Upland Game Hunting With Hiking Poles

[41magsnub]

My hunting buddy for many years now has extremely bad knees. Both are candidates for replacement, but he is only 45, in great shape, and can still walk with pain so he is going to wait until he can't walk to get them done.

He is an avid upland game hunter and has a 5 year old Brittany who is now in her hunting prime. He uses two hiking poles to walk on rough terrain for safety and support. The problem is how can he carry around his shotgun and get it ready to fire quick enough if a bird jumps?

I do not know the exact model but he carries a Bennelli 12 ga over under which is not friendly to slings as far as I know but can be rigged. It is his only shotgun.

What are his options? My first thought is to convince him to retire the over under and pick up a 870 of some flavor or another and get tactical sling since there are a lot of options for it. Then he can just drop the poles and the shotgun is already in something close to a firing position.

My other thought is to get him to give up upland game hunting solo (he doesn't care if he shoots birds or not, just likes to go and work the dog) and take up duck/goose hunting over decoys. It is less fun for the dog but she still gets to retrieve birds which she loves. If that is the case then he would be better served by a pump or auto anyway that is choked properly for that type of hunting.

Any thoughts?

 

[koja48]

Would it be feasible to wear a good brace on 1 or both knees, use a single pole, and carry the shotgun in the other hand? It's a tough thing & knees take a while to heal, but after a heart problem a few years back, my Doc suggested I skip hunting that year & let things heal. I weighed my short-term desire against my long term options, considered how many hunts I'd miss if I became incapacitated & died in the great outdoors that I love, and took the season off. I reckon this old misplaced Montanan has made a slew of wrong decisions in his lifetime, but, in retrospect I don't believe that was one of them. Sometimes it's best to "bite the bullet." On that note, I did get a lot of trout flies tied, a couple rods built, several guns re-finished, & a lot of ammo loaded in that interim. I wish your friend well . . .

 

[41magsnub]

Thanks Koja, sadly it is a degenerative issue, they are not going to get better so he is going to use them while he still can then go for surgery and see how much function he gets back. He has full braces on both knees now and feels strongly that he needs both poles.

 

[41magsnub]

My other option for him (kidding) was to rig up one of those anti shark bang sticks on the end of one of the poles with bird shot in it

 

[Geno]

Hmmm, another doctor claiming "...permanent and degenerative injury". I had an orthopedic surgeon tell me when I was 35 that I would have to get both knees replaced.

I used the carbon-fiber & steel knee braces for a few years, a cane and resumed serious and sustained martial arts practice. After a couple of years, I threw away the braces, parked the cane and walk as-well-as ever. In fact, my office is on the 3rd floor, and I refuse to use the elevator. This by a man who the doctors said would never work again, and who needed both knees replaced.

Being that your friend has a physical handicap, he should be able to go to the DNR and get a permit to hunt from a vehicle. He could hunt from the rear of a truck...don't laugh...I've seen it. PTL! Other options are to hunt from an ATV. Seen that too. Let me end by saying that where there is a will, there is a way. Seek the way.

 

[koja48]

My Son was born with a short femur. When he turned 17, he underwent lengthening surgery complete with 18-months of hardware attached to his leg & I used to pack him into duck/goose blinds on either my back, a modified game cart, or some combination thereof, weather permitting. If your friend's upland passion is pheasant hunting, perhaps you could employ a similar tactic, positioning him as a "blocker" and pushing birds toward him & his pooch. Back to toting a shotgun, I would think a short-barrelled shottie tethered from a single-point sling would be feasible . . . I use one of these when I'm "walking-up coyotes": . . . https://www.rockymountaintactical.net/?page=shop/details&product_id=1&
I actually have the Delta, but same principle & I think it would be fairly easy to attach to the wrist area of a shotgun stock. A 20-gauge would reduce the weight a bit, too.

 

[41magsnub]

Doc, I think this is the real deal here though. Dave is a doctor himself, though a Dermatologist, and to my knowledge has done all the research and had all his buddies review it. As a side note this is part of why he is such a valuable hunting buddy (besides the fact that he is an all around good guy and etc). All those old ranchers and farmers come in with their various skin issues from working in the sun all their lives (he is the only "pimple popper" in the area). He chats them up and frequently gets invited to come out hunting. Then he uses all the drug samples he gets from reps as gifts to the land owners to return the favor.

I don't think working the dog from the truck works too well

I'm going to work on him to get a tactical sling. That Delta model looks like it might work. Maybe I can get him to borrow my 870 or youth model 12 and try it out.

As a side note.. if he were to borrow my 20 ga it would be way too short for him and the 870 is a wingmaster so it might be a little long for this application. I have been looking for a replacement stock for the 20 ga that is an adult length with out much success. Any ideas there? It is a Winchester 120 20 ga youth model.

 

[koja48]

Hope it works-out. Keep me posted. Hunting is fun; helping is rewarding . . . God Bless . . .

 

[ArmedBear]

I used to pack him into duck/goose blinds on either my back, a modified game cart, or some combination thereof, weather permitting.

Damn, that brought a tear to my eye. Seriously. What a great Dad!

 

[ArmedBear]

How much longer do you have to extend that stock?

You can get a 24" barrel for that Wingmaster: http://shotgunsportsmagazine.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=31_52

Could also get an inexpensive Stoeger O/U or something. Then he won't feel bad about Mexineering it for a tactical sling.

With a dog, you don't need to be able to pop the gun up in a split second. He should have enough time to unsling, with the right setup. More important might be a clever way to sling the trekking poles to his back so he can drop them and they fall out of the way, but are easily retrieved. Should be possible (and fun, if you like inventin' stuff).

 

[koja48]

Thanks, Bear, but more correctly, a Great Son . . . never complained, did everything he ever wanted to do along the way - - a lot of it he did his own way, but he did it, & there aren't many men so fortunate as to be able to claim their Son as a role model. I am so blessed. It was a hell of a journey, but one that made both of us better men for the travels. My favorite story is as follows: He was in recovery from a vulgus osteotomy (hip surgery, following 6 months or so in a body cast). Upon his return to middle school sans cast, I met with the PE teacher and told him ". . . no contact sports or running. While the other kids were doing so, John could do sit-ups, etc." John came home one day highly excited & I asked how school went. He said, "I ran the mile in PE!" After the initial white-hot flash to anger subsided, I stated the teacher was instructed that you weren't to run. "He told me that, Dad; I wanted to." "Well, how did you do?" (fearing a tale of frustration in being "last") . . . "9 minutes." "Cool . . . what was the best time?" Said John, "9 minutes . . . all the kids hung back & ran with me." Now THAT will bring a tear to your eye, but it's a joyful tear . . . (and excuse me while I wipe . . . again). There is still a wealth of good in this world . . .

 

[41magsnub]

I second Koja being an awesome dad, I should have brought that up too.

The 20 gauge needs about another 1" inch. It already has a thick recoil pad added to the stock. I tried a pachmyer (spelling) slip on pad over the top of that and it added about 3/4" but was really squirrelly when trying to hold it. Too much play back there.

 

[ArmedBear]

Is the 120 a 12 Gauge frame? I'm not sure about the history. I think they take the same stock. I'd go to the Shotgun forum and find out. Numrich has a bunch of stocks that should fit.

It should fit the same stock as a 1200. If the 120 20 Gauge is built on the same frame as the 12, you can also get a cheap stock set from Ram Line with a swivel stud in it.

http://www.ramlinestocks.com/ramstocks.html

 

[41magsnub]

It is a model 12 frame as far as I can tell, but every stock I can find disclaims it as 12 ga only.

 

[ArmedBear]

e-gunparts (Numrich) lists stocks for the 1200 as "12, 16 and 20".

Back then, Remington's 20 Gauge receiver guns were built on the same frame as the 12. The "LT" models didn't come along until the late '70s. I wouldn't be surprised if Winchester did likewise.

One of the Winchester guys in the Shotgun Forum probably knows.

 

[koja48]

Try this

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=701480&chrSuperSKU=&MC=

 

[Geno]

Clarify:

I believe it is real, as was (is) my case. I guess my "refuse-to-quit" attitude shines through. Sorry if it offends. It's what kept me going through my 35 surgeries following the accident. The two surgeries I refused were the knee replacements.

I make walking sticks for martial artists and various handicapped individuals to facilitate hiking. They are called "Healing Limbs". I actually started making them to rehab my shoulders...get it, to heal my limbs, but also a tree limb. I know, odd name.

For my part, I had to opt to drive back to the hunting area instead walk in, and I had to carry a small folding seat so I could sit when my legs fatigued. If he isn't using custom-made braces, they are awesome! They made all the difference during rehab, but they cost about $5,000.00 per pair.

Edit to add: my former orthopedic surgeon told me that the best on-going treatment is to keep using the knees, i.e. hunting, hiking, martial arts, etc because the knees then continually produce new lubricant in the joints.

What is his specific knee diagnosis? One of our TaeKwonDo National Directors is an Orthopedic Surgeon. I can call and ask him for further suggestions if you or your friend would like. He is also a fanatic hunter who also has joint "issues" like us.

Be well,

Doc2005

 

[ACP230]

Contender pistol with shot loads in a shoulder holster?
Drop one pole when the dog gets birdy?

 

[ArmedBear]

I do think that tying a line from each pole to the center belt loop of his pants might work great.

Dog points, he drops poles and mounts shotgun.

Dog flushes, he fires. Sling shotgun, retrieve poles from behind him by the lines tied to them, wait for dog.

 

[koja48]

Sounds like a plan! Good idea, Bear.

 

[41magsnub]

Thanks guys. I don't have any of the specifics from him with medical jargon for the issue but will bug him next time I talk to him. The laymans version I have is all the cartilage is gone from both knees which makes it quite painful to walk. He is grinding bone every time he steps. He is the doctor, I am the IT guy who is 14 years younger. I'm probably not the one to be giving him medical advice, I'm concerned he might even resent it and I am certain he has done all the research possible. I'm just trying to help him work within his new limitations.

We do get a fair number of jump birds at least later in the season. They simply will not stay down and flush as soon as they hear the dog. That is the exception but he likes to take those shots. Maybe that is the sacrifice he makes is he only gets the deathwish birds that fly right at him or that stay down while the dog points them. Then a body sling for the shotgun and the poles tied off somewhere would work well.

 

[pete f]

I am around people all day long who played pro ball or big ten ball, most of the ones over 50 are looking into or have had done, knee replacements. ALL that have had it done in the last five years say waiting was the dumbest thing they ever did. Getting back into the shape after several years limited walking and exercise was far worse than the actual replacements.

Tell him to track down recent knee replacement recipients and find out how much better has become since becoming painfree.

I know two guys who had them done fall of 05, in late october, and who were skiing with friends over Christmas break of 05. I was just with another who had his knee done over spring break, was back in the class room without missing a school day (he's a teacher/coach) and was water skiing on July 4th



IMHO< having someone try to grouse hunt while managing ski poles, a shotgun, and the terrain is someone who's going to have a mistake and hurt someone probably his associates.

 

[Polishrifleman]

I'll jump in with Pete F, my neighbor hunts Clearwater Buglers with a bow, had both knees done two years ago and is hard at it again. There is the potential to have to go in again but with advancements in technology, procedures, etc... it will probably be a one day visit and 2 week recovery time in 15 years.

I am sure he has his reasons and by being a doctor is up to speed on everything under the sun and then some. Don't feel you are treading lightly hopefully he will understand you care!

 

[sixgunner455]

I bird hunt with a Brittany (mine is two), a double barrel shotgun, and one walking stick for balance/pain relief in my lower back.

I don't worry about rushing shots. I accept that I'm going to miss opportunities to shoot, but I started hunting birds because I love hunting with bird dogs. I love watching them work the field and the birds. Sounds like that is what your friend loves about it, too. I would encourage him to either get a sling for his gun or hunt with a partner to do the gun bearing, and possibly most of the shooting, leaving him to work the dog -- since that's why he's there anyway. If he doesn't care whether he shoots birds or not, because working the dog on the upland birds is his passion, switching to waterfowl likely will not satsify. In the marshes and ponds, the dog just sits there until sent on a retrieve. It's still working a dog, but is much different.

 

[MeekandMild]

There is a type of one point lanyard sling for break action shotguns which mounts at the center of gravity and will carry the gun in its open position. (I've never seen one is use and don't know how well they would work.) He might email the Benelli corporation and see if they can tell him about them and how to obtain one. Another thought is to carry the shotgun (unloaded) in a scabbard on his shoulder.