Used bolt action .223

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Bartojc

Bartojc

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I've been looking for a bolt action .223 for a while, I should say casually looking. I am familiar with the likes of the Ruger American, Tikka, Weatherby Vanguard, CZ, and Savage Axis. Lately I've been eyeing the used racks, and I suddenly realized I don't know much about older used rifles. :)

I'd like something to shoot heavier bullets, 69gr or heavier. So, I realize I want a higher twist for that 1:9 or better ? Other than twist rate what should I be looking for used ? What should I stay away from ? It would be used for varmints, and targets out to 500 yards. Budget for used would be ~$400-$500 or so using the logic if I went more I could just buy a new Weatherby,Tikka, or CZ.

There are a couple different Savages on the rack at the local shop. What's with the Savage model numbers ? I can't make heads or tails out of them, they seem to change, and then there are the special Cabelas/Bass Pro only models.

Thanks,

-Jeff
 
I used to know the savage number jargon, but im out of the loop on them at this point....the big ones are 3 digits are long action, 2 digits are short.....at least as far as the new roundbacks go. Theres variations of older savages im not familiar enough with to comment on.
They should all be at least 1-9 twist, dont think any of the savages I've seen (2000ish+) have been slower than that.
couple of the less common, but still often available and at lower prices, are the Remington 783s, Marlin XS-7s, Stevens 200s....I know im forgetting at least one or two others that deserve mention, but i cant remember right now.
 
A friend of mine just bought his 2nd Savage Axis ll in .223 . He is big into predator hunting . The first one that bought was setup with a red light . Then he bought a thermal scope . He liked the way the first one was setup and the rifle so much that he bought another Axis ll just like the first one .
 
early .223s had 1/14 and 1/12 twist in bolt guns .
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Not just early, but until fairly recently most were that slow. You're going to have to buy something pretty recently manufactured to find an 8 or 9 twist 223 in a bolt gun. AR's have been made with 7, 8, and 9 twist barrels for sometime. And until things got crazy you could have found an AR easier within your budget that met your criteria.
 
LoonWulf said:
I used to know the savage number jargon, but im out of the loop on them at this point....the big ones are 3 digits are long action, 2 digits are short.....at least as far as the new roundbacks go. Theres variations of older savages im not familiar enough with to comment on.
They should all be at least 1-9 twist, dont think any of the savages I've seen (2000ish+) have been slower than that.
couple of the less common, but still often available and at lower prices, are the Remington 783s, Marlin XS-7s, Stevens 200s....I know im forgetting at least one or two others that deserve mention, but i cant remember right now.
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The 3 digit and 2 digit thing is generally true, but even that I've seen some exceptions to as annoying as that is. I love Savage but man can they be frustrating when you're trying to identify a rifle and all.

To the OP, as far as the model numbers the Savage 10 and 11 are built on the same action. At least recently the 10 has been their "law enforcement/tactical" line and tends to have heavier barrels and just more "tactical" feature in general. The 11 is more of the "hunting" line. The 12 is also built on the same action I believe and is advertised as more of a "varmint" rifle, sharing the heavier barrels tendency with the 10.

The 25 is their lightweight line, don't know much about it myself other than the fact they're supposed to be lighter and the action is different.

The Axis/Axis II is their budget line (used to be called the Edge). They're a solid rifle, if a bit cruder than their more expensive brethren. The bolt on mine is actually surprisingly smoother. The stock trigger on the Axis is pretty bad but can be helped alot with a spring and shim kit from M*CARBO. The Accutrigger on the Axis II is pretty good especially for the price IMO. The bolt throw is 90 degrees, which can be annoying for ensuring scope clearance. Before I mounted night vision on my Axis, I had to get X-high rings to make sure the bolt handle didn't rub on the eyepiece of my scope.

With the recent rifles, I believe everything above the Axis comes with the Accutrigger though I could be wrong on that. The Accutrigger is my favorite stock trigger, though full disclosure I don't have a vast array of experience to compare it to.
 
jmr40 said:
Not just early, but until fairly recently most were that slow. You're going to have to buy something pretty recently manufactured to find an 8 or 9 twist 223 in a bolt gun. AR's have been made with 7, 8, and 9 twist barrels for sometime. And until things got crazy you could have found an AR easier within your budget that met your criteria.
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I had a Factory 1/7 twist 25 years ago , that is why I said early to save on nit picking and confusing the issue . To some,25 years ago is not recent.
 
You didn't mention the Howa Mini, which as you probably know has the same action as the Weatherby and is priced cheap enough to afford another stock if you don't like the factory Hogue. Factory spec is a 1:8 twist: https://www.howausa.com/rifles/mini-action-rifle/

I don't own a Howa -- I went the pretty route and have a full-stock .223 CZ:

CZ527223.jpg

Values during panic pricing seem pretty localized, so I doubt what I'm seeing here will help you much.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
You didn't mention the Howa Mini, which as you probably know has the same action as the Weatherby and is priced cheap enough to afford another stock if you don't like the factory Hogue. Factory spec is a 1:8 twist: https://www.howausa.com/rifles/mini-action-rifle/

I don't own a Howa -- I went the pretty route and have a full-stock .223 CZ:

View attachment 992223

Values during panic pricing seem pretty localized, so I doubt what I'm seeing here will help you much.
Click to expand...
I have that same CZ , I really like it . I have customs,Tikka, Remingtons , etc . Great rifles but the CZ just has soul .
 
I was in the same boat recently. I wanted a "trainer" rifle. Heavy barrel, 1:9 twist, good accurate rifle for extended range sessions.

I went with a Savage Varmint. They did simplify their naming conventions now, everything is the 3 digit code. I don't know if that makes it simpler or more cloudy. The model I picked up is a 110 Varmint, a few years ago, would have been a model 10 Varmint.

https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=57066
 
Re: What I meant by older. Not really sure. I guess I mean something before any of the budget Rugers, Axis, etc came about. When was that about 2005 ? Nothing against them, I own a couple and may own more. If I found a better used rifle for the same price as the budget rifles I might rather choose that route. How old is old, there is a deep question.

Anything with a Howa action really entices me. I don't see a lot of them on the used racks. Maybe no one wants to get rid of them.

-Jeff
 
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My bolt action is a charles daly mini mauser (aka: remington 799, interarms mini mk x, etc. It's made by zastava.) Nice blueing, rough action, my barrel is a 1:12 twist and shoots a 50 grn quite well, but 55's open up, and 62's are all over the place. It was cheap, but the cz is a better gun in every way.
and the ruger american ranch in 223 has a 1:8 twist. We have one in blackout, and it's a really nice compact package. I cannot tell you how bad I want a left hand one in 6.5 grendel.
 
I posted my experience on here with 223 rifles a few months back-

Ruger American Ranch 1:8- Early model, shot terrible even with match ammo. Action is nice, trigger is okay, stock is tupperware garbage. A lot of people don't like the mags. I wouldn't go with an AR mag as it limits you but may be worth it if you are shooting mag length compatible bullets. 5.56 compatible.

Tikka Sporter 1:8- Pricey rifle but it will shoot 1/2 MOA or better out of the box with my reloads. Most Tikka's that I have experience with shoot really well. Mags only allow for 2.260 length ammo. If you want to shoot the long heavy bullets, you need to modify the mags, buy aftermarket, or single load with a single shot follower. I got lucky and found a guy that was getting rid of his 3 that had been modified. Never tried 5.56 loads.

Remington 783 1:9- I paid $250 after rebate. The first one shot terrible but the replacement Remington sent wlll hover around 0.6 MOA with my reloads. Action is smooth and I like the trigger, magazine is well made, stock is probably the best of all the budget rifles. They make them with 16 and 22" barrels. It will run 5.56 ammo without any issues.

Howa Mini Action with Heavy barrel 1:8- fun little gun. Shoots 3/4 MOA. If you want something for serious target/precision use, this wouldn't be my first choice. It does not like warm loads so definitely no 5.56.

Remington 700 LTR 1:9- I wish this had a better magazine and a 1:8 twist but I love the way it shoots and handles with the 20" barrel.

Mossberg Predator 1:9- This gun shot fantastic with 68/69 match bullets, 1/2 MOA or better. Action was sloppy and the plastic trigger guard was garbage. Laminated stock was really nice. It didn't feed reliably from the original or any other AR mag I put in it.

Remington 700 16.5" SPS Tactical 1:9- I picked this up cheap and was going to build it into something but may just keep it to way it is. I put a 1-6X scope on it and shoot steel out to 600. The internal Remington 700 magazine doesn't work that well with 223 in my experience.

Remington 700 Remage setup with a 22" 1:7 stainless barrel- I bought the action and had the barrel installed then put it in a Magpul hunter stock. The magazine system worked great and there is a lot of aftermarket support for the AICS mags, but I could never get the best accuracy from the stock. There is just too much plastic in my opinion. I ended up bedding it in a Boyd's and it shoots much better. It likes the 75 Amax and 80 ELD, and will hold sub MOA out to 675 yards, and does well on windy days.

I've never owned a Savage but I have shot them and they have all been good shooters. The actions are a little big and clunky for my taste.

I really wish Bergara would make a B-14 HMR in 223, with a 22" 7.5 twist threaded barrel and sell them for $800. Another option could be just a barreled action for $500 and let the user choose their own stock.
 
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MarshallDodge said:
Another option could be just a barreled action for $500 and let the user choose their own stock.
Click to expand...

I thought about this. Other than Brownells where can one get a barreled action for $500 or less ? I'd likely end up with a Howa in this case, but it could be a year before we see any in .223. I guess any used .223 can be a barreled action, its just some with a crappy stock attached to them. :)

Searching local places for new as well the only options I've seen on the shelves are Ruger and Savage, and most of the time NOT in .223.
It may be a year before there is any choice for new as well.

-Jeff
 
I used to own a Remington Model 78 Sportsman bolt action rifle. Chambered for the .223 Remington.

The 78 Sportsman was as cheap as you could make a remington 700 with rough finish, stocked in birch with a blind magazine(ADL) and usually never fitted for open sights (I might be wrong about sights)
 
Savage Model 340 series E Bolt action in .223 Remington.

Was a utility model, it wont win any beautuy contests but I can say it shoots well outside its weight class (utility rifle with premium rifle accuracy)

2.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg
 
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I own a mossberg mvp in .223. It will consistenly shoot sub MOA groups with the right handloads. I really don't have any complaints about it.
 
I have a Savage .223 with a 1in 9 twist which shoots great with 69 grain bullets. It has a 26” fluted barrel.
 
I have a couple of .223 Rem bolt-actions that shoot sub 1/2 MOA with handloads. I pillar-bedded the actions and floated the barrels. One needed a new firing pin/mainspring that made a big difference in accuracy.
 
Just went through this myself. New guns list barrel twist. Older used guns, not often listed, so assume 1:12 or slower. Be careful. I’ve seen lots of original Axis listed as 1:9, but I’m pretty sure they are in fact not 1:9, as one example.

For new guns, for not listed twist, the Savage Axis II and T/C Venture II are both 1:9 which is ideal for 69 grain (Hornady, Nosler, etc.) or 70 grain (Speer SP) from 20 inch barrel AR or 22 inch barrel bolt, out to 600 yards in my experience.
 
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Howa 1500 223 Varmint fluted barrel, only negative of the one I have is it did not have a threaded barrel. It is MOA or better accurate, a little heavy to carry around all day, but with a bipod, I really like it. 1/9 twist and it will shoot 69s just fine, I have not tried anything heavier.
 
I would expect many of the older .223 bolt actions have barrels that were rifled and throated for varmint weight bullets (45 to 55 grains) before 62 to 69 grain bullets in .223 were common.

I am 73 so to me older is OLDER, like before NATO wildcatted 5.56x45mm spex beyond .223 Rem SAAMI spex.
 
I have a CZ455 with two barrels, the one that came with the (hardly-used) rifle is a .223 Rem, but I bought a new .17HMR heavy/fluted barrel (shown). I like the weight-forward feel with the heavy barrel and it shoots very well.

Correction 4/17/2021: .22 WMR, not .223 Rem. (Thanks for keeping this old guy straight.)

IMG_4699.JPG
 
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