Bringsteen
Member
I know about the dangers of using commercially loaded .308 rounds in a rifle chambered in 7.62x51. What about reloading 7.62x51 brass using .308 dies and then shooting them out of a civilian .308? Is this practical?
Using 7.62 NATO BRASS in a Civilian .308
- Thread starter Bringsteen
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Yep. The only things to worry about are that the brass is thicker so you will need to use less powder to get the same pressure/performance as you would get from a "regular" load in civilian brass and that you'll have to remove the primer crimp. One other thing - all the 7.62x51 brass I've seen has been fired through machine guns and resizing usually takes a lot of work. I have to do it in steps or the brass gets stuck in my dies.
I'd say if you have a lot of 7.62 brass it would be worth it to get the tools and use it. If you only have a few casings it will probably be more trouble than its worth.
I'd say if you have a lot of 7.62 brass it would be worth it to get the tools and use it. If you only have a few casings it will probably be more trouble than its worth.
Bringsteen
Member
So, this is something you actually do? How is the feeding? How is the accuracy? After you true the primer pocket, you have to do more than one sizing step?
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
nicholst55
Member
A lot depends on the origin of your brass with regard to sizing. If it's machine gun-fired brass, then I use a Small Base sizer the first time to insure that it will fit the chamber of my several .308 rifles. After the first reload I use my normal FL sizer die.
Many High Power rifle competitors use Lake City (USGI) brass for their match loads, so accuracy is more than adequate for that. You aren't likely to win a benchrest match with LC brass, but then a .308 isn't really competitive in short range (200 and 300 yard) BR competition anyway.
Reloaded 7.62 brass should function just as well as anything else in your rifle(s). What you will need to be alert for is incipient case head separation caused by the ammo having been initially fired in a machine gun. MG chambers tend to be long and loose when compared to rifle chambers, and the brass expands to seal the chamber upon firing.
Straighten out a paper clip and make a short 90 degree bend in the tip. I file that part to a point. Insert the 'L' shaped portion of your paper clip into the case mouth and scrape it against the inside as you withdraw it. If it catches, generally about 1/2" above the case head, that brass is about to separate and you should scrap it. While this is a tedious task to perform on 1,000 or more pieces of brass, you only have to do it once (as a rule).
Using military brass isn't difficult, and that's how a lot of us have financed our hobby over the past several decades. Just be aware of what is involved in the use of military brass. Most of the tedious stuff like primer pocket swaging and checking for head separations is a one-time deal, and after that you simply process the brass as you would any other type of brass - keeping it's peculiarities in mind.
Good luck!
Many High Power rifle competitors use Lake City (USGI) brass for their match loads, so accuracy is more than adequate for that. You aren't likely to win a benchrest match with LC brass, but then a .308 isn't really competitive in short range (200 and 300 yard) BR competition anyway.
Reloaded 7.62 brass should function just as well as anything else in your rifle(s). What you will need to be alert for is incipient case head separation caused by the ammo having been initially fired in a machine gun. MG chambers tend to be long and loose when compared to rifle chambers, and the brass expands to seal the chamber upon firing.
Straighten out a paper clip and make a short 90 degree bend in the tip. I file that part to a point. Insert the 'L' shaped portion of your paper clip into the case mouth and scrape it against the inside as you withdraw it. If it catches, generally about 1/2" above the case head, that brass is about to separate and you should scrap it. While this is a tedious task to perform on 1,000 or more pieces of brass, you only have to do it once (as a rule).
Using military brass isn't difficult, and that's how a lot of us have financed our hobby over the past several decades. Just be aware of what is involved in the use of military brass. Most of the tedious stuff like primer pocket swaging and checking for head separations is a one-time deal, and after that you simply process the brass as you would any other type of brass - keeping it's peculiarities in mind.
Good luck!
USSR
Member
Bringsteen,
Buy yourself some LC Match brass and eliminate having to contend with a primer pocket crimp and the possibility that the brass was fired in a machinegun.
Don
Buy yourself some LC Match brass and eliminate having to contend with a primer pocket crimp and the possibility that the brass was fired in a machinegun.
Don
dmftoy1
Member
I use it in my savage. To process it I full length resize with a small base die the first time and swage the primer pockets to remove any crimp. It's then trimmed to length and loaded up. After that I just neck size and reload it. (after inspecting, trimming etc.)
Have a good one,
Dave
Have a good one,
Dave
cpttango30
Member
I do it all the time. Your problem is military brass is not as consistant as commerical brass.
I use milsurp brass for plinking ammo. I about to buy some Laupu brass.
I use milsurp brass for plinking ammo. I about to buy some Laupu brass.
If the source of GI Brass is suspect ( a fellow should use a Small Base Sizer for the first resizing ) in that was fired in a MG.
If the brass is M118SB and fired in M14/bolt gun then a FL die ought to do the trick. I shot a lot of M118 brass that was fired out of M14 etc and it was good brass just do normal case prep.
If the brass is M118LR and fired in M14/bolt gun then a FL die ought to do the trick. See above
If the brass is M852 which probably never saw use in a MG then FL die would do the trick. The concern here is the knurling is over the place where incipient case head seperations might occur.....
But, if it was M80 ball then sure as crap stinks it was fired in MG.
If the brass is M118SB and fired in M14/bolt gun then a FL die ought to do the trick. I shot a lot of M118 brass that was fired out of M14 etc and it was good brass just do normal case prep.
If the brass is M118LR and fired in M14/bolt gun then a FL die ought to do the trick. See above
If the brass is M852 which probably never saw use in a MG then FL die would do the trick. The concern here is the knurling is over the place where incipient case head seperations might occur.....
But, if it was M80 ball then sure as crap stinks it was fired in MG.
I use regular FL dies and haven't had any problems. All you have to do is size one, trim it, and then make sure it fits your rifle OK.
If it does, why worry about sizing? Once it fits there isn't any reason to worry about making it smaller - all that does is work the brass more than necessary.
Granted, some rifles may need SB dies.
But I'm glad mine never have because it takes enough effort just to size them with regular dies.
For sizing, I have found that trying to size the brass in one motion either results in a whole lot of strength needed (I actually started tearing the top off my bench once doing this). Either that, or the casings get stuck in the dies. So I take the expander out for the first run through and then go back and size them all again with it.
After basically being sized twice, I haven't had any problems with brass not fitting my FAL.
Then again, it is a FAL.
If it does, why worry about sizing? Once it fits there isn't any reason to worry about making it smaller - all that does is work the brass more than necessary.
Granted, some rifles may need SB dies.
But I'm glad mine never have because it takes enough effort just to size them with regular dies.
For sizing, I have found that trying to size the brass in one motion either results in a whole lot of strength needed (I actually started tearing the top off my bench once doing this). Either that, or the casings get stuck in the dies. So I take the expander out for the first run through and then go back and size them all again with it.
After basically being sized twice, I haven't had any problems with brass not fitting my FAL.
Then again, it is a FAL.
USSR
Member
FWIW, the reason that SB dies are usually needed to resize machinegun fired brass is, the web portion of the brass is blown out beyond specs, and regular FL sizing dies don't reduce that portion of a case enough. Once you get the web part of the case back in spec, subsequent reloading after firing it in a rifle only requires a regular FL die. I shoot LC Match brass and pulldown brass just so I don't have to contend with this.
Don
Don
Don, that is great advice, and I expect you have buckets of once fired LC Match brass. However, that stuff is getting real hard to find.
Just checked Bartlett's sight, http://www.gibrass.com/brass.html, no LC, also checked Pat's http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm, no LC.
A guy has to almost wait for an estate sale of some old competition shooter who hoarded brass, to find some.
Oh, how you feeling? Blood pressure OK?
USSR
Member
SlamFire1,
Yeah, I've got a bucket or two. I bought 20,000 pieces of once-fired LC M118LR this Spring and sold about 18,000 pieces. It is out there, you've just got to look.
Don
Yeah, I've got a bucket or two. I bought 20,000 pieces of once-fired LC M118LR this Spring and sold about 18,000 pieces. It is out there, you've just got to look.
Don
Master Blaster
Member
http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2317389&showprevnext=1
www.scharch.com
Best prices for military brass, 1x fired, polished, roll sized, decaped, and swaged and trimmed.
Follow the directions in your reloading manual.
www.scharch.com
Best prices for military brass, 1x fired, polished, roll sized, decaped, and swaged and trimmed.
Follow the directions in your reloading manual.
rc109a
Member
I have been using both MG fired as well as M14 fired brass for over two years now. I have been using the Lee F/L sizing die with no problems. I have done almost 5,000 cases with no seperation. I just make sure they are well lubricated prior to re-sizing. The only pain is with removing the crimp. Once that is done they are great. They cycle in my friends AR-10 with issues. The accuracy is outstanding for what we do (no benchrest). I have loaded one batch over 10 times and they still work great. I just got another batch of 10,000 and will start working on that group as well. Headstamps are LC74, 90, 94, 96, 02.
USSR
Member
rc109a,
With that much brass to decrimp, I sure hope you have the Dillon 600 Super Swage.
Don
chemist308
Member
Hey, here's a noob question: With the thicker brass, wont the 7.62 last longer, giving us more bang for our reloading buck?
USSR
Member
Yep.
Don
rc109a
Member
USSR
I do it all by hand. I just do about 100-200 a day. I have been giving this stuff away to my friends for a year or so now. I gave some to a guy here on THR, but got stiffed on the shipping charges. I won't make that mistake again...lol I have about 1k sitting aorund deprimed, decrimped, FL sized and trimmed. Just in case...
I do it all by hand. I just do about 100-200 a day. I have been giving this stuff away to my friends for a year or so now. I gave some to a guy here on THR, but got stiffed on the shipping charges. I won't make that mistake again...lol I have about 1k sitting aorund deprimed, decrimped, FL sized and trimmed. Just in case...
Roccobro
Member
rc109a- Let me know how much it was, I'll pay it. Anybody who is "giving away" something like that doesn't deserve to be stiffed.
No, I don't need any .308 brass. I've got 5k+ surplus rounds and not one gun (yet) that fires the stuff.
Justin
No, I don't need any .308 brass. I've got 5k+ surplus rounds and not one gun (yet) that fires the stuff.
Justin
rc109a
Member
Roccobro-thanks, but its water under the bridge. Bringsteen-The LC brass lasts much longer then the Winchester or remington I used before. It takes some work and I am sure it is harder on the dies. I have yet to have one slipt or seperate. I am still new to this and I am sure that it might happen when I least expect it. Do you actually have the brass or are you thinking about getting some?
Bringsteen
Member
"Do you actually have the brass or are you thinking about getting some?"
Well, after thinking about it more and getting some good advice from more experienced board members, I will probably just buy civilian .308 brass in bulk. I will only be shooting it out of civilian rifles, so it may not be worth the hassle to go with the 7.62 stuff.
Well, after thinking about it more and getting some good advice from more experienced board members, I will probably just buy civilian .308 brass in bulk. I will only be shooting it out of civilian rifles, so it may not be worth the hassle to go with the 7.62 stuff.
stubbicatt
Member
The MG brass tends not to separate at the fire ring but rather about midway up the case body.
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