Using motor oil on guns.

[HoosierQ]

I expect this debate gets so dicey because a) there is a spectrum of expectations people have in a "gun oil", and b) motor oil or "non-gun oil" if you will fulfills only a subset of that spectrum.

People expect four things of motor oil. 1) Lubrication. 2) Cooling of parts heated by friction. 3) Suspension of particulates. 4) Detergent capabilities to remove/prevent coke buildup (a big problem in internal combustion engines 100 years ago).

With gun oil the expectations pretty much converge only item 1 and perhaps to some extent item 4. In the case of item 4, a lot of people expect their gun oil to be a good cleaning agent. This is a military paradigm that has a great deal of traction in the civilian world and not without reason.

Beyond that people expect other things from "gun oil" (and by "people" I mean a sample of expectations across everybody). They expect it to protect against rust. They expect to be able to use it on any material and finish (Balistol). They expect it to smell a certain way because a gun is frequently kept in close proximity with humans and animals and spouses. They expect it to adhere. They expect it not to evaporate. They expect them to come in convenient forms (aerosol). They expect them not to be messy.

I like and use motor oil on a gun for one reason: Lubrication. For that it does very well. I use gun oils because they are convenient and because they travel a lot better than motor oil depending on what sort of container one uses.

 

[stressed]

What do you think the locals use in Iraq in an oil rich country for their Kalashnikovs?

Works fine.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I expect this debate gets so dicey because a) there is a spectrum of expectations people have in a "gun oil", and b) motor oil or "non-gun oil" if you will fulfills only a subset of that spectrum.

People expect four things of motor oil. 1) Lubrication. 2) Cooling of parts heated by friction. 3) Suspension of particulates. 4) Detergent capabilities to remove/prevent coke buildup (a big problem in internal combustion engines 100 years ago).

With gun oil the expectations pretty much converge only item 1 and perhaps to some extent item 4. In the case of item 4, a lot of people expect their gun oil to be a good cleaning agent. This is a military paradigm that has a great deal of traction in the civilian world and not without reason.

Beyond that people expect other things from "gun oil" (and by "people" I mean a sample of expectations across everybody). They expect it to protect against rust. They expect to be able to use it on any material and finish (Balistol). They expect it to smell a certain way because a gun is frequently kept in close proximity with humans and animals and spouses. They expect it to adhere. They expect it not to evaporate. They expect them to come in convenient forms (aerosol). They expect them not to be messy.

I like and use motor oil on a gun for one reason: Lubrication. For that it does very well. I use gun oils because they are convenient and because they travel a lot better than motor oil depending on what sort of container one uses.

One other thing some people expect from "gun oil" is non-toxicity. I suspect my chances of death from some cancer caused by exposure to solvents and oils used cleaning weapons while in the Army is probably significantly higher than most shooters using motor oil and other lubricants and cleaners for their personal firearms. I now use expensive and inexpensive non-toxic cleaners for everything from firearms to flooring.

 

[Nom de Forum]

What do you think the locals use in Iraq in an oil rich country for their Kalashnikovs?

Works fine.

I don't know. Considering the sorry state of their economy they may sell all the petroleum and use olive oil and mutton fat for Kalashnikovs.

 

[Warp]

What do you think the locals use in Iraq in an oil rich country for their Kalashnikovs?

Works fine.

They only use the best of the best, clearly. We should all attempt to imitate their gear.

 

[Nom de Forum]

They only use the best of the best, clearly. We should all attempt to imitate their gear.

That's funny!

 

[13Bravo]

What do you think the locals use in Iraq in an oil rich country for their Kalashnikovs?

Works fine.

I'm not sure they use anything. We and the Iraqi army did our best to disarm "locals" while we were there. That seems to have not turned out so well.

We probably gave them some crazy amount of CLP before we left.

 

[stressed]

I've seen bare as well, but any of the men to go through military training whether Iraqi army, peshmerga, etc are taught basics on maintaining weapons. Usually if anything is used it appeared to be just oil.

 

[james layman]

Heard 2nd hand from an oil engineer chemist that Mobile 1 is the best on the market. I recently started using it to lube, protect & clean. So far all is well.

 

[JShirley]

Moly grease works great for heavy metal to metal contact on firearms. When I have some, I out a thin film of it around the BCG on my ARs.

 

[rtz]

I'll bet you could turn a nice profit indeed if you could find a high end watchmaker/repairman to sell it to. Somebody once told that for the high precision tiny, soft gears in very expensive watches that there is no better lubricant even today.

Read this:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RHLA0C...N=B0007ZAJRM&nodeID=15684181&store=automotive

And yes; that stuff really works for a transmission that shudders right before it shifts.

 

[sigman2]

Guys,

I've read this thread and the one that's a sticky and realize there will always be a heated debate over which project is better whether it be gun oils or cereal. If what you're using works for you then stick with it. Every product claims to be the best... that's marketing. Have you ever seen a product that advertises that "We're good but our competitor, XYZ, is better"?

That said, for over 50 years I've used the same oil on all my firearms. My dad was superintendent of a power generating station and would occasionally bring home a gallon of turbine oil. This was Shell Turbo 27. It's basically ATF without the dyes. I've never had any problems with corrosion, lack of lubrication, gumminess, etc.

Attached is a photo of a Winchester M61 .22 S,L,LR rifle that I sold about two years ago. It and a matching .22 Mag. were unfired in the box since 1959. I purchased them in 1972. The photo is as the rifle came out of it's box after being closed for seven, yes, seven years. It spent most of its life in humid New Orleans with only a light wipe down every 5-10 years. The rifle had been serviced (wiped down) in 2002. I normally would have left it closed for ten years but Hurricane Katrina and her forced move caused me to check all my firearms after moving to Alabama in September, 2005. I was fortunate not to have any flooding in my neighborhood. N.O. East flooding destroyed the BellSouth building I worked in and caused the move to AL. No rust on any of my 130+ guns.

You can see the old, light oil film on the receiver. It wasn't dry or gummy... just a light oil film.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I using Mobil 1 and it works fine.

 

[CraigC]

For one thing, motor oil offers zero corrosion protection. So what's the point in using a lube that offers no rust protection? It is also designed to operate at elevated temperatures and most of it is too thick at room temperature, much less when it's freezing.

CLP is cheap. Yes, it might cost more per ounce than motor oil but given the cost of buying guns, ammo (or components) and all the other costs associated with shooting, it's insignificant. I can't remember when I bought the bottle I'm using now. I think people like to think they've figured out a way to cheat the man out of his coin but IMHO, it's more imagined than real.

Used motor oil is a known carcinogen.

 

[HoosierQ]

For one thing, motor oil offers zero corrosion protection. So what's the point in using a lube that offers no rust protection? It is also designed to operate at elevated temperatures and most of it is too thick at room temperature, much less when it's freezing.

CLP is cheap. Yes, it might cost more per ounce than motor oil but given the cost of buying guns, ammo (or components) and all the other costs associated with shooting, it's insignificant. I can't remember when I bought the bottle I'm using now. I think people like to think they've figured out a way to cheat the man out of his coin but IMHO, it's more imagined than real.

Used motor oil is a known carcinogen.

Well I don't think it's zero. People have been protecting iron tools with oily lipids for 3,000 years with at least some success. No, motor oil is not optimal for corrosion prevention nor is it optimized for same. But it's not zero.

Used motor oil is indeed nasty stuff. I would not use that for any purpose.-

 

[benEzra]

For one thing, motor oil offers zero corrosion protection. So what's the point in using a lube that offers no rust protection?

It offers some corrosion protection, enough for a gun's internals under conditions where lubrication is more important than corrosion protection (i.e. use rather than long-term storage). For long term storage, use a corrosion protectant, not a lube; for reliable operation, use a lubricant, not a corrosion protectant.

It is also designed to operate at elevated temperatures and most of it is too thick at room temperature, much less when it's freezing.

Incorrect; synthetic 5W30 is an ideal viscosity for an AR or a pistol at room temperature, and because it is synthetic PAO based, it is still a liquid down to below zero. In Alaska in the winter, switch to a thinner weight. CLP is thinner than ideal for an AR, IMO, and dries out quickly under hard use.

As to protecting cool or cold parts, most engine wear occurs at startup, when the parts are touching and the oil is cold (often down to freezing or below). Synthetic motor oil is excellent at preventing wear under those conditions, too.

And my AR after a few match stages on a hot summer day probably runs hotter than my car engine does (remember your car has a cooling system to keep the parts temps down).

CLP is cheap.

Yes, it is. It's also inferior as a pure lubricant compared to a full-on lubricant (and that's true whether you're talking about Mobil 1 or a full-on gun lube like Militec-1 or whatever).

CLP is designed to simplify logistics by allowing one compromise product to serve as a cleaning solvent, protectant, and lubricant, so that a soldier only has to be issued one bottle rather than two or three. It is "good enough" at all three purposes to make that practical, but specialized products will best it in each of those areas.

Used motor oil is a known carcinogen.

Motor oil that has been used in an internal combustion engine is a known carcinogen, because some of the intermediate products of gasoline combustion (particularly incomplete combustion) are carcinogenic and they dissolve in oil over months of use due to piston ring blow-by. That's not an issue with firearms.

 

[CraigC]

Incorrect

You can say that but it doesn't make it so. Motor oil is designed to do its work in an engine at operating temperature. Period. Sure, you can use it for anything you want, you can fry your chicken in it. That doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job.

That's not an issue with firearms.

I said "used" motor oil. Because some folks, in some discussions, have admitted to using old motor oil.

remember your car has a cooling system to keep the parts temps down

That doesn't mean that every part in the engine is around 200°.

And my AR after a few match stages on a hot summer day probably runs hotter than my car engine does

I have nearly 100 guns and only one of them is an AR. Not everybody lives and breathes AR's. Ever check your bolt temperature with an IR temp gun?


As far as the rest, I formed my opinions because I actually used the stuff. Not because I read about it after using Google.

Carry on.....

 

[benEzra]

Motor oil is designed to do its work in an engine at operating temperature. Period.

It's designed to do its work over the full range of engine operating temps, from winter cold start to full temp in summer. Any oil that didn't protect an engine at ambient temp and zero rpm would quickly ruin the engine.

FWIW, the viscosity of Mobil 1 at room temp is very close to that of some of the more highly regarded gun lubes intended for AR's.

Because some folks, in some discussions, have admitted to using old motor oil.

To me, that'd be an emergency-only case. Used oil has less ZDDP than new oil, plus acidic contaminants and probably some water. It would keep a gun running but would't be ideal.

I have nearly 100 guns and only one of them is an AR. Not everybody lives and breathes AR's.

Certainly. A bolt gun has a lot less need for lubrication than a gun with fast-reciprocating parts does. I'm not saying that Mobil 1 is the best lube for every gun under every circumstance. I'm merely offering counterpoint to the "if you think Mobil 1 is a better lubricant than CLP under any circumstances, you are either ignorant or a cheapskate" argument that I've seen multiple tunes in this thread.

For my own rifle (AR) and my conditions (lots of steel-case, several range troops between cleanings, reliability paramount, no long term untended storage) I have found Mobil 1 is superior to both Rem Oil and CLP. For your guns and your uses, you may find the opposite is true, and that's fine.

Ever check your bolt temperature with an IR temp gun?

I suspect the more critical measurement would be the peak transient surface temps inside the piston chamber, and I don't know how you'd measure that without some specialized equipment; an AR bolt body overall probably doesn't exceed 180 degrees very often. However, thin high-solvent products like Rem Oil and CLP do seen to disappear very quickly from the bolt lugs and bolt tail, whereas Mobil 1 will stick around for multiple range trips and keeps carbon fouling from accreting.

As far as the rest, I formed my opinions because I actually used the stuff. Not because I read about it after using Google.

Same here; used Outers oil and Rem Oil for years, then CLP, then M1, almost exclusively on semiautos (Mini-14, SAR-1, Rock River AR). I find M1 works best for me. Your use case may be different and that's fine.

I find M1 works fine on 3rd-gen S&Ws too, but I tend to use light grease on the bearing surfaces instead because it is less messy for a carry pistol.

 

[Warp]

Unfortunately no engine oil is viscous enough to properly lubricate and protect at cold start temperatures.

 

[TMCCOY]

I recently bought into the Frog Lube and had cleaned my Rem 700 .338WM with the cleaner then treated the barrel. After reading this thread and the concern that perhaps FL was dubious as a cleaning agent, I re-cleaned the barrel with Pro-Shot copper solvent and the wipes came out bright blue with copper.

In conclusion, FL is not a suitable copper remover, probably not for lead/powder either, but may be a good "dry" lube. I think I'll stick to what I know and go back to Petroleum products.

 

[AJumbo]

Used the dregs of a bottle of Valvoline High Mileage Synthetic 10W30 on my 1911, the locks of four muzzleloaders, a 97 Winchester and my Remington 1100, then shot the heck out of all of them. No problems to report, and I dumped about 600 rounds through the 1100 in two days. A quart should last pretty much forever.

 

[Warp]

I recently bought into the Frog Lube and had cleaned my Rem 700 .338WM with the cleaner then treated the barrel. After reading this thread and the concern that perhaps FL was dubious as a cleaning agent, I re-cleaned the barrel with Pro-Shot copper solvent and the wipes came out bright blue with copper.

In conclusion, FL is not a suitable copper remover, probably not for lead/powder either, but may be a good "dry" lube. I think I'll stick to what I know and go back to Petroleum products.

I really like Frog Lube paste as a lube on my AR's.

It does not replace a good cleaner/copper removal product for cleaning the bore, if getting all the copper out of the bore is what you are after, you'll need to use something specifically for that.

 

[Yorgee]

I use like 1/1 ratio birchwood gun oil, wd40, and castrol magnatec 20w50 mixed together, been using it for years perfect and great for storing

 

[McAngus]

Hi, new to the forum and wanted to add in my 2cents. If you choose to use motor oil(which probably isn't the best but honestly it will work) you don't need to go synthetic. Yeah synthetic is technically better, but no firearm will move fast enough or get hot enough or get dirty enough to justify using synthetic. I would just use a cheap but reputable brand that you can find on sale at Walmart.

That actually goes for most cars. Also don't use high octane gas unless you really need it. Most engines and most drivers would do better with more frequent oil changes with cheap oil vs using synthetic but changing less frequently.

I think oil weight does matter however. Google it. It really is simple to understand the numbers on the bottles.

 

[Jesse H]

I've seen Froglube gunk up on a team mate's AR during a 3-day class. We shot about 700 rounds each, and it was in the mid 20's the first couple days.

I honestly can't remember what lube I had on my rifle that day. Could've been Mobil1, Tetra grease, or Rem oil.