Using a flask

[Renegade Revenger]

I am new to black powder and have a question about the use of the flask.
When you go out for a round of shooting for a day and you
fill up your flask with black powder or a Pryo, 777 etc once your done
do you need to return what is left in the flask to the original conatiner ?
I was wondering if leaving powder in the flask in the shooters box etc is bad
or dangeous some how...I guess I was also wondering if once removed and in the flask is it a good idea to return the unused portion in the flask back to the can so to speak.

Want to thank everyone for the fantastic info gathered on these BP threads.
I feel like I am ready to actually go out in start shooting BP now.

Ohh one more question...can someone explain the loading 5 rounds and the hammer/split seating on a non cap nipple..I thought also i saw someone in a mag or such tell about a place between the cyl holes that have a special place to set the hammer so its not on a nipple or such...
I understand its for safety etc same a s a revolver or such but not sure aout the comment about a place to set hammer on etc.

thanks

 

[bender]

I leave my powder in my flask, as I'm sure most people do. Just remember what you have in there.

Some revolvers have little "pins" sitting between the chambers, where a little cutout in the hammer can rest, so that the hammer stays between chambers.

 

[Renegade Revenger]

flask re.

thanks..good point about remembering whats in the flask.

Did not think about that to be honest. I will proabbly be using the pryo stuff vs black powder I heard its somewhat difficult to get these days.
I may look around I am near a very old gun shop (back into the 50's if I recall) they may carry the good stuff I ve heard its called Gorex fffg etc.

Also, thanks for the explanation about the hammer down between the
cyl holes. I will check my 36 cal Cabela's BP gun out I think I remember seeing those pins between the nipples etc. at the time I had no idea what
they were for.

Also are the spent caps hard to remove once you fire a cyl worth
of loads? I heard of a decapper but i thought that was for maybe rifles etc.

many thanks again....

 

[Tommygunn]

Spent caps are hardly difficult to remove -- in fact there is often a tendency to fall off, which is why Colt guns have a little ....."valley" cut in the recoil shield to the right of the hammer. The problem is sometimes caps go down in that slot in back of the recoil shield where the hammer rests. Then, when you fire the next round, you hear "CLICK" when you should hear "BANG."
Turning the gun upside down and half-cocking the revolver will likely cause the offending mashed cap to fall out. But I have had to dig them out of the innards of a revolver at one time or another.

 

[Mark whiz]

I always return the powder from the flask back to the original container. That way I don't have to remember what powder is in what flask, PLUS I can then keep all my powders together for storage in their proper containers.

I'm not sure if all cap & ball revolvers have that intermediate "step" between nipples for the safe-keeping of the hammer. I know the Remington 1858 models do, but for some reason I seem to remember that at least some of the Colt models do not - you'll just have to look and see on your arms.

The caps falling into the works after ignition can be a big problem. I've just developed the "gunfighter's flick" to help that. After firing a round and cocking the hammer for the next shot, a hard flick of the wrist to the right usually sends the spent cap flying out away from the workings of the pistol about 80 to 90% of the time.

 

[pohill]

The only problem with flicking the gun to remove spent caps (and I do it sometimes) is that the muzzle of a loaded and cocked gun might not be on target, which means it might not be pointing in a totally safe direction, especially if it's pointing straight up.

 

[Pancho]

The remington guns had a very positive notch that the hammer would rest inbetween shots.permiting loading all of the cylinders. I have the same system on myNAA 22Mag cca gun and I feel very secure with it in my pocket. The colts on the other hand had pins inbetween the chambers to allow for a 6 round cylinder. From a saftey stantpoint I'd go for the Remington solution
If I'd kept the Pietti 1858 I would have to file the sides of the hammer down a little to get the hammer to fit right in off chamber safety notches.

 

[.44walkersabot]

Yeah, I keep powder in my flask all the time but I only use one kind so that part dosen't matter. I don't remember ever having a problem with the powder just because it'd been in the flask for a long time. (Sometimes a few months) If it shot any different I couldn't tell.
If you carry the tin of caps around (the small round tin with 100 caps per tin) then take like a small piece of electrican's tape and wrap around the tin. That will keep moisture from maybe finding it's way into the tin, plus it will insure the tin dosen't open and spill your caps. The tape is easy to peel off and you can put it back on.
I'll tell you what I do with my flask to help insure the powder stay's free of moisture. I take a Q-tip and cut the stem in to. Then I sort of ruffle up the cotton end and sort of screw it into the spout. I leave a little of the stem sticking out so I can easily pull it out of the spout. I don't really know if this helps or not but it makes me feel better and my powder is always dry no matter what weather I'm in, and sometimes I'm out in the rain or snow or whatever for long periods at a time. (an old Kiowa indian in Wyoming that looked like he was 300 years old done that so I picked it up from him. He said that's why the Great Spirit made Q-tips)
Just use your imagination. You will come up with all sorts of little ideas. Some good, some not so good...Okay...Better add this to I guess, since you're just getting started although you will end up seeing it right away anyway. It will take more than one Q-tip, But the last end you sort of screw and wedge in there will bring the others out with it when you pull on the so called 'stem'. (regular cotton ball work's good to)
Make sure you keep the piece clean and ready to go. It's no good to anyone just thrown in the corner rusting away. After you have the piece clean, a few days later run a clean dry patch through the bore a few times to pick up any fouling that may have been forced out of the Lands and Grooves (Rifling) (Twist) after the barrel has really cooled and the metal has contracted. Then re-coat it with Bore Butter to help hold down corrosion and to season the bore...Have fun and may there always be meat on your table...Okay...

 

[mykeal]

Using a flask for storage is not inherently any more dangerous than storing powder in it's original metal can, nor will it degrade the powder any faster.

Some revolvers have 'safety notches' or 'safety pins' on the cylinder between the nipples as a way to keep the hammer down and yet keep all the chambers loaded and capped. While this is clearly safer than resting the hammer on a capped, loaded chamber and/or leaving the hammer in half cock, it is less safe than leaving one chamber empty and resting the hammer on that nipple.

When the hammer is let down on the between nipple position the cylinder is not in battery, and the bolt is resting on the surface of the cylinder rather than in a cylinder notch. In this position the only thing keeping the cylinder from rotating into battery is the hammer itself; if one inadvertently pulls the hammer off the stop or pin the cylinder can and will likely rotate into it's preferred, in battery postion, and the hammer will then come down on a loaded, capped cylinder.

In the other case, with the hammer on an empty chamber nipple, the bolt is engaged in a cylinder notch,and the cylinder cannot rotate with a small hammer movement off the nipple. The cylinder is prevented by the bolt from rotating until the hammer is pulled all the way back into half cock, a much further distance than that in the case when the hammer is down on a between chamber "safety notch" or "safety pin".

What kind of condition can cause the hammer to make this small movement? Snagging the hammer on the edge of the holster as you slide it back in comes to mind. And when you clear the snag the mainspring will cause the hammer to fall, and if sliding into the holster has caused the cylinder to rotate (since it is free to do so) the sprung hammer could fall on a loaded capped chamber with enough force to set off the cap and thus the main charge.

It's a small difference, but we're dealing with safety here. I suggest that you not rely on the cylinder "safety notches" or "safety pins" as a safety mechanism. Keeping the hammer down on an empty chamber is the safest thing you can do.

Load one, skip one, load four, then lower the hammer. It will be on an empty chamber.

 

[mrgrzeskowiak]

I also leave my powder in my flask. I use 3F Skirmish powder in my pistol, I prefer the 58 Remington because of the Cylinder notches.

 

[arcticap]

I usually return the left over powder back into the original container before leaving the range mostly because I use different powders. I think that it's sealed up better that way and may help to keep the valve clear from powder clumps over time.

 

[bender]

my new 3rd Dragoon has the safety pins between chambers also. Is this "period correct" for the gun, or a modern added safety feature?

 

[jphendren]

I've never owned a flask before and was windering if the flask measures the powder, or do you still need a powder measure?

I would like to get one for my Colt 1860 if it actually measures the powder that it drops.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

I always empty the flask back to original container....one less thing for me to remember

 

[.44walkersabot]

Jphendren, Yes the flask will measure the powder. There are different sized 'spouts' that will screw into the top of the flask. Each spoutfull is called a 'throw'.
Depend's on what your caliber is as to what size spout you want on the flask. They come in different sizes. The baby flask's spout hold's about 5 grains (which I find one throw is real good for a Colt 1849 Pocket .31 with a four inch barrel) They have a spout for 18 grains which I'm guessing is for a .36. Don't know because I'vd never even had my hands on a .36 and probably never will. Then 24 grains which is good for a .44, then 30 grains which may or may not be suitable for a Pietta or Uberti .44 (they discuss it back and forth on here all the time), and right on up the ladder so to speak.
Some of these guys on here will read your post and they will have a gun like yours and they will jump on here and help you out.
But the flask will measure out your load depending on the spout size and will make your work a lot easier.
They have some spouts that are adjustable also, at least a Walker flask is...Okay...

 

[Pancho]

Here's an argument waiting to happen

How many of you guys load directly from the flask? How many load to a powder measure and then load to the gun?(-;

 

[jphendren]

I've been loading from the Swiss can into a powder measure and then into the charge hole of the cylinder. If a flask could measure that would save me a step.

Jared

 

[Pancho]

Jp, You can buy spouts in various sizes. The brass cylinder flasks have a universal thread and most muzzleloader suppliers sell the spouts. The point of contention is one of safety. The possibility that an ember could be smoldering in the chamber while one is trying to charge it does exist. The question is would one want 20-50 gr. of powder to blow up in your face or would you want 4 to 6 oz. of powder to blow up in your face. The chances that that would happen are remote and I doubt anyone ever used a powder measure during battle. Maybe I ought to sell my motorcycles.

 

[Mark whiz]

I've loaded both ways but I've gotten kind of lazy anymore and typically just use the spout on my flask. I tested my spout and verified that it gives me a consistent 27gr load of 3fg777 which is about what I like to shoot anyway.

I have have to agree that there is a possibility of trouble doing this, but it is a very remote possibility. I figure by the time I fire all 6 rounds, clear all the spent caps, wipe off the piece to get all the stray lube off, set it up on my loading stand (or pull the cylinder to load on my cylinder loading stand) - there is just no way something is still gonna be hot enough to ignite anything in the holes. Plus I look down the holes before loading too to verify no embers and nothing else stuck in the hole that could cause any issues. This is all easy enough to do at the range, since I'm not trying to stop a hoard of "injuns" from attacking the firing line.

 

[mrgrzeskowiak]

"my new 3rd Dragoon has the safety pins between chambers also. Is this "period correct" for the gun, or a modern added safety feature?"

My original does also. Looks like you've got a good repro.

On another note , I do not ever load directly from a flask, in fear that there may still be somthing in the barrel that may ignite the powder. I saw this 1st person at a war of 1812 reenactment. Took off a part of his forefinger. For some war reenactment situations, pre measured powder is not accurate, but Safety first in my eyes...

 

[.44walkersabot]

Mark whiz, good morning. Concerning your post here where you stated you got a pretty consistent charge of 27 grs.
Are you throwing from a 30 grain spout? I fire 3fff Triple Seven also and sometimes use a Remington (Uberti) .44 Cattleman's Carbine. I keep a 30 grain spout on the flask but have never actually measured or weighed the powder. It seem's to fire alright in there.
If you see this post I would appreciate it if you would tell me, because if I'm only charging it with about 27 as opposed to about 30 that would be good to know in case I may want to go a little hotter sometimes. Thank you...Okay...

 

[.44walkersabot]

Jphendren, if you are shooting a muzzle loader rifle, after you fire it, ALWAYS stick the muzzle into your mouth and suck hard on it for about 3 to 5 seconds. That will create a vacumn inside the barrel and will immediately extinguish (kill) any spark or smoldering ember that may remain inside of the barrel from the last shot. THEN, you can load directly from the flask with no worries...Okay...

 

[mykeal]

!

phendren, if you are shooting a muzzle loader rifle, after you fire it, ALWAYS stick the muzzle into your mouth and suck hard on it for about 3 to 5 seconds. That will create a vacumn inside the barrel and will immediately extinguish (kill) any spark or smoldering ember that may remain inside of the barrel from the last shot. THEN, you can load directly from the flask with no worries...Okay...

 

[Mark whiz]

.44walkersabot

My flask is a just a generic CVA unit that came as part of the kit that was included with my 1858 - a packaged deal from Bass Pro. It's just the brass, cylindrical model that they sell.

I am "assuming" it is probably meant as a 30gr spout but can't say for sure. With the 3fg777 I filled the flask and measured every spout-full until I emptied the flask and 27gr was a consistent average. I haven't repeated this with true Black Powder, but I figure that 777 is probably a tad finer cut than 3fg black - if so, the spout is probably REAL close to measuring out 30gr of black.

 

[.44walkersabot]

Mark whiz, Thank you. Good enough. I'm gonna leave mine like it is and not worry about it...Okay...