Used "upgraded" gun prices

[JRWhit]

Perhap I'm wrong for thinking this way. I browse classifieds for used handguns and always run accross the inevitable description. Used blah blah with upgrades. The gun will have a number of aftermarket parts including triggers, barrel sights, grips, exc....
and will have an asking price several hundred dollars over NIB MSRP. I can understand having a reputable shop upgrade a factory pistol as there are many armorers that do it quite nicely, but just any joe shade tree gun smith?

In my opinion the cost of x trigger kit was offset when the owner tore down his pistol and installed it himself. Don't get me wrong, I have been known to add accessories to my own pistols before but have never considered it to have increased the value.
How do you all handle this with your own firearms, and with potential purchases of used firearms?

 

[JTQ]

I'm the same way.

While I'm primarily a 1911 shooter, one gun I avoid is used 1911's. There are just too many people that think they are pistol smith's who are not. Especially since the "plug and play" Glock's hit the market, the number of people that think they have the skills to work on the 1911 has increased exponentially. Almost all of them are wrong, they don't have the skills to work on 1911's. They then try and sell these non, or partially working guns to unsuspecting buyers looking for a "custom" gun.

 

[1911 guy]

Have you ever owned a hot rod car? Lots of folks have and those same people will tell you the same thing: No matter what you're done to it, it still just an old car. Unless, of course, you find that certain buyer who wants what you've done to it. Guns are the same thing. Unless you actually want the specific mods done to a firearm, it's just a used gun.

 

[mattk]

I also hesitate to buy an 1911 that has been customized.
I once bought a used Colt Combat Elite with a "match" trigger.
The sear was very much over cut and dangerous. Luckily I have developed a habit of load only one round when firing a used gun for the first time.
Glad I did with that colt. It would have been full auto

 

[mgmorden]

You're spot on. A lot of times adding parts - even though it cost the owner money - actually reduces the resale value of the gun. To many people who want a stock gun they just view that as an expense to buy it and return it to stock.

Bottom line: never expect to get anything more for what you added to the gun. I find it hilarious when someone will make a completely reasonable offer of say $375 for a gun and the seller response with "I've got that much worth of parts in it !?!?!!". Not the buyers problem. The gun is still worth whatever it's worth.

 

[jmr40]

I've mildly "customized" a handful of guns, but always kept the factory parts and I've never done anything that couldn't be put back to factory form. You can do better selling the gun and aftermarket parts separately.

 

[OneSevenDeuce]

The additional parts only add value to the gun if the person buying it wants those parts on it. If you plan to uninstall the parts and put in something else, or return it to factory condition, all the accessories in the world aren't going to make it worth more to you. The same concept applies to people selling ammo, or holsters WITH the gun. Well, what if I don't want your ammo or holster?

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Sights, grips, holsters, and magazines are the only things for which I would consider paying or asking extra. Anything that modifies the action of the gun would require an itemized work order sheet from a gunsmith whose work is known to me. I might consider a variance from that rule as long as the factory-original parts in factory-original condition were also included and the seller was someone with a good reputation on one of the gun boards I am on.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I think so to.

I'm a casual SKS collector and you wouldn't believe how much people are asking for there SKS's rifles that have been "bubba'd" and have a ton of cheap accessories added to the gun.

 

[WC145]

I like custom handguns and have bought a number of older custom 1911s and revolvers. However, almost all the guns I've bought have been worked by quality name 'smiths/shops like Behlert, Clark, Krebs, Mag-na-port. I avoid bubba'd stuff and get as much background info, epics, etc as I can so that I'm confident about what I'm getting. I expect to pay a premihm for these over an unmodified gun but the prices are generally far less than what it would cost have that same gun built again, if you coild find someone to replicste the work. Haven't been disappointed yet.

 

[JRWhit]

I like custom handguns and have bought a number of older custom 1911s and revolvers. However, almost all the guns I've bought have been worked by quality name 'smiths/shops like Behlert, Clark, Krebs, Mag-na-port. I avoid bubba'd stuff and get as much background info, epics, etc as I can so that I'm confident about what I'm getting. Haven't been disappointed yet.

Not to be misunderstood, I enjoy the custom market too, but wouldn't pay extra for stuff thrown in by the average user. I would pay extra to a certified armorer for certified work but not for aftermarket stuff thrown in by the average shooter. Same for the car market. Having done a lot of street racing in my youth, it was well known that I would never see a small percentage of what I put into a car, back out of it.

 

[Ed Ames]

I don't see it the way you do.

1) There is nothing in the ads you are quoting to imply who the parts were installed by. You leap to "shade tree" with no evidence.

2) "shade tree" "thrown in" and "average user" are loaded and meaningless terms. Either the part is installed correctly or it isn't. There is no magic involved.

3) There are many legitimate upgrades that require minimal skill to install. E.g. aftermarket grips, extra magazines, most springs, trigger assemblies for many guns, even barrels for many firearms.

4) What you are suggesting is that the owner should tear down and re-install the factory parts for max resale value. This leaves you with at least one owner tear-down (maybe two, if they installed the parts themselves), but more to the point it leaves you contradicting yourself: someone working on the gun once to install aftermarket parts makes you think the value is reduced; someone working on the gun a second time to install factory parts makes you think the value is increased. But the work is probably the same.

A more sensible way to look at it:

The value of the gun (or car, or chair) is what you are willing to pay to have it. If you would buy a CZ75 for $539, and pay Cajun Gun Works $426 to install their "Pro-Package" of upgrades, plus pay an FFL $30 to ship the gun to CGW for the upgrade, then the upgraded CZ75 is worth $995. A used version which has had 10% of its service life consumed is presumably worth about $895.

If, on the other hand, you would never pay to have CGW install an upgrade package, that exact same gun (with upgrades) should be worth at most $480. If you would pay to have the upgrades set back to factory, it may be worth $480-(cost-to-return-to-factory) to you.

No need to make assumptions or denigrate trees. Just look at the actual condition (which you should be doing before you buy) relative to a condition you will pay to attain.

 

[JDR]

I was burned once on a used CZ-75B Compact that had been messed up by a Dremel-wielding hack; luckily the LGS where I bought it gave me full credit value towards a NIB Gen3 G-17. This soured me on CZs for years until I bought a NIB 75B last year. Ever since then, whenever I'm buying a used gun (most of mine were bought used), I always negotiate the right to have the gun evaluated by a reputable local gunsmith and if anything is not right, the LGS either pays for the repair, gives me full credit or an outright refund. This is absolutely worth the $40.00 this guy charges to disassemble, inspect, clean & oil a gun that could be screwed up internally! I don't risk my personal safety on a firearm that may have been improperly modified.

 

[JRH6856]

Calling them "upgrades" is a bit of a reach as whether or not anything is improved is generally a matter of opinion. What they are is modifications and that is a matter of fact.

 

[JRWhit]

I don't see it the way you do.

1) There is nothing in the ads you are quoting to imply who the parts were installed by. You leap to "shade tree" with no evidence.

2) "shade tree" "thrown in" and "average user" are loaded and meaningless terms. Either the part is installed correctly or it isn't. There is no magic involved.

3) There are many legitimate upgrades that require minimal skill to install. E.g. aftermarket grips, extra magazines, most springs, trigger assemblies for many guns, even barrels for many firearms.

4) What you are suggesting is that the owner should tear down and re-install the factory parts for max resale value. This leaves you with at least one owner tear-down (maybe two, if they installed the parts themselves), but more to the point it leaves you contradicting yourself: someone working on the gun once to install aftermarket parts makes you think the value is reduced; someone working on the gun a second time to install factory parts makes you think the value is increased. But the work is probably the same.

A more sensible way to look at it:

The value of the gun (or car, or chair) is what you are willing to pay to have it. If you would buy a CZ75 for $539, and pay Cajun Gun Works $426 to install their "Pro-Package" of upgrades, plus pay an FFL $30 to ship the gun to CGW for the upgrade, then the upgraded CZ75 is worth $995. A used version which has had 10% of its service life consumed is presumably worth about $895.

If, on the other hand, you would never pay to have CGW install an upgrade package, that exact same gun (with upgrades) should be worth at most $480. If you would pay to have the upgrades set back to factory, it may be worth $480-(cost-to-return-to-factory) to you.

No need to make assumptions or denigrate trees. Just look at the actual condition (which you should be doing before you buy) relative to a condition you will pay to attain.

I see the misinterpretation. Not to say that an owner tearing one down makes it worthless,but that it doesn't take a 400$ gun and magically make it an 800$ gun.
Like an 8 year old glock 17 that has a ghost trigger and lone wolf barrel also aged and the seller decides it must be worth 750$
Or even this http://www.armslist.com/posts/32544...handguns-for-sale--glock-17-gen-3-with-extras
Does a couple of extras that are used warrant another 150$ over nib price?

 

[Speedo66]

Be it a car, a motorcycle, or a gun, I prefer to start with stock. I don't want to take a chance with something that's been Bubba'd.

If it's going to be Bubba'd, I'd prefer the Bubba to be me.

 

[Ed Ames]

Does a couple of extras that are used warrant another 150$ over nib price?

I didn't look at your examples, but in the example I gave a single used "extra" would make the gun worth ~$300 more than NIB...if you want that upgrade. If you don't, the value to you is lower. "Worth" in the sense you are using ("x is worth $y") it is the highest value (amount a buyer is willing to pay) encountered during the time the item was offered for sale.

 

[marnesoldier]

What kills me is the guys who duracoat a firearm and up charge the used price based upon that. To me anytime you spray paint a gun, its value drops lower then its average used value.

 

[silicosys4]

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11931...-rifle/century-arms-international-sks-7.62x39

You mean like this?

Laugh and keep looking
I am not a fan of custom work on used guns that I can't confirm as being done right.
I have a few with modifications that were there before I got them that I am ok with, but for the most part I want a plain gun as close to as it left the factory as possible.
To me a modded gun with no provenance is worth less to the tune of costs to return to original configuration.

 

[Teachu2]

I ran across a Bubba'd bargain a few years back - a Series 70 Govt Model that had Novak target sights and Bubba-porting. It sat on consignment at a LGS for about 18 months, getting cheaper and cheaper. I finally bought it for $229 + DROS and sales tax, figuring I could always use it for a dedicated .22 with a Kimber slide.
The porting was through the slide, bushing, and barrel, and was doubly annoying, as it messed up the sight picture and caught a heap of fouling. Had to clean it often or it would stop short of battery. I ran it with a Kimber .22 slide for a couple of years, then decided to fit a new barrel and bushing. With a little help from members here, I fit a match barrel and bushing and ended up with a fantastic shooter. I left the ports in the slide, and have a wonderfully accurate, kinda ugly 1911 that I'll take anywhere and really enjoy shooting. It's surprised a few guys....

 

[Twiki357]

I don’t know if grips are considered customizing, but I like older Smith & Wesson revolvers. I’m so sick and tired of having to spend extra cash to get rid of the recycled tires masquerading as grips. I wish that when someone has to but those on a gun that they would keep the original wood grips for when they sell it.

 

[JRWhit]

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11931...-rifle/century-arms-international-sks-7.62x39

You mean like this?

Laugh and keep looking
I am not a fan of custom work on used guns that I can't confirm as being done right.
I have a few with modifications that were there before I got them that I am ok with, but for the most part I want a plain gun as close to as it left the factory as possible.
To me a modded gun with no provenance is worth less to the tune of costs to return to original configuration.

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. Never though Id see SKS and 900 in the same paragraph.

 

[19-3Ben]

Sights, grips, holsters, and magazines are the only things for which I would consider paying or asking extra.

Exactly correct in my experience. A magazine that was bought new for $30 will add $15-20 value on a gun. Night sights that were bought new for $100 will add around $50-60.
Holsters, it seems have much less resale value compared to new prices but they do still add some value.

When selling used, i've found that I get more value out of a holster selling it separately.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Holsters, it seems have much less resale value compared to new prices but they do still add some value.

I see a lot of packages like that for sale on the boards, which makes sense, if someone comes up with a carry kit that didn't end up working out, or if they upgraded or switched guns.

I've found that having good quality holsters will help me sell quicker, though. Even having a Crossbreed Supertuck seems to make things go a little quicker, and for a Milt Sparks or TT Gunleather or Alessi holster, I'm usually willing to pay a premium.

 

[OneSevenDeuce]

See, the thing about that is that for someone like me I generally don't want ANY holster that is being sold with the gun. I have settled on the holster brand I like (after several boxes full of other manufacturers) and anything else will usually just end up in one of said boxes.