USAF to Pay 230 Million For Texas Church Massacre

[alsaqr]

The USAF failed to report a member who plead guilty to domestic violence to NICS. The man purchased a firearm and murdered 26 people at a Texas church.

"A federal judge in Texas ruled Monday that the Air Force must pay more than $230 million to survivors and victims' families for the church shooting that killed over two dozen people.

The shooter, Devin Patrick Kelley, should not have been able to buy a gun since he received a bad conduct discharge after pleading guilty to two counts of domestic violence.

But the Air Force failed to enter his name into the National Criminal Information Center, and Kelley was able to pass a background check and buy at least two guns because of this failure."

Air Force ordered to pay more than $230 million in 2017 Texas church shooting (msn.com)

 

[dannyd]

What your saying is the US Tax Payers are paying the Victim's.

 

[RETG]

What your saying is the US Tax Payers are paying the Victim's.

Yep!

 

[CapnMac]

US Tax Payers are paying the Victim's

Well, they weren't going to get much from docking some E-4's pay . . .
The problem has deep roots, and needs more than a spritz of RoundUp--but all of that, and this, are grist for a different mill than THR, I'll wager.

The lack of any sort of enforcement for notification in the Brady regulations on those supplying data to NICS has always been a glaring omission in the law.

 

[Archie]

Not that will ever be publicly announced (possibly not even mumbled under the breath) but I would enjoy knowing the buffoon (likely an officer) in the chain of command that allowed such a miscue was relieved of duty.
Permanently.

 

[Gun4Fun90]

Sad that could have bought about 3 F35’s depending on the variant

 

[JCooperfan1911]

That’s a lot of GAU-8 30x173mm HEI rounds.

 

[Ru4real]

The lack of any sort of enforcement for notification in the Brady regulations on those supplying data to NICS has always been a glaring omission in the law.

Yes. And no. Once we are standing on that slippery slope, who keeps us from sliding further? There are no guardians in politics anymore.

Instead, let’s call it what it is, everywhere in this great country. A mental health crisis bad people actively disguise as a gun crisis. The debate we need is about fixing minds.

 

[dranrab]

What your saying is the US Tax Payers are paying the Victim's.

We are paying for government negligence. We always do.

 

[alsaqr]

In 1997 the DOD Inspector General highlighted the failure of the services to report service members to NICS. Little or nothing was done to remedy the situation:

"Back in 1997, the Department of Defense Inspector General issued a report, warning that the military was not sending NICS information that would prevent former service members from acquiring firearms."

Military failing to keep us safe, says lawsuit | Editorial (inquirer.com)

 

[Double Naught Spy]

What your saying is the US Tax Payers are paying the Victim's.

Yep, and they should. Like it or not, the victims suffered as a result of negligence on behalf of a government entity and they deserve the settlement.

 

[Gun4Fun90]

What honestly surprises me is the government let the case go forward in the first place. Weird quirk of law is that in order to sue the government you need to get permissions from the government.

I would assume they would have just put the kibosh on this one. Ya know governmental immunity and all.

 

[TomVA]

A mental health crisis bad people actively disguise as a gun crisis. The debate we need is about fixing minds.

True, but how? We can ban gun glorification movies and TV shows, and offer free psychological counselling, but somehow I don't think it will be effective. With 400,000,000 guns and 330,000,000 people in the USA there is bound to be some loose nuts in the machinery.

At least in this case we can start by fixing the hole in the military NICS reporting system.

 

[illinoisburt]

I haven't seen the actual ruling, however the normal course of these heated cases will see it appealed. I would not be surprised if the award ends up greatly reduced or the case overturned and remanded for another hearing.

 

[alsaqr]

i don't think the USAF will fight the award.

For decades the US military violated the NICS act. About six months after the massacre the military sent NICS the names of over 4,200 former members with dishonorable discharges.

The USAF fessed up to neglecting to send the perps name to NICS but fought the victims and their families and attempted to downplay their negligence. The judge ruled the USAF 60 percent responsible for the massacre.

Military adds thousands to gun ban list after Texas church massacre (nypost.com)

Air Force Fought Families of Texas Church Shooting Victims 'Tooth and Nail,' Lawyer Says (yahoo.com)

 

[Ru4real]

True, but how?

The mental health debate starts with answering “Why is there a mental health crisis?”

We will probably figure out that turning away from religion and strong family units needed “something else” to provide a moral compass for some people (and definitely not all people) and we neglected to strengthen that needed “something else”. Maybe it’s back to religion. Maybe it’s back to strong family. I don’t know, but we have to talk about it for a long time to figure it out.

What is our new moral compass? What binds us together so strongly that one person would never dream of hurting another? We are a long, long ways from jumping to a solution like banning guns in movies or banning guns from people with “perceived mental health issues” that an “authority” arbitrarily decides on.

At least in this case we can start by fixing the hole in the military NICS reporting system.

And once this is done, people will wash their hands and say “There, see? We fixed it.” And of course it won’t be fixed at all. Because it is about minds, not guns.

 

[45CalPal]

The USAF failed to report a member who plead guilty to domestic violence to NICS. The man purchased a firearm and murdered 26 people at a Texas church.

"A federal judge in Texas ruled Monday that the Air Force must pay more than $230 million to survivors and victims' families for the church shooting that killed over two dozen people.

The shooter, Devin Patrick Kelley, should not have been able to buy a gun since he received a bad conduct discharge after pleading guilty to two counts of domestic violence.

But the Air Force failed to enter his name into the National Criminal Information Center, and Kelley was able to pass a background check and buy at least two guns because of this failure."

Air Force ordered to pay more than $230 million in 2017 Texas church shooting (msn.com)

worst part is they actually think that would have prevented this... as if he had no other means of locating and obtaining a firearm. anyone determined to do harm in this manor will eventually find what they need on the street..... where they are always available with a little homework and determination.

 

[Gun4Fun90]

The mental health debate starts with answering “Why is there a mental health crisis?”

We will probably figure out that turning away from religion and strong family units needed “something else” to provide a moral compass for some people (and definitely not all people) and we neglected to strengthen that needed “something else”. Maybe it’s back to religion. Maybe it’s back to strong family. I don’t know, but we have to talk about it for a long time to figure it out.

What is our new moral compass? What binds us together so strongly that one person would never dream of hurting another? We are a long, long ways from jumping to a solution like banning guns in movies or banning guns from people with “perceived mental health issues” that an “authority” arbitrarily decides on.



And once this is done, people will wash their hands and say “There, see? We fixed it.” And of course it won’t be fixed at all. Because it is about minds, not guns.

I mean sure all that but also ya know there is also the fact from the 1960’s through the 1980’s we closed down the vast majority of the psychiatric hospitals in the country, and didn’t really do anything to provide the community based service that were supposed to replace them.

ya know it’s probably both but much more directly linked to shutting down the vast majority of the places people could go to get help for their mental issues.

most of the ones that are left are either very expensive private facilities, or criminal facilities for those who you know have committed crimes.

yes yes the psychic hospitals had problems that needed to be addressed, and it was definitely wrong that we were involuntarily committing people for “female hysteria” (yes this was a thing), but rather than trying to address the issues we just dismantled the system, which could have been okay if we replaced it with a new system like ya know they said they were going to do, but as hindsight is 20/20 we clearly didn’t and left all the mentality ill people with no support (unless they were really rich or criminals).

 

[old lady new shooter]

Yep, and they should. Like it or not, the victims suffered as a result of negligence on behalf of a government entity and they deserve the settlement.

I agree wholeheartedly that the victims deserve the settlement. But who's paying is not who's responsible.

 

[Mauser lover]

The important part is that the court confessed that the rules were broken, and that even the government has responsibilities.

 

[alsaqr]

Very few people actually think that reporting this perp to NICS would have prevented the massacre. IMO: The USAF aided and abetted the perp by failing to report him to NICS. The military Inspector General brought up the failure of the services to report their misfits to NICS several times. But the IG has no enforcement powers.

Off topic:

I mean sure all that but also ya know there is also the fact from the 1960’s through the 1980’s we closed down the vast majority of the psychiatric hospitals in the country, and didn’t really do anything to provide the community based service that were supposed to replace them.

Yes, virtually all the mental health facilities went away. Many of the mentally ill rot in prisons.

In about 1983 i was a corrections officer in WV. In about 1983 i attended a class given by the warden of the WV penitentiary, Donald Bordenkircher. Bordenkircher has a very long and successful resume in the corrections field. He was the overseer of all prisons in Viet Nam , former assistant warden of San Quentin and the man who closed the Abu Ghraib prison.

During our class Bordenkircher had this to say: "They take a mental case, Thorazine his a$$, call him a behavioral case and chunk him into prison."

Somewhere between 16 and 24 percent of US prison inmates are severally mentally ill. In prison the mentally ill are ridiculed, harassed and physically abused.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I agree wholeheartedly that the victims deserve the settlement. But who's paying is not who's responsible.

LOL, everybody's money came from somewhere else. If you are bought a new automobile from any of the major companies, all of which have lost major lawsuits, if you bought a new Remington firearm, if you have eaten at any of countless national or regional food chain establishments, YOU are paying for their lawsuits even though you are not responsible.

 

[jmorris]

… I would enjoy knowing the buffoon (likely an officer) in the chain of command that allowed such a miscue was relieved of duty.
Permanently.

They were probably promoted, in todays military.

I agree wholeheartedly that the victims deserve the settlement. But who's paying is not who's responsible.

I would not be shocked at all if the person who’s responsibility it is to do the paper work was acting (I suppose that would be not acting) under orders above themselves, in the chain of command. They are only “thrown under the bus” when someone needs “to pay”.

Not to mention the people that deserve the settlement are only getting a percentage of it, after the lawyers get their cut…

 

[Archie]

They were probably promoted, in todays military.

No comment. (Out loud.)

I would not be shocked at all if the person who’s responsibility it is to do the paper work was acting (I suppose that would be not acting) under orders above themselves, in the chain of command. They are only “thrown under the bus” when someone needs “to pay”.

I haven't seen where anyone is deemed responsible or being held to account. In general, governmental agencies don't broadcast such information UNLESS there was a conviction for a felony. So, I readily admit I do not know.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I would not be shocked at all if the person who’s responsibility it is to do the paper work was acting (I suppose that would be not acting) under orders above themselves, in the chain of command. They are only “thrown under the bus” when someone needs “to pay”.