USPSA/IDPA - Factory Ammo Only?

[Bobson]

This is a "gee whiz" question as far as I'm concerned. Is there any sort of rule in USPSA or IDPA that says a competitor must use factory ammo only?

I know USPSA has power level rules, so I was wondering how they would ensure consistency if they allow reloads to be used. I know they check it at a certain point. But how do they know a person doesn't load some hot stuff to make the power level, then load lighter stuff to use during a match? I can't imagine they simply use the honor system.

What's the scoop?

 

[twofifty]

in USPSA/IPSC

Most competitors use their own reloads, which make PF and are tuned to their gun's action/springs/compensators. Some use commercial fodder that shoots well in their gun. You can shoot either.

A puffy weak load is not really an advantage if your gun cycles unreliably, or if it makes the gun recoil poorly. Most guys load above minimum PF as you want a margin of error (not all bullets from the same batch weigh the same) and air density varies day to day or according to altitude. For that reason, a guy who barely makes PF in Colorado will not when shooting in Florida.

What happens at a sanctioned match is that the competitor declares Minor or Major PF when registering in the morning.

At some time during the day, match officials will call each shooter or each squad to the Chronograph Stage. Ammo samples will be randomly collected from the mags on the shooter's belt/gun/range bag, and shot over a calibrated chrono through that shooter's own gun. They will ask you to declare what your bullet weight is, and on that basis make the PF calculation (weight x avg. velocity /1000 = PF)

The test procedure is strictly adhered to and is described in the rule book. It may include pulling and weighing a bullet.

If you declared Major and fail to meet it, you will be scored Minor.
If you declared Minor and fail that, you shoot for no score.

 

[Bobson]

Interesting. Thank you for the informative, thorough response.

 

[lmccrock]

I do not shoot many major matches, but those will chrono, not so much monthly club matches. The only time I had to chrono was at the USPSA Multigun Nationals, both times I went. And those were not random draw; they handed each of us a bags and we were told to put x number or rounds of our pistol and rifle ammo in the bag, and stick a shooter label on the bag.

So, while some matches randomly draw ammo, very much an honor system.

 

[Hoser]

You can find a rulebook at www.uspsa.org and www.idpa.com

 

[Jim Watson]

I have only had a chronograph check at state and national championship IDPA matches.
The last two times, the procedure was for a SO to come around with bags and say: "Give me six rounds from a magazine on your belt." Chronographing was done later as a separate stage.
Note that in IDPA, there would be no demotion from Major to Minor, you would be out.

I am sure we could all think of ways to beat that, but really, is it worth cheating for a fraction less recoil?

 

[HexHead]

Much lower than minimum PF, you'll likely have the brass dribbling out of your gun.

 

[waktasz]

What's factory ammo? The only guns I have that see any of that are carry guns.

 

[tarosean]

So, while some matches randomly draw ammo, very much an honor system.

Yeah but you really don't want a bunch of different PF ammo on you or near your bag. As your results might be all over the place if grabbed while in a hurry.

 

[ny32182]

Most matches where I have been chronoed, they just ask you to put any 6-8 rounds you want in the bag for chrono. So, honor system at those.

I've been at other matches where they 'Pop quizzed' you; an official would come around at take ammo out of the first mag on your belt at a random point in the match. I like that system better.

I know a guy or two that keep some "extra hot" ammo in their bag in case they run into a heavy piece of steel, but they will make minor with any ammo they have.

 

[sauer1911]

I am new to IDPA, having shot in maybe 8 matches.

At the end of a match, someone had a Chrono out. It seemed to me that ALOT of the shooters in my group had rounds that were so weak it wasnt even competition worthy stuff.

Why would you shoot weak stuff like that? I just wasnt raised that way to shoot WAY below the rules. They just shrugged and said, "they dont chrono at this level." hmm, sure glad my family raised me they way they did.

I just cant do that.

be safe.

 

[twofifty]

Sauer, how good were those PF cheats?
Kinda figuring NOT very.

 

[sauer1911]

Sauer, how good were those PF cheats?
Kinda figuring NOT very.

Dont really remember, but I feel if I keep on my path, Ill keep doing alright. It just seemed like they had such a non chalance about the whole thing.

But the harder I work, the luckier I get.

be safe

 

[jtischauser]

It would be easy to cheat the PF system and simply keep some hot loads handy for the chronograph but it's not worth getting caught.

IMHO the PF doesn't really matter all that much. One or two misses kills any advantage one could get from having a slightly softer load. That's why I shoot nothing but Freedom Munitions 124gr loads.

 

[fiftybmg]

This is a "gee whiz" question as far as I'm concerned. Is there any sort of rule in USPSA or IDPA that says a competitor must use factory ammo only?

I know USPSA has power level rules, so I was wondering how they would ensure consistency if they allow reloads to be used. I know they check it at a certain point. But how do they know a person doesn't load some hot stuff to make the power level, then load lighter stuff to use during a match? I can't imagine they simply use the honor system.

What's the scoop?

It is in essence an honor system.

IDPA has minimum power factor, which is

[bullet weight in grains] X [velocity in feet per second]

Semi auto pistols, excluding .45 must make 125,000

.45 must make 165,000

Standard revolver must make 115,000 [ 38 special ]. Originally, the power factor was 125,000 but was reduced because in the US it was difficult to source commercial 38 special ammo at 125,000.

In reality, a SSR load at 115,000 power factor is a bit light to knock over the occasional steel out past 20 yards.

Enhanced revolver [ .38, .357, .44 and .45 ACP ] must make 165,000. [ I've used a Redhawk at club shoots with a power factor of 220,000 . Impressive muzzle blast but slow on accurate follow-up shots. ]

At League matches and higher that I've attended, there is usually a chrony stage where velocity is checked. This is mostly up to the honesty of the shooter, because the velocity is measured but the shooter states the bullet weight. I've never seen ammo being pulled and the bullet actually weighed, which is a more reliable procedure.

The principle behind the power factor rule is that a competitor can shoot faster with reduced power loads, which constitutes unfair advantage.

 

[ny32182]

Not a revolver expert, but I thought they dropped the minor revolver division in IDPA down to 105pf.

A lot of newish shooters in competition will start reloading before they get a chrono, and will just load the lightest that will run the gun. Depending on the gun and spring setup, this is often below the power floor. First time they chrono, they get a big surprise that they need up bump it back up a little.

Not ALL factory ammo makes it either, which is why they have it pretty low, so most factory ammo can be used.

There is VERY little advantage to be had especially in the minor divisions loading sub-minor. The recoil of a 130pf 9mm is already very manageable. Below that, you don't get very much if any noticeable recoil reduction, and sometimes guns don't run very well below that if they are a little dirty. Not everyone calibrates their steel as light as they should. Plus you have the risk of DQing at the chrono. No one who's been shooting at sanctioned/Level 2 matches for more than 5 minutes is likely to be intentionally scraping the power floor; there just isn't any upside in it.

 

[Blue Thunder]

When I first started shooting IPSC the Major PF was 175. My first crono loads in 45 came out at 210PF. I later got a chrono and loaded down to 183 or so. The major PF has now been reduced to 165PF which is much easier to get and saves powder. Having shot both state and area 6 matches, I have given the RO the opportunity to pull ammo from where ever they wish. They will usually go for one mag on my belt but I have had a couple go into the border shift bag where the other 400 reloads are located. Never had an issue getting to Major.

 

[twofifty]

weird & counter intuitive

....
....
There is VERY little advantage to be had especially in the minor divisions loading sub-minor. The recoil of a 130pf 9mm is already very manageable. Below that, you don't get very much if any noticeable recoil reduction, and sometimes guns don't run very well below that if they are a little dirty. Not everyone calibrates their steel as light as they should. Plus you have the risk of DQing at the chrono. No one who's been shooting at sanctioned/Level 2 matches for more than 5 minutes is likely to be intentionally scraping the power floor; there just isn't any upside in it.

Totally agree with you there's no upside to scraping the power floor.

I run my 9mm at 140PF, used to run it at 132PF.
At 140PF the 2# steel pistol returns automatically to point of aim, at 132PF not so much.

In other words, the extra recoil helps to set me up for the 2nd shot.
Don't know why.

 

[ny32182]

The match load I'm using now read 132 at Area 6 and 136 this past weekend at SC Sectional... It usually averages 135 on my chrono. In the heavy gun I'm shooting now, I literally don't think I can feel a difference between that at a 125pf load with the same bullet. Maybe in a Glock you could tell SOME difference shooting them back to back, but that's about what it would take.

I thought major in IPSC was 175, and USPSA was 165.

 

[Jim Watson]

IPSC is weird.
Open Major is f 160, 9mm Major OK.
Standard, Classic, and Revolver Major is f 170; minimum Major is .40.


To the OP, there is such a thing as USPSA Official Match Ammunition, sold at the range. But it is still subject to chronograph check.

 

[waktasz]

That last part isn't true actually. If it's been deemed the official match ammo, it doesn't have to pass chrono.
I also haven't seen that as being available all that often, even at level 3 matches.

 

[Jim Watson]

I'm confused. USPSA Appendix C3 "Ammunition Verification" says:

"At any match where competitor ammunition will be chrono-graphed, a competitor using official match ammo will have ammo samples collected during the match and chronographed according to the provisions of Appendix C2 #28. Should the ammo so tested fail to meet the declared power factor, it shall be compared against the average of three rounds collected from the official delivery sample. If the samples collected during the match measure more than 10 power factor points below the delivery samples, the measured power factor of the ammo collected during the match shall be used for score and the provisions of Appendix C2, Item 38 or Item 39 shall apply."

That sure sounds like "official match ammo" will be chronographed along with shooter provided ammo. I originally thought that "official match ammo" was pre-qualified on power factor but that is not what the rule book says.

 

[waktasz]

I'm confused now too, since the top of C3 says this:

"Official Match Ammunition
Competitors using Official Match Ammunition are exempt from the requirements
of Appendix C2, Items 38 and 39 as appropriate for the declared power factor. "


It looks like the official match ammo is good to go as long as it is within 10 power factor in your own gun?