US v Olofson - Cliff Notes Version

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PremiumSauces: The proper response is to object strenuously, file motions, requests for re-hearings, interlocutory appeals, etc. Did he just have a terrible lawyer, or what?

He went through about 6 Lawyers, several of which i have read apparently quit out of frustration over the BATFE Flat out Refusing to Follow direct orders from a Federal Judge to release crucial documents which they had the only copy's of and over Refusal to allow any NON-BATFE Personnel to perform any real Examination of the Rifle, a couple he fired over incompetence.

mbt2001: I didn't think that they could refuse the defense from examining the rifle... I mean, you have to be allowed to confront your accusor and the "rifle" in this case was as much an accusor as the BATFE.

By Law they Can't, but that didn't stop them in this case or with Waco did it?

RPCVYemen: Mr. Olofson told Robert Kiernicki that the weapon would in fact fire in select fire mode - though it might jam after doing that. So there is no doubt that Mr. Olofson knew that the weapon was capable of firing in select fire mode.

The only testimony that said that was Kierniki's which if you read in full carefully contradicts itself so often that is it obviously a Lie/Fabrication, his testimony has enough holes in it for it to look like a screen door.

RPCVYemen: I am not a lawyer, and I don't quite understand the discovery phase. I thought that the judge could compel the revelation of documents by the prosecution (or the defense). If the judge decided that what was being requested was relevant, wouldn't the judge have compelled discovery? If the judge did not compel discovery, why not?

The Judge did Compel discovery on numerous occasions, problem was the BATFE Either Flat out Ignored the Order's to Compel Discovery or fraudulently claimed they were "Privileged Tax Information" (which was proven to be a bald faced lie) and Refused to release the documents.
 
Then maybe he has hope of overturning on appeal. If there was credible testimony that was excluded and he was "railroaded" then maybe it will get thrown out.
 
The Judge did Compel discovery on numerous occasions, problem was the BATFE Either Flat out Ignored the Order's to Compel Discovery or fraudulently claimed they were "Privileged Tax Information" (which was proven to be a bald faced lie) and Refused to release the documents.

Wait. Is there a lawyer here who can explain what happens when the judge compels discovery, and the prosecutor refuses? I thought that the judge had a fairly free hand, and could apply sanctions up to an including dismissing charges.

Is that correct? What sanctions did the judge apply?

Mike
 
Thanks for taking the time to compile all the info in one location.

The BATFE has needed disbanding for a while now. This should just help hasten the inevitable. Sooner or later their blatant disregard for the law will catch up to them.
 
The Judge did Compel discovery on numerous occasions, problem was the BATFE Either Flat out Ignored the Order's to Compel Discovery or fraudulently claimed they were "Privileged Tax Information" (which was proven to be a bald faced lie) and Refused to release the documents.
How does a judge/court enforce such things? If some agency, person, group, or whomever decides not to comply, does the judge just say "oh well, darn"? Or, can the court send in the sheriff, FBI, local PD, etc?
 
I wonder about this case is who from the range called the police?

DTOM, I am glad I am not the only one who noticed this, it seems though in every thread about this my observation is pushed to the side, The truth is unless the range said a cop was there and called the ATF, this range needs to be blacklisted in a major way. a bunch a fudd's must be in charge of it, because normally all that would happen is the RSO would say "take it home and fix it".
 
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Mr. Olofson was not convicted of manufacturing or possessing a machinegun. ... The transfer is what got Mr. Olofson in trouble.
Very interesting, and hugely overlooked.
If he knew it tended to "double", he shouldn't have been loaning it out.
 
I wonder about this case is who from the range called the police?

Cops were at the range shooting in a nearby lane from what I have heard, they supposedly heard the double/trippleing and came over and confiscated the rifle due to that, Mr Olofson went down to the PD to collect it but after his arguing with them over the fact that it was malfunctioning and not a MG they called the BATFE on him.

Very interesting, and hugely overlooked.
If he knew it tended to "double", he shouldn't have been loaning it out.

Point is that it only had that issue before he replaced the OLY parts with DPMS ones many years ago, he said that it hadn't doubled in all the years of operation since.

heck even with my near extremely limited knowledge of AR15's I know about Hammer Follow and a couple other Malfunctions that can cause an AR15 to double due to worn or badly installed parts.
 
If a judge compels discovery and the ATF does not comply, the defendant should seek a contempt citation against ATF. If the evidence is withheld and the case moves forward, it is further grounds for appeal.

I sense that something else is going on here.

He went through about 6 Lawyers, several of which i have read apparently quit out of frustration over the BATFE Flat out Refusing to Follow direct orders from a Federal Judge to release crucial documents which they had the only copy's of and over Refusal to allow any NON-BATFE Personnel to perform any real Examination of the Rifle, a couple he fired over incompetence.
I am an attorney (no longer practicing) and have some experience as defense counsel as a public defender. I haven't read this whole thread, but I cannot imagine quitting over that issue. Are you sure it is not about money?
 
Taking an SKS with a sticky firing pin and a history of slam firing out to the range is suicidal.

I think that I might know someone who could have an SKS that might possibly do something like that...I better warn that person to clean the damned gun, including taking the bolt apart and cleaning it well.

Wouldn't want this person to have to explain a slam fire to the idjit gun grabbers, even without any hint of a transfer....
 
The Judge did Compel discovery on numerous occasions, problem was the BATFE Either Flat out Ignored the Order's to Compel Discovery or fraudulently claimed they were "Privileged Tax Information" (which was proven to be a bald faced lie) and Refused to release the documents.

Wait. Is there a lawyer here who can explain what happens when the judge compels discovery, and the prosecutor refuses? I thought that the judge had a fairly free hand, and could apply sanctions up to an including dismissing charges.

If I was the judge, I'd give 1 warning about consequences if one of my orders was ignored, on the theory that someone misunderstood. But NO 2nd chances - I'd have outright dismissed the case with prejudice after that.
 
If I was the judge, I'd give 1 warning about consequences if one of my orders was ignored, on the theory that someone misunderstood. But NO 2nd chances - I'd have outright dismissed the case with prejudice after that.

That's one odd thing with this case, it appeared at one point that that was exactly what was about to happen, then their was a sudden dramatic reversal of the Judge's behavior and he added several absurd charges onto the conviction for things that are not crimes sounding like a spokesman for the VPC.

What caused that? I have no clue, and speculating on it will likely only send this discussion down the low road eventually.
 
My guess is the ATF got to the judge during the off hours and "convinced" him to side with them, or else.
 
updated info

Gun owners of America has came to Mr. Olofson's aid.

Three attorneys, from two law firms, one of which is a former ATF assistant director. There are several points to Mr. Olofsons appeal. Most stated in the above thread.

The stink of this case goes far deeper than currently discussed. I suggest you go back and read the criminal complaint. Look at the dates. The complaint was 17 days after receiving the FTB report of the first test. She filed this complaint 3 days before the second test report was even written.....Hmmm

At the time of Agent Keeku's Criminal Complaint the ONLY official Report she had proved Olofson's rifle was NOT a machinegun.

Why did Agent Keeku fail to tell the Judge in her criminal complaint of this little fact?

Why didn't Agent Keeku wait for the second "report of examination" that was wrote 3 days later?.....or was it?

The information is public. If you look there is more........

Olofson trumps Heller, do you really think ATF will heed SCOTUS when they defy the Bill of Rights daily?

Len
 
Case back to the Supreme court.

Well, we needed a machinegun case to test Heller. While we want the perfect case, this is what we have.

I know that Heller makes comments about "common arms". Well, I think the definition of "common" may have evolved.

Well, lets look at the last armed conflict.

Some sides used bolt action rifles(Japan and Germany), we used semi auto M1garands as standard arms.

The United States had the homeguard which civilians with private arms helped patrol the country, especially the coasts. If we didn't have the homeguard, less resources would be available for the war effort.

It is interesting that American civilians donated arms so that British citizens could have guns to fight off a potential German invasion.

Where was the gun ban crowd during world war 2?

Toward the end of world war two, the Germans developed the first assault rifles and found they were very effective, they were just too late.

The Russians however developed the assault rifle and we now have 50 million AK47's worldwide. Seems gun is well suited for militia purposes.

The M14 was developed from the M1, of course the big mod was a detachable mag and selective fire.

Of course the US Army modified and issued M2 carbines. I guess select fire was very useful in Korea. Only problem was running out of ammo during Human wave attacks.

Where am I going. In 1934, full auto was not a common or standard military arm. Most Armies still had bolt action rifles.

Today, the only military bolt actions are sniper rifles. The rest are all selctive fire weapons.

The armed American population was a major factor per documents from the Japanese as to why they didn't invade our country during WW2.

This would show that a armed population is a major national security asset.

To prohibit the militia to be armed with modern weapons is to jeopardize the security of the country.

Certainly security of our country is a significantly more compelling need than making a few people feel good.

We have a 50 year track record of non problems with full automatic firearms, especially among those that are legally registered.

My these cases are getting interesting. It is to bad Mr Olofson is in Club Fed.
 
Yup. Take what we can get, but methinks the "malfunction" issue will prove a red herring and, like Stewart, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He claims it was a malfunction, and does not claim he intended it a MG (esp. as 2-3 rounds are followed by a jam); asserting 922(o) unconstitutional is a "hail Mary" ploy to escape conviction by any means available, not a defense of a deliberate exercise of a protected right. If it works, great - I don't expect much but damage to RKBA.
 
Well, we needed a machinegun case to test Heller. While we want the perfect case, this is what we have.

Ummm, No.

We have an even bigger issue to resolve here than Heller/NFA. Here is a Federal Agency defying court orders and the courts in effect denying the defendant due process. If one cannot get due process in a court of law when dealing with BATFE than youcan forget any chance of getting a favorable ruling against NFA/'86 MG bans.

If the courts started throwing out all cases where the Feds refused to give up evidence for review and began making the Feds pay the defense's attorney's fees this would end overnight.
 
A direct move on 922(o) avoids the BATFE. They just enforce what they can argue is the law; if 922(o) is no longer law then they cannot enforce it.

Don't wrestle a pig. You'll get dirty and the pig likes it.
 
That's one odd thing with this case, it appeared at one point that that was exactly what was about to happen, then their was a sudden dramatic reversal of the Judge's behavior and he added several absurd charges onto the conviction for things that are not crimes sounding like a spokesman for the VPC.

What caused that?

I'd love to see the FBI investigate that...knowing, of course, that it'll never happen. I just fantasize that our public servants will, you know, actually be held accountable for abusing their authority every once in a while.
 
Sam Adams: I'd love to see the FBI investigate that...knowing, of course, that it'll never happen. I just fantasize that our public servants will, you know, actually be held accountable for abusing their authority every once in a while.

+1

Historic Arms LLC: At the time of Agent Keeku's Criminal Complaint the ONLY official Report she had proved Olofson's rifle was NOT a machinegun.

Why did Agent Keeku fail to tell the Judge in her criminal complaint of this little fact?

Why didn't Agent Keeku wait for the second "report of examination" that was wrote 3 days later?.....or was it?

Knew I was forgetting something, Thanks for posting it.

Historic Arms LLC: Olofson trumps Heller, do you really think ATF will heed SCOTUS when they defy the Bill of Rights daily?

No Argument here, although I have a strong feeling (that keeps getting stronger) that Olofson may get bigger than any of us can at present imagine.

jaholder1971: We have an even bigger issue to resolve here than Heller/NFA. Here is a Federal Agency defying court orders and the courts in effect denying the defendant due process. If one cannot get due process in a court of law when dealing with BATFE than youcan forget any chance of getting a favorable ruling against NFA/'86 MG bans.

Like what Clare Wolfe once stated "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

However I would change that to "It's too late to work within the system, and almost time to shoot the bastards."
 
BATFE claimed M16 Bolt, Carrier, or Hammer in an AR15 = Machinegun

Sounds like some competitors and certain "chart" rifles can be faced with serious legal implications very easily.
 
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