Using fiber cardboard for 45-70 Reduced loads.

[BRatigan]

Here is my question. Will I have any trouble with using a .060 vegetable fiber cardboard wad from Buffalo Arms in my reduced load 45-70 smokeless, loading of 13 grains of Unique under a 405 coated bullet? The cardboard sits closely atop the powder and its a nice close fit for diameter of the wad. This of course leaves an airspace between the wad and the bullet. The powder is right up against the primer with no air in the powder location. Will this cause any pressure concerns?

 

[Hole maker]

I have used non corrugated card board or very thick construction paper with corn meal with reduced loads, I used a pencil to coat the case mouth then put it on cardboard so as to see diameter image and cut just a bit larger than imprint diameter, your vegetable wad should work fine but I would not leave any air space, fill it corn meal/ cream of wheat, I never had a problem and I only used H-322/H-335 or Varget and Varget is what I think I used for reduced loads, no longer have the rifle or records, barrel a little more dirty but easy to clean. Keep in mind that the filler weighs some thing and adjust charges accordingly Ron.

 

[Targa]

I am asking this simply because I don’t know, I have never tried downloading using a filler of any kind but it is obviously a very popular way of a means to an end. My question is, why not save the trouble and get some IMR4198 that has reduced load case capacity that doesn’t need anything added for good case fill and call it good?

 

[Englishmn]

I use dacron stuffing in my 7.62x54r plinking loads to help hold the powder by primer never had any problems. Load was really variable without it.

 

[Charlie98]

Do NOT use a rigid wad of any kind in a smokeless cartridge. Dacron, or even toilet paper is a better avenue to that end.

Reduced loads using pistol powders (Unique, RedDot, et al...) are tricky already, don't use something that can alter the pressure wave.

I also tend to agree with Targa... using a better powder, like IMR4198 or AA5744, will solve your problems without the variable of a wad or filler. I have loaded for the .45-70 with both Unique and 2400... but I have abandoned that for IMR4198 as my standard powder. Just my .02 worth...

 

[Bcwitt]

Alternatly, a little piece of hornet's nest works great in straight wall cases. Cut a piece a bit larger then the bore & insert w the holes toward the bullet. Thay usually do not burn, when recovered.

 

[Starter52]

My local craft store (Michaels) sells 1/2 inch little dacron pom-poms in bags of 25. Perfect for sliding into a .45/70 case to hold the powder charge in place.

 

[DukeConnor]

I use no filler or wads in my 45-70 Unique loads.

 

[BRatigan]

I will defer to the wisdom of our members and err on the side of safety. I will just stick to the load as it shoots so well as it is. Thank you all for your input.

 

[Charlie98]

I will defer to the wisdom of our members and err on the side of safety. I will just stick to the load as it shoots so well as it is. Thank you all for your input.

When I was shooting my Unique .45-70 loads, I would muzzle up after I chambered the round... putting the powder back against the primer. I don't know if that held any magic... but that's what I did... the theory being the ignition would be more consistent, vs having the powder all over the inside of the cartridge.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Conventional wisdom is don’t use a card wad with small charges of smokeless powders. It can cause buldged barrels if the card lodges in the barrel.

I use a small tuft of Dacron pillow stuffing. This keeps the powder next to the primer improving ignition. The Dacron is consumed by combustion as it’s an inert component of smokeless powder.

Approximately 1/2gr of Dacron under a 400gr Lee RFN sized .460” over 20.0gr of #2400.
3-shots at 50yds.

 

[BRatigan]

Those are the results that I will ultimately expect. Very nice group.

 

[GaryL]

I think I would rather get a rifle in 45 colt for the purpose of reduced recoil rifle shooting. Maybe try IMR4064 with a 300 gr bullet at the bottom of the range to soften the blow?

 

[Charlie98]

I think I would rather get a rifle in 45 colt for the purpose of reduced recoil rifle shooting.

I've got an H&R Classic single-shot in .45 Colt... it's like a baby .45-70! I will say, in that light rifle, heavy loads of IMR4227 and a 255grn bullet.... feel awfully like the .45-70, too...

 

[PapaG]

I have not used any fillers in 45-70 for Unique or any other powder. I did use a tuft of Kapok in 30-06 cast bullet loads using 4198 years ago when competing in cast bullet (NOT boolet) competition.

 

[Obturation]

I would never use a card over smokeless . as goofy as it sounds , my understanding is that the card becomes the projectile and that initial impact when the card contacts the back of the bullet changes things. I also use imr4198 for reduced (light trapdoor ) & full power (near max modern lever action) loads in 45-70, no problem , no card.

 

[dh1633pm]

I use a square of toilet paper. Added benefit of watching the burned particles come out the barrel.

 

[PapaG]

I did use a milk carton (waxed heavy paper) disc on top of the powder with a grease wad followed by another disc in Black Powder Cartridge match shooting but the case was full of black and the bullet seated in the rifling. Different situation.
Actual load, same case for each shot, index marked to chamber. 5 grains DuPont Bulk Shotgun smokeless, 55 grains DuPont ffg, wad/wax/wad, Lyman 457124 lived with Alox/beeswax, sized to .459, cast of about 1-20.
Performance, Rolling Block, Num rich 1-22 1 1/8 across the flats barrel, 28" long, Redfield apertures both ends, 100 yards five in 1 1/2", 200 yards, five in 5". Had to brag a little. My eyes were fifty years younger.