USPS no longer shipping long guns for non-licensees

[bikemutt]

I took a packaged rifle to my main post office today, along with a copy of the recipient's FFL license and printout from EZ-Check showing the FFL's license is current and the premises address matches the license, and matches my shipping label.

From the second I started speaking with the counter person I had an inclination this was not going to be a normal day: attitude.

She disappeared in the back, returned, and informed me that non-licensees may no longer ship ANY guns, period. She said Homeland Security had issued a bulletin stating no more guns accepted from non-licensees, end of story. I tried to reason with her and was told flat out, it's not going to happen.

I could not believe this was the case so, I drove 5 miles to another post office and asked if I could ship a rifle to a FFL. I produced the same documentation as in the first case. The counter person briefly consulted with the boss and said sure, no problem.

I don't know what the heck is going on but figured I'd post my experience here in the event others have observed the same thing.

 

[General Geoff]

Sounds like some clerk just doesn't like guns.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Bring it up with the local Postmaster.

 

[grter]

Report this lady or be complacent and it will happen to someone else in your shoes.

What she did or her boss or whoever was label you as a lowlife and refused to provide services that you were entitled to. Her motives or what she thought are all secondary when it comes to this issue of rights being violated.

She might as well have told you to go sit in the back of the bus. Ignorance is not an excuse and in this day and age GUN OWNERS MUST MAKE THEIR VOICES HEARD.


On top of all that this Homeland Security story sounds like total BS.

If she is a nice lady she will thank you for expanding her knowlege, if not, it doesn't matter. Either way it sounds like things need to be straightened out here.

 

[45_auto]

I run into that problem all the time.

Take a copy of the USPS Policies and Procedures Manual clarification page with you from the link below. Show them 12.2 (C).

If they don't believe you, tell them to look it up in their postal bulletins, or on the USPS internet site at:

http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2011/pb22321/html/updt_001.htm

600 Basic Standards for All Mailing Services
*601 Mailability
**12.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
***12.1 Firearms
***12.2 (c) Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 12.2a.

If they still won't help you then take it to their supervisor. Sometimes you'll have to go up 2 or 3 levels before you get someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[Deer_Freak]

Our local post office has a big sign on the wall, no firearms. They will not mail firearms unless you are an FFL. I have brought documents that proved I had the right to mail a firearm to an FFL. They just shrugged their shoulders. I went to the post master general in Raleigh. He said it was the way the firearm was packaged. I asked him about the sign on the wall. And he said that meant no concealed firearms.

I don't know where to go once you go to the postmaster for the entire state.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf

 

[dprice3844444]

they need to be more politically correct with their signage

 

[YZ]

Truth is, she is a government servant who does not need your business. Or your vote. You can invest more time and aggravation in this incident to get her slapped on the wrist. That's up to you. I've always stayed away from USPS with any firearms, no matter how legal.

 

[dogtown tom]

Deer_Freak ....I don't know where to go once you go to the postmaster for the entire state.

You raise a polite stink.

If you go armed with a copy of DMM601 12.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter:
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#1198527
Be polite, smile and do not allow the clerk to invent personal regulations and POLITELY show them the error of their ways. Usually highlighting 12.2c and 12.3 is sufficient.

If they continue to refuse, ask for the Customer Service Manager, then the Postmaster, then a Postal Inspector. If the clerk (or the CSR, PM or inspector) refuses to accept your package........get their name and document the time you were there.



It is clearly a lawful shipment. Every post office has a copy of the DMM and can also look it up online.

 

[dogtown tom]

dprice3844444 http://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf

NOOOOOOO!!!!!:banghead:

If you are not a licensed dealer or manufacturer and sign that form you commit perjury.

Only dealers and manufacturers can use that form and then only when shipping firearms other than rifles or shotguns.

Since this thread is about a NONLICENSEE mailing firearms, the link will only serve to get them in trouble.

 

[jstein650]

Interesting...

I had to ship my rifle last Friday at my local USPS. As soon as I laid the box on the counter, the lady asked me if it was a rifle (it was in a Remington box). I said, 'yeah', then she said if I wasn't an FFL holder I couldn't do it. Incredulous, I explained there was no ammo or anything. After a moment and a bit of stammering she said, as if from memory, 'oh, if it's not a handgun, then that's OK'
I can only surmise that there has been a recent 'educational' seminar these employees have had to go through, and most of them don't know their head from a hole-in-the-ground when it comes to firearms. Jeeze...

 

[gym]

I have been told that they would not ship a firearm regardless what paperwork I had or what I was told. I called up the local and district post office, the usps online and was still told, no. It seems like it depends more on who you get, than what the law says. You can't argue with someone who says no and walks away or tells you on the phone no way is that going to happen, you will only get a heart attack. I found Pak & ship is the best alternative, they seem to know more about who can do what than the actual shippers.
I always end up with Fedx overnight.

 

[bikemutt]

I don't know yet if I'll push this one. I don't often ship firearms, and I know enough not to base any decision on one data point. Maybe they were having a bad day, who knows. I'll sleep on it.

Come to think of it no, I'm not going to sleep on it. I'm heading up there tomorrow. I'm a law-abiding citizen engaging in lawful commerce, and I'm paying for it in this case.

Report to follow.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

For what it's worth, when I lived in San Francisco, my copy of American rifleman from the NRA would rarely arrive. If they resent in something covered it arrived. It happened so often and only to the one firearm magazine I subscribed to at the time it was the postal person. I don't doubt you had someone who didn't like firearms.

 

[jstein650]

to bikemutt: I think you should push it. The more I think about it the more p.o'd I get. My own situation happened to work out THIS time. I've never quite understood; is the USPS a federally managed entity? A private organization?
I mean if this is going to be a matter of federal law, then isn't that sort of thing supposed to be voted on by congress? The potential opportunity to shut down firearm commerce is an obvious and troubling possibility that I'm sure would just make the anti's drool.

 

[25cschaefer]

You know, you don't have to tell them that it is a gun, you must only inform private carriers like FedEx and UPS.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"You know, you don't have to tell them that it is a gun, you must only inform private carriers like FedEx and UPS"



Actually... Yes you do.

And if requested, you might be asked to actually open the box to demonstrate that it's unloaded.

Read the guidance in the links provided, to whit:



12.2: Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d.



Willie


.

 

[dogtown tom]

jstein650 Interesting...

I had to ship my rifle last Friday at my local USPS. As soon as I laid the box on the counter, the lady asked me if it was a rifle (it was in a Remington box).

You're kidding?:banghead:
Why not just write STEAL ME on the box?

You do know its a violation of Federal law to mark the shipping container in a way that identifies the contents as a firearm, right?

 

[dogtown tom]

gym ....... I found Pak & ship is the best alternative, they seem to know more about who can do what than the actual shippers.
I always end up with Fedx overnight.

And by using a third party to ship you nullify your insurance coverage.

 

[dogtown tom]

Willie Sutton

"You know, you don't have to tell them that it is a gun, you must only inform private carriers like FedEx and UPS"

Actually... Yes you do.

Actually, with any carrier whether UPS, FedEx or USPS you don't.
Only dealers and manufacturers are required to notify USPS (via a Form 1508) that they are shipping a handgun. There is no notification required to USPS when shipping a rifle or shotgun UNLESS you are shipping interstate to a nonlicensee (itself a felony with two rare exceptions).

Fail to notify USPS..........nothing happens.
Fail to notify UPS/FedEx........you get nothing on a claim for loss, damage or theft. You violated their tariffs.

And if requested, you might be asked to actually open the box to demonstrate that it's unloaded.

Which you are NOT REQUIRED to do.
Read the entire sentence:

12.2: Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d.

Simply write a note: "Dear USPS, it ain't loaded. "

 

[Schwing]

I recently shipped a rifle back to hi point. Their shipping instructions very clearly state NOT to mark the box as a firearm and, instead, to mark it as "Machine Parts". I verified this at my post office and was told that this is acceptable. I read section 12.2 above and noticed something:

12.2: Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d.

They MAY make you open your package for inspection but, at no time, does it require any markings or declarations of any kind... I am pretty sure Hi point would have been shut down by now if this was illegal as they have been instructing their customers to do it this way for years.

 

[Jim K]

Well, you really don't have a right to mail long arms; the USPS can make regulations as to what can be mailed. But they do have to conform to their own regulations; postal clerks can't make up their own rules as they go along.

When you run into that kind of nonsense, ask politely for the names of the clerk and the postmaster; if they ask why, point out that you will be writing a letter to the Postmaster General asking that the policy be clarified and why that office chooses not to follow regulations. Be perfectly polite, and don't lose your temper.

I think they will probably conclude that you can ship the long via USPS.

Jim

 

[bikemutt]

Well, I'm going to take the advice of my better half who's known me for a quarter century; I'll wait until my crank has fully unwound before I go back there.

I'm just sore about it right now, not a good state of mind to calmly seek an answer. Every time I think about it I get bent, best to let time take care of that.

 

[blarby]

Beer my friend, beer.

Then, go back the next day. I have a mail clerk that hates me herein JC, and I hate her right back. I've had to bring in mailing regs and a PM once- I haven't lost yet.

Keep fighting the good fight- you WILL win.