Upgrading 2 Stage Mauser Trigger

[mrh477]

Good evening,
I'd like to do something about the stock trigger in my VZ.24 sporter. I know there are plenty of aftermarket triggers for Mauser 98's but so far all I've been able to find is single stage triggers. I like a nice 2 stage trigger and am hoping I can get the lighter, crisper trigger I want without having to go to a single stage like a Timney.

http://huberconcepts.com/product/mauser-trigger/

This guy makes triggers that utilize the original sear, spring, and pins but without changing the sear and spring I wonder how much it would actually do to improve the whole mechanism. One of the main things I'd like to accomplish is lightening the trigger a bit but I am reluctant to go cutting on the sear spring without hearing from someone who knows what they're talking about.

Another idea is polishing the cocking piece where it engages the sear and the sear itself but, again, I'm no gunsmith and I'm reluctant to go fiddling with something as sensitive and precisely-dimensioned as a trigger mechanism without talking to someone more knowledgable first.

Advice?

Thanks!

 

[rcmodel]

You can't have it both ways with the standard Mauser two-stage military trigger.

You can polish the mating sear surfaces and humps on the trigger and make them very smooth, and lighter.

But they will still be long and not crisp.

They have to be that way to remain safe, due to all the slop in the cocking peice, striker, and bolt looseness inside the receiver.

Sear engagement Must Be Kept long to make a safe engagement stay safe in all the bolt and striker movement range possible.

The Huber trigger seems about twice the price I would pay for nothing more then a polished military trigger you already have.

To be safe, and light?
The actual sear needs to be moved from the striker, to an enclosed trigger housing like the Timmeny, or Bold triggers.

http://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/timney-mauser-sportsman-replacement-trigger.aspx

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/31...igger-mauser-98-without-side-safety-2-to-4-lb

You actually Can shoot as well or better with a single-stage trigger that breaks like glass.





rc

 

[Jim K]

If you want a light but safe single stage trigger, rcmodel has the answer.

If you want one of the best two-stage triggers, you have it.

Jim

 

[mrh477]

I can handle the long travel, in fact I can see some advantages of it. I do feel a bit safer with it, especially in the field where situations vary so much. The weight on the second stage is what I'm having trouble getting used to. Is there a safe way to lighten that? Is it okay to cut down the sear spring a little?

 

[Turftech1]

I just polished the mating surfaces on the sear and bolt, to lighten the trigger on my M48 a few weeks ago. I would try that first. It made a huge difference, and I am happy with the trigger feel it has now. It was heavy, and not smooth. It is much better now. I had planned on lightening the spring too, but found I really didn't need to after polishing.

I used a polishing stone, because I wanted to make sure I kept the angles the same and didn't round the edges. I took my time, polished, cleaned, then greased and reassembled.

 

[mrh477]

Cool, I'll give that a shot. I've got a few good Arkansas stones and some stropping compound I sharpen knives with so that oughtta make it nice and shiny.

 

[Kp321]

Yes, you can cut the sear spring or substitute a weaker spring of the same length. In fact an old trick is to swap the sear spring with the spring from the floor plate release.

 

[Jim K]

If you do decide to cut that spring, have a replacement handy. It is pretty easy to reduce the spring weight too much and have a trigger pull that is dangerous or won't properly reset.

Jim

 

[mrh477]

Well I pulled the whole thing apart yesterday to start polishing the trigger mechanism but after closely inspecting it, I'm beginning to wonder how much good I'll be able to do. The edges on the sear and cocking piece are not too square or precise, so while I could certainly do more to polish it, I worry that it'll just end up rounding the corners and making the trigger mushy.

Thoughts? Should I consider replacing the cocking piece and/or sear? Or could I get significant improvement by polishing?

(pics coming)

 

[mrh477]

 

[mrh477]

 

[mrh477]

 

[Kp321]

The sear doesn't look too bad but the cocking piece is terrible. The sear surface on the cocking piece should be square, not angled off like yours is.
I know I have a drawer full of very good triggers but I'm not sure how many good cocking pieces. I'll look tomorrow and let you know if I can help you upgrade your trigger.

 

[dfariswheel]

You don't want to do a lot of "polishing" on Mauser parts.
These are case hardened with a very thin layer or "crust" of almost glass hard steel with a softer steel inner.

Almost any polishing can break through the hard layer and expose soft inner metal, which ruins the part.
When we talk about "polishing" gun parts we really mean to smooth the part to level machine marks that cause rough operation.
You don't even need to totally remove the marks, just level them enough to prevent catching on rough surfaces.
Polishing to a mirror shine does nothing for smoothness and often ruins the parts.

One big help for rough Mauser operation is a little good grease on the trigger "humps" and the contact faces of the sear and cocking piece.

Beware when replacing Mauser parts like the sear "box" and the cocking piece.
These have to fit correctly or you get problems like applying the safety, pulling the trigger, then flipping the safety off and the firing pin drops.
Another problem that crops up is you either can't get the safety on, or it's so hard to get on as to be unusable.
This is caused by mis-fitting parts and the only cure is to switch parts until you get a combination that does fit correctly.
This means you need more then one sear and one cocking piece.

 

[mrh477]

That would make sense then, because the safety is pretty stiff and difficult to switch on/off. Looking at the cocking piece there's not much of a bevel where it engages.

 

[mrh477]

I imagine it's been replaced at least once because none of the numbers on anything match. So who knows what the rifles been through in the past

 

[morcey2]

To figure out what the gun is capable of, I'd but a Bold trigger and put it in. It's a single stage trigger, but very crisp. I've got several of them along with a Timney and a Dayton-Traister in my sporterized or customized mausers. That will at least give you a starting point on the accuracy of the gun and it's not a huge investment, somewhere around $50. (my favorite of the 3 types is the Dayton-Traister.)

That will give you time to work on the stock trigger. Cocking pieces are only $8 each at numrich: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/5780C.htm
and the sear is about the same price: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/6360B.htm

You could pick up a couple of each and see which ones work best together.

I understand your wanting to have a good 2-stage trigger. I've got an AR-15 with a Rock River Arms 2-stage varmint trigger that I love. I've dry-fired a couple of 1903s that have had their triggers worked over that were also really good. I didn't spend a lot of time with them and I don't know if they had enough sear engagement to be safe. That's the problem with the stock mauser and 1903 triggers. It's very hard to get them light, crisp, and safe at the same time. If you get them light and crisp, they're usually not safe because there is insufficient sear engagement to be safe.

Now, if you wanted the ultimate, step up to double set-triggers.

Matt

 

[Jim K]

Another problem with Mausers is that the bolts usually have a lot of slop in the receiver. That is fine for a military rifle, but can be a problem for improving the trigger. The sear is in the receiver, but the cocking piece is in the bolt. So, when the trigger is pulled,the sear doesn't always disengage smoothly from the cocking piece; instead it just pulls the whole bolt down with it, leading to erratic and uneven trigger pulls. Polishing and/or lubricating the surfaces can alleviate the problem but not eliminate it.

Replacement triggers like the Timney get around that problem by using a prop-up sear so that the trigger pull is based on the sear and the trigger, both of which are in the trigger unit; the sear stops the cocking piece, but the trigger "feel" is all in the trigger unit itself.

Jim

 

[mrh477]

I ordered a couple extra sears and cocking pieces from Numrich so hopefully this little experiment pans out. If not then I'll just suck it up and buy an aftermarket trigger.

Just to clarify, though, since these parts are all case hardened, how much polishing can I do safely? Should I even get out the ceramic stones or should I stick to leather and stropping compound?

 

[mrh477]

Now here's an odd one for y'all. I stripped the rifle down today and removed all the oil in order to grease the action and trigger mechanism. I prefer to use grease on everything that I can't get to without stripping the rifle, and then everything that I can easily get to without stripping the rifle either gets paste wax or an oily rag. Previously this rifle was oiled all the way throughout including the internal metal parts. After I greased the trigger mechanism and put it all back together, the trigger basically lost its second stage! Now it feels like a long, mushy single stage trigger and it consistently fires during the first stage of the pull.

I did polish the cocking piece and sear but just barely--I touched them both up with a piece of stropping leather loaded with compound. Both pieces got a few passes and that's it.

Any ideas on this one?

The only thing I can think of is that when I put it back together, with how loosely fitting all these old military parts are, the cocking piece is maybe riding a little higher and engages the sear less. Or maybe the grease I put on the trigger mechanism is a part of this?