reload pistol calibers, Pro 1000 kit may be for you.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I really wish I had seen this thread 6 months ago. I traded my two Lee Pro-1000s off. I would have happily given them both to you in trade for your Dillon.

I am a fan of Lee, but I never got used to my Pro-1000s and am much happier with my Lee Classic Turret.

My objections to my Pro-1000s (I had one for large primers and one for small) are:

The primer feed was unreliable, especially when the feeder was low on primers or I tried to raise the output rate.

Debris from spent primers would get into the press' mechanism and the primer post area.

Spent primers would not reliably fall into the hollow in the press body where they were supposed to go, but wound up on the bench or the floor.

Swapping calibers requires some disassembly. Not much, but more than the Turret takes.

Last objection is not related to the Pro-1000 per se, but to me: I never got used to trying to monitor simultaneous operations. The Turret is simpler to supervise. The Dillon would suffer from the same (my) shortcoming, but I would not mind trying one. Unfortunately, my presses are gone.

I have never used a Dillon, so my opinion lacks the weight of experience, but from my experience with my Pro-1000s and testimonials I have heard about Dillon, I would do the upgrade.

Lost Sheep

 

[LiveLife]

Don't want to hijack the thread ... but if OP is getting a Pro 1000 here's some more tips.

Debris from spent primers would get into the press' mechanism and the primer post area.

Spent primers would not reliably fall into the hollow in the press body where they were supposed to go, but wound up on the bench or the floor.

I cut a small piece of aluminum can to use as cover for the spent primer slot in the ram. This cover directs 99.99% of spent primers into the collection hole in the base and reduced ram fouling - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7884861#post7884861

 

[joed]

Keep the Dillon, otherwise you'll regret it. I've owned nothing but Dillon progressives for the last 12 years. Just helped a friend with a Lee progressive. Best advice anyone ever gave me was go Dillon.

 

[LiveLife]

If you read the OP, mtpocketsad (can you say "empty pocket"?) posted, "Don't want to start a money pit."

Since he has the Dillon with manual powder/primer feed, just doing the powder measure, primer feed and case ejection upgrade will be $234 + shipping ($88 + $86 + $60).

Add 3 caliber conversion kits (he has .38/357 and needs 380/9/40), it will be $372 + shipping ($234 + (3x$46)) and this is not including other essentials such as primer flip tray, extra primer pickup tubes, low primer alarm, etc. (in the end, OP could be looking at over $450+).

Mind you, I would also suggest the OP to keep the Dillon and upgrade as the money situation improves.

If OP could sell the 450 and apply the proceeds to a Lee Classic Turret/Pro 1000 kit, his cost could be around $50-$100 depending how much he gets for the 450.

 

[Mike Kerr]

I own both, and have owned more than one of both Lee Pro 1000 s and Dillon 450's for several years.

You will have dies, or parts and pieces such as shell plates, powder funnels, yada, yada, yada, to buy with either the Dillon or the Lee. I cannot put enough emphasis on the reality that either way you go you will have costs for various caliber combinations and you can make serviceable ammo with either the Dillon of the Lee BUT for gosh sakes choose the Dillon 450.

I am a confirmed reloading enthusiast and I will not create " flame kindling" by pointing out problems that will arise with a Pro 1000 (any Pro 1000). Most Lee Pro 1000 problems can be over come and there are High Road members who can and will help you. Your Dillon 450 is still manual in operation but I know from personal experience that a 450 in proper condition will produce more net rounds per hour over the long haul. It will allow you to spend your time reloading not "fidiling with the press".

I'll be glad to provide details by PM either pro or con.

regards,

 

[LiveLife]

Mike Kerr, I agree with your comments on the Pro 1000 issues.

If simply loading rounds without the Pro 1000 issues is desired but faster than the single stage press OP already has, why not consider the Classic Turret option?

The Classic Turret kit is $207 and OP will just need extra 4-hole turrets ($8) for caliber conversion (if using Lee dies, standard shell holder comes with dies and Pro Auto Disk will adjust to different powder charges).

 

[loose noose]

Stay with the Dillon, next to RCBS it's the best there is!

 

[Lost Sheep]

If simply loading rounds without the Pro 1000 issues is desired but faster than the single stage press OP already has, why not consider the Classic Turret option?

The OP has both a Single Stage he purchased AND a Dillon 450 given to him.

I do like my Classic Turret and easily triple my output over my single stage and your suggestion is well taken. Trading the Dillon for the Lee Classic Turret might be a wise choice. That is not what he asked, but is something he maybe should have asked.

One other point. Adding calibers to the Lee Classic Turret is relatively cheap, one turret disk and a set of dies from Lee (which includes the shell holder) will be less than $50 and can be swapped out in less than 15 seconds (exclusive of switching the powder measure). Adding calibers to either progressive will involve a change in shell plate in addition to the other parts. If you change calibers between relatively small runs of ammo, the Turret might actually be capable of a greater sustained rate of production than either progressive.

I own both, and have owned more than one of both Lee Pro 1000 s and Dillon 450's for several years.

This is experience to heed.

Your Dillon 450 is still manual in operation but I know from personal experience that a 450 in proper condition will produce more net rounds per hour over the long haul. It will allow you to spend your time reloading not "fidiling with the press".

I'll be glad to provide details by PM either pro or con.

regards,

There is a fundamental difference between cyclic rate and sustained rate. Clearing misfeeds, refilling primer tubes, refillilng case feed tubes, etc all interrupt the continuous operation of anything. Cyclic rate is ALWAYS greater than sustained rate. A press that runs steady as a rock at a slow cyclic rate can still surpass a press that runs at a higher cyclic rate whose sustained rate is reduced by stoppages. And a lot less frustrating, too, even if the stoppages are natural, not because of failures.

Tortoise and hare principle. The Dillon being the tortoise.

About the Dillon. The O.P. has a qualified mentor/trainer for the Dillon. I would suggest taking advantage of that.

Last point: Inter-familial relations support keeping the Dillon: Benjamin Franklin said, "If you want to make a friend, let someone do you a favor." and Abraham Lincoln said, "If you would make a friend of a man, borrow a book from him." (It makes great sense. It establishes a that you have common interest and gives you a track record of faithful debt service as long as you return the book in good condition.)

Lost Sheep

 

[Hondo 60]

I had a Pro 1000 & now have a 550.
I actually chuckled out loud when I saw the title for this thread.

Not to disparage Lee, or Lee owners, as I have LOTS of Lee stuff, but that's like the difference between a Cadillac & a Ford Pinto.
(If you're not old enough to remember the Pinto, it was a VERY cheap VERY crappy car.)

Or it's like the difference between a mansion & studio apartment.

 

[mtrmn]

PLEASE--don't ever consider Lee after using Dillon.

I bought a Lee loadmaster to save some coin and get into progressive loading. Spent 3-4 days tinkering trying to get the thing to work. Downloaded and watched all the videos. Finally boxed it up and sent it back for refund (minus postage). Bought a Dillon 550 and was loading ammo within 3 hrs of opening the box. Buy once - cry once.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I had a Pro 1000 & now have a 550.
I actually chuckled out loud when I saw the title for this thread.

Not to disparage Lee, or Lee owners, as I have LOTS of Lee stuff, but that's like the difference between a Cadillac & a Ford Pinto.
(If you're not old enough to remember the Pinto, it was a VERY cheap VERY crappy car.)

Or it's like the difference between a mansion & studio apartment.

I am old enough to remember the Ford Pinto and its famous exploding gas tank. But I am also old enough to remember SCCA's creation of the Showroom Stock class of racing in 1972. Among the first field of Showroom Stock cars, the Pinto was the second fastest on the race track (in tests conducted by Car & Driver Magazine).

Lost Sheep, not a big fan of the Pinto (though a friend of mine had one that was pretty darned hot) but a real fan of (certain models of) Lee tools AND Dillon and Hornady and RCBS and Forster and all other well-designed and well made tools, regardless of the maker.

 

[kingmt]

Just in case you don't know it a Cadillac is a very crapy car & Pinto is still sought after.

It is knowen that you need primers in the feed for the Pro1000 to work so if you run it low how is that the press's problem. As soon as the primers are down the ramp enough to change the tray I fill it. The only problem I have had was when I tried to run crimped primers through it. I can't blame the press for my mistake.

I run a Load Master also. I have yet to have a problem with it. I watched the videos also & knew not to do half of what was suggested. The suggestions will cause failures.

 

[RustyFN]

Not to disparage Lee, or Lee owners, as I have LOTS of Lee stuff, but that's like the difference between a Cadillac & a Ford Pinto.
(If you're not old enough to remember the Pinto, it was a VERY cheap VERY crappy car.)

I had a pinto and loved it. It might have been cheap but not crappy. Also if you are trying to say Cadillac never had anything with bad engineering then you don't remember the 4,6,8 engine.

As far as reloading presses I have a Lee classic turret and Dillon 550 and like them both.