Value of an M1 Carbine?

[Jackal]

"What defines a "Early Universal"? What do i look for when i come across one?

USGI marked parts. First gen Universals used GI parts on a newly forged receiver. They often used a brand new production commercial barrel that usually shoots better than a GI barrel, so dont let that scare you. Later production models used cheap commercial parts/stamped charging handle.

 

[Bezoar]

dont forget they made CHANGES to the reciever itself in the later less desired models.
different casting, the bottom slot not being a slot, but two holes. just changes that most people consider to be dangerous for the user.

its like the few really nice m1 carbines of the "bad ones' ive found, its my face, and my hands. ill just wait for a really good deal and a new auto ordnance if the ammunition supply improves.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Didn't they modify the later rifles to use a double spring system somewhere or something like that? I'm not really up on Universal rifles, but remember scratching my head at the first one I ever saw years ago and a friend of mine who was into WW2 era weapons explaining some of the more obvious differences you could pick out to tell a USGI from Universal.

 

[Bezoar]

yeah forgot the double spring. everyone i find is the double spring variation.
and just everyone i have talked to considers the double spring univeral to be in the same grey area as springfield 1903 rifles made from drill rifles.

 

[Pacsd]

I saw one cross the auction block here several weeks ago fetch 650 with an clip.

 

[ulflyer]

I have a very decent early Inland, that I've test fired. Barrel and receiver are Inland, most other parts are mixed GI from being rearsenaled. At $800, its the least expensive one I have for sale, the others being in the 1000-1200 range with matching parts. Prices have gone out of sight as stated by others and I've not seen anything at gun shows in a long time that are reasonably priced. GI parts are readily available, but parts for most Universals' are very hard to come by, so be careful if you find one for sale. I do not know for a fact, but have heard from several folks, that a lot of AO/Kahr Carbine parts are not standard so GI parts won't fit.

To the gentleman above who asked if receivers are available: I believe there is an aftermarket maker called "Rockola" who is making carbine receivers. I know they make some for the M1 Garand. Go on the CMP forum and ask if you don't find anything by Googling.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The only "affordable" M1 carbines these days are the garage sale finds being sold by a clueless widow, or the after-market ones.
USGI M1 carbines that have import stamps on them are the best value right now. You can still find them in the $700 range. But a nice condition GI model, even with lots of mixed manufacture parts, will run a grand or more.
I have seen nothing but problems with AO (current production) ones. A friend bought one that will not cycle at all. Sent it back to AO, and they "fixed" it, and it STILL won't cycle. Basically a single shot carbine for $750. Not a good buy at all, and I advise everyone to stay away from them.
USGI is the way to go, if you want quality and reliability.

I'll second this.

I have both, a non-import Inland and a import Inland. The import was a pretty good deal compared to the non-import. I can't really tell a lot of difference in the way they shoot. The barrel on the import has seen more use so it isn't quite as accurate as the rebuild. I like shooting both of them.

The prices mentioned are what I'm seeing on the market, about $700 for a decent import. The thing about USGI is you get one hell for stout carbine. Everything is forged, no cast parts.

Don't mess around with new production guns. They are over priced for what you get. Try to find an import with muzzle erosion that gauges <2. If the seller doesn't know what that is buy a gauge and measure it yourself. That will insure that the barrel has some life left in it. The military replaced barrels when they were 3>. A new barrel will run you about $200 and that would be the part that may need replacing. Bolts need to be rebuilt occasionally but parts are cheap and the job isn't difficult.

 

[Speedo66]

One good thing about military carbines, aside from their stout internals, is that US military carbine ammo wasn't corrosive. Some US 30-06 ammo was, maybe some foreign military carbine ammo, but US carbine ammo never.

 

[ulflyer]

Good point Speedo66. I've had a bunch thru my hands in last few years and only one had a rough bore. Dang thing still shot well and reasonably accurate.

 

[maxxhavoc]

My AO carbine has been very good.

The stock did not meet my standards, it looked like it was stained and not finish sanded or sealed. Basically, the same as a CMP Boyds stock on a Garand. BLO applied with steel wool fixed it.

Accuracy is good, and it has been 100% reliable with good ammo. Reloading 30 carbine is a little more time consuming than pistol calibers, since they need to trimmed as necessary. Plated rounds from Xtreme hold up well, making it cheap to reload as well. Just a hair over 17 cents a round. I have been shooting it more, since IMR 4227 never disappeared off my local shelves. It's at about 1,300 rounds with no problems yet.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I thought it would be better than starting a new one.

I found a Universal carbine on an online auction. It's marked "Universal Hialesh", looks worn, and has no magazine. The price on it right now is very, very cheap.

Now several people on here were saying that some Universals are good and others are just junk. How can I tell which category this rifle falls into, and what would be a fair offer for it?

If there's anything you need me to look at, I could probably go inspect the gun tomorrow.

 

[ulflyer]

Bubba, assuming that it is one made it Florida, then it is a crap shoot. Lots of issues with those later ones and parts are very difficult to find.

Edited: I'm not sure my statement about those made in Florida is totally correct or not as these were some of the earlier, not later, ones made. Nevertheless, I'd advise anyone not to buy any Universal without at least being able to shoot it extensively first. Here's the most extensive information available about them:

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_universal.html

 

[CoalTrain49]

Now several people on here were saying that some Universals are good and others are just junk. How can I tell which category this rifle falls into, and what would be a fair offer for it?

Looks like <SN 9999 is what you want. I've read that later models can be dangerous due to design. Firing with an open bolt seems to be the issue.

USGI with import mark can be had for $700. Universal maybe half of that.

Be careful.

 

[kBob]

I believe what older Universals are the ones that had a GI op rod. Later universals I have had and tried to keep working (and I have none today , what does that tellyou?) had the potion of the oprod where the cocking handle is cut away so you can see the bolt cam lug doing its job.

I just about won't touch one of those these days for fear I might have a brain lapse and waste more money on them.

There were also peanut (that hole in the oprod handle) models sold with Teflon coatings, a plastic snap on guard over a drilled and tapped receiver, and even a separate bolt hold open button not on the oprod, but the receiver.

-kBob

 

[loose noose]

Mosin Bubba, I just purchased an Iver Johnson for $397.00 and he thru in 2 additional mags. Mine was made in 1990-91, the bore is actually pristine, and the receiver is all steel. It shoots really accurately. I've shot a little over 100 rounds thru it so far, and after disassembling the mags and cleaning them out haven't had a problem. I'm not sure where you're at but I got mine out of Prescott, Arizona. I saw a Plainfield in a pawn shop in Bullhead, Az. and the shopkeeper was asking $650.00 and it didn't even have a rear sight. They are great plinkers for sure.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

Bubba, assuming that it is one made it Florida, then it is a crap shoot. Lots of issues with those later ones and parts are very difficult to find.

Edited: I'm not sure my statement about those made in Florida is totally correct or not as these were some of the earlier, not later, ones made. Nevertheless, I'd advise anyone not to buy any Universal without at least being able to shoot it extensively first. Here's the most extensive information available about them:

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_universal.html

There's everything I needed to know about the Universal carbine and more. Thanks for sharing that.

So looking at the gun in the auction again, I see that it has a serial number over 100,000 and the peanut cutout on the bolt handle, so it looks like it's one of the junky ones. For the right price though, I'd still take it as a project. Is there anything I should go in and inspect on it?

 

[Ibmikey]

With all the advice given already if you are still considering a Universal then you deserve all future headaches.

 

[MechAg94]

Several years ago the CMP got 30,000 or so M1 carbines back from Italy or Spain. They were all sold within a couple years. $600 I think for service grade. Ever since they sold out, the prices have been climbing. I would not sell a USGI carbine without doing some research as prices keep going up.

If I didn't already have mine, I doubt I would try to buy one unless I just came across a deal.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

OK the auction closed yesterday. When I first bumped this thread, the gun was at about $150 with two days to go. I put $300 on it. It sold for right around $500. Again, that's for a beat-up, late edition Universal with no mag. I couldn't believe it.

Thanks for all the advice guys, it looks like you steered me away from a lemon. I'll keep my eyes open for other carbines in the future.