Use of "Seated Marine" position: your experience

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twofifty

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There is a thread elsewhere on Marine Corp rifle qualifications that got me thinking about military techniques for position shooting. Since every Marine is trained as a proficient rifleman, and most regard themselves as such, I thought the following would be of interest to many here.

If you've been trained in the Seated Marine technique -either as a civilian or military- I'd like to read your comments on the following.
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A friend stumbled onto an old Marine training manual, from the 1920s iirc, that showed a seated technique that I find incredibly productive in a match:

The Seated Marine:

First you sit on the ground, feet more or less shoulder width apart depending on your body type. A line drawn through both shoulders will point to the target area. If you're flexible keep your feet flat on the ground. If you're not, then your feet will rest more on the boot heels which is not as good.

Now the elbows: The shooter's elbows are not resting atop or right next to the knees. Instead the 'corner' that the arm and forearm make are locked around the outside of the knees. Spreading your knees a bit locks in the arms.

The stock: It is held mostly crossways to the chest. The butt is almost off the shoulder. You dip your head over the action a bit to look through the sights or scope.

The hands. The weak hand clasps the wrist or lower palm edge of the trigger hand. Draw your hands together to firm up the position and the elbow locks around the knees.

The forestock rests on the weak side arm, next to where it locks around the knee.

I've found that a well-practiced Seated Marine as taught in the 1920s is still good in the 21st Century for a sure hit on a 6" target at 200 yards.
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- I'd like to know if any of you Vets were trained in the Seated Marine, and approximately in what years?
- Does anyone here use it in competitions?
- How did/does the technique work for you?
- Is there a better way to get off a very reliable seated 200yd shot?
 
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Interesting position... it almost sounds similar to the position in this pic (from GOOGLE images):

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9nGCM1sM9TdrQyiCOLiGI3ptTXMSMO3QSs2-i_Gy-J1_lSZ5J&t=1.jpg

Since it makes no mention of using a sling, it almost sounds like a hasty, semi-supported position. I'd love to see a copy or pic of that manual if you can dig it up. Also, I may have to break out my 1903 and give it a try!

In today's NRA/CMP rules, such a position today would be considered using artifical support and disallowed.

I cracked out my 'ol copy of GUIDEBOOK FOR MARINES and captured this image of the sitting position, circa 1988.

USMC_sitting.jpg


Nowadays with most service rifle shooters firing the AR15, the crossed-leg position seems to dominate. When I first got into service rifle I was shooting the M1A and was taught the crossed-ankle position as it prevent excessive rocking due to recoil.
 
nbkky, thanks for the pics. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the old training manual - it isn't mine.

That pic is close: The forestock resting on the arm is the same. So is not using the sling. His clasp is hand-to-forearm rather than hand-to-hand. Shoulder lineup to target is the same.

The big difference is that your first pic shows a position that is not symmetric: One elbow is unsupported while the other is on one knee....
rather than having each elbow locked around the corresponding knee.
I think that as a result, the final stance in your 1st pic is a bit taller than the Seated Marine....this can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on ground cover when taking a shot on game.

What really matters is stability and what you have looks very promising.
I will definitely try it out.
edit: the rifle I use is a Rem700...so no mag gets in the way.
 
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Do you mean somehting like this?
brian_johnson_seated.jpg


I don't shoot highpower or anything but I've tried it. If you have a belly, it can hinder the effectiveness of this position, at least it does for me. :p
 
The most extreme sitting position employed while in the Marine Corps was the open knee position with the upper body bent so far forward it allowed the elbows to touch the ground. I’ll admit I was not that flexible to attain the position. Several in my training platoon at PI could.
 
The most extreme sitting position employed while in the Marine Corps was the open knee position with the upper body bent so far forward it allowed the elbows to touch the ground. I’ll admit I was not that flexible to attain the position. Several in my training platoon at PI could.
Once the elbows touch the ground, you are in a modified prone position more than a sitting position and not legal for NRA/CMP or any match using their rules.
 
Once the elbows touch the ground, you are in a modified prone position more than a sitting position and not legal for NRA/CMP or any match using their rules.

My thoughts are 99.9% of the “Beer Belly Shooters” couldn’t attain so therefore it was deemed as an unfair advantage for the position. In 1964 I was a “Flat Belly” and couldn’t get into that position. We were told at the time it was an illegal position but none the less our PMI demonstrated the position and was extremely effective with it.

Neither that position nor NRA/CMP rules translate into the real word of combat shooting. The format stipulated by the NRA/CMP is for playing their game and a game is all that it is.:)
 
First off, thanks nbkky, for your pics, which are now in rotation on my desktop...

And way to go Matt!

I personally use the version in the second pic, more so because I use an AR, and I love it way more than benching in any manner.
 
in my experience,

the position shown in post #4 would be suboptimal for highpower because recoil will move you out of position and you'll spend too much time in rapid fire trying to get back. the traditional seated position shown in the second picture in post #2 puts the shooter more behind the gun and manages recoil a good bit better.... but, is not comfortable for long periods of time, while you could pretty much hold the position in post #4 for an hour if you had to.


For my sniper-type matches, I often practice a position similar to that shown in the first picture in post #2. My rifle has a 28.5" barrel with a suppressor on the end, and it's just way too heavy to hold up using a traditional sitting position. So I put the magazine on my knee and wrap my elbow around it. I don't chicken wing the strong hand though.

The position works well for a single shot, but I can't call my hits with it, and have to rebuild the position after each shot because of recoil
 
Ah Mat, The old classic Field Target position... I've heard that it works very well when shooting
High power rifles also. I've never tried it, I always thought the recoil from the powder burner
would roll you right over. Most of the springer and open shooters use this position.
I shoot spring gun class, but I have been planning on shooting High Power again this
year.
Tony
 
This looks like what the USMC taught me back in 79.

USMC_sitting.jpg


I found it a very accurate position, though a bit uncomfortable at first. Once I got used to it I exploited it as much as I could. I was younger and more flexible then, but I could get my elbows firmly on the ground with the short magazines in the rifle. I shot a 242+ on the KD courses.

Nowadays with my old bones and beer belly I sit more upright with the knees as a prop.
brian_johnson_seated.jpg
 
rope loop to steady knees

One of the guys uses a short loop of poly rope. Sized right, the loop drops around the knees keeping them apart but steady for the elbows or forearms to rest on. I tried it and it works.
 
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