Vendors at gunshows filing off serial numbers

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What would be the point?

I've never understood why anyone would bother filing off a serial number. If the gun is stolen, then filing off the number only highlights the fact that there's something wrong with the gun, and by the way, you get arrested anyway for the defaced serial number.

Ask the professor why anyone would file off a number? What is the advantage?

- - - Yoda
 
Sometimes people say the darndest things!

I think it was correct of you to challenge him in class in front of your peers... and while it may go hard on you should he choose to make your life hell as a result, your challenge coupled with the grad student's assertion on your point is refreshing and should be a lesson to the other students in class.

While I do not doubt that ner do wells might sell non serialed firearms outta the trunk transactions of modified slightly warm weapons in the parking lot of a gun show; no licensed dealer in his or her right mind would jeopardize their livelihood by engaging in blatant criminal activity.

Never seen it once in the few decades I've been going to gunshows, myself. Antiques (pre 68 GCA) w/ no serial numbers... Yeah those I've seen. People doing transactions in the parking lot? Seen those too.

I would now begin to wonder about other items of educational esoterica said professor is bringing forth and presenting as "knowledge". Ya know? :rolleyes:
 
He's your professor. As much as I love to shove people's lies in their faces, and as big a dope as he may be, he can still flunk you for no good reason. Arguing with him would make the anonymous people on this board happy, but it will not serve you well.

Just keep your head down and graduate; then you can feel free to audit (sit in on) his future classes and make him look like a fool. I did that a couple times and it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
 
I've never seen a firearm that had its serial numbers removed. I've seen a firearm that had its serial numbers stamped out, but it was a confiscated gun and the fellow who had it was authorized by his agency to take it to armorer's school to butcher it some more.
 
DHJenkins said:
He's your professor. As much as I love to shove people's lies in their faces, and as big a dope as he may be, he can still flunk you for no good reason. Arguing with him would make the anonymous people on this board happy, but it will not serve you well.

Just keep your head down and graduate; then you can feel free to audit (sit in on) his future classes and make him look like a fool. I did that a couple times and it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
Click to expand...

This is twice in one day I have used this quote...

"I spent four years prostrate to the higher mind, got my paper
And I was free."

-Jim
 
come on guys, come clean with the kid.:cool:

the guy at the far corner of the tent with the shifty eyes. :scrutiny:

give him a wink and he will take you to the stelth tent and you can get numberless guns, c-4, claymors, gernades, missels or what ever else you want.:what:

2 for 1 if your from a mexican drug cartel.:neener:

im saving up for a balistic home defence missle.

i would get all warm and fuzzy knowing i was spending money being taught bs buy a moron.:banghead:

might want to send a letter to the dean.
 
While the professor is probably lying, I did see a gun with a defaced serial number at a gun show once, but not on a table. That's out of 20 years going to shows.

A guy walked up to the table I was helping with and wanted to sell a pistol. When we looked at it we saw that the serial number had been defaced. We told the owner that he was carrying a felony violation around with him and that no one in their right mind would be interested in the thing. He made some excuse and left.

As pointed out, if a gun is old enough it may not have a serial number, but that's not what your prof is talking about.

Offer to take him to a gun show and help him perform field research on the accuracy of the information he's operating from.
 
To answer your question...No. I've never run accross a defaced serial number at any show or from any dealer.

But you might return another query to him.

What type of gunshow "loophole" would exist if:

1) Everyones ID was flagged as "elegible" or "inelegible" for gun sales. All initial issuances would be "elegible" - convictions would automatically get those IDs confiscated and replaced with an "inelegible" flagged ID. No need for a "background" check - just check IDs. No need for the "extra" manpower to run the "system", and no worries of the system being down, no false positives, etc.

2)Ask what loophole would exist had Miranda been decided before Miller. Because Miller was decided based upon a "lack of presented evidence" (evidence which existed in abundence) -all that was lacking was a defense to present it. Miller was not represented. Therefore ANY infringement based upon the Miller decision is tainted.
Their "test" was the "of use to the Militia" test - and ALL weapons are - in one way or another - "of use to the Militia".

You might also point out that SCOTUS has also issued rulings that it is unconstitutional to tax ,charge a fee ,or license the exercise of a Right.
 
in my 50+ years of attending "Gun Shows" i have seen a few S/Ns defaced, NOT intentionally, but by over refinishing, over polishing/buffing and "enhancing" the overall appearance of the gun, i once owned (cir.1964ad) a Winchester M-92 that had about 75% of the S/N obliterated by the above mentioned procedures. it was a very nice looking rifle at a distance, but up close a real disaster, but for $25.00 i couldn't pass on it. sold it mid 1970s for $250.00.., 10X profit, not too bad, today any Winchester M-92 in 70%+ sells for $2000.00, saw one at a show a few months back that was 95%, the owner wanted $3900.00, :eek: it was a 44-40 Win.
 
Yoda said:
I've never understood why anyone would bother filing off a serial number. If the gun is stolen, then filing off the number only highlights the fact that there's something wrong with the gun, and by the way, you get arrested anyway for the defaced serial number.
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It eliminates the backtrace (if done correctly). This is useful protection for straw buyers who resell to traffickers. It is also of use to a criminal disposing of a weapon.

There's the federal law against it, which provides for "up to five years". There's also state laws with similar penalties.

I don't spend my time buying arms in "illegal gun markets", but knowing markets, I suspect that a firearm with an obliterated serial number runs at a risk-adjusted discount.

If the federal penalty for possession/sale/etc of a firearm with a defaced serial number was changed to a mandatory minimum sentence of five (or more) years, I think that it might impact the so-called "illegal gun market" in a positive way for the rest of us. I could be very wrong, though :).
 
dkk73 said:
Originally Posted by Deus Machina
Your professor's not only ignorant, but willing so. I won't even blame it on being liberal at this point--ignorance isn't just a liberal thing--but he's obviously generally a blockhead. I'm still honestly amazed how many people I've met in the educational fields that are enthusiastically ignorant and stubbornly closed-minded, and he's one of them.
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I say this carefully. I have spent years in academia outside of being an undergrad student, and I have a lot of respect for the culture.

Someone once pointed out to me that people can have crazy, wrong, or extreme views in academia because "if they are wrong, it doesn't matter".

This can result in free thought, good discussion, and protection of important minority ideas (otherwise maybe we'd be in the dark ages still). But, it can protect a fair amount of idiocy. Especially if padded in tenure.

Just wait until libertarianism and gun rights become more fashionable. Then it'll be a wave of academic posturing to support it. Sigh..
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I invite you to examine the writings of Dr. Mike Adams for counter examples. Liberal, Democrat, socialist, statist, left-leaning thought is celebrated and encouraged, indoctrinated from day one at many schools.

Conservative, pro-gun, libertarian*, or Christian thoughts and statements are either actively discouraged or simply ignored.

*It's been my experience that many college students who label themselves libertarian lack an understanding of libertarian principles beyond legalizing drugs. I can't speak about professors, but a pertinant note nonetheless.
 
While I do not doubt that ne'er do wells might sell non-serialed firearms in out-of-the-trunk transactions of modified slightly warm weapons in the parking lot of a gun show, no licensed dealer in his or her right mind would jeopardize their livelihood by engaging in blatant criminal activity.
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Seems to me the parking lot of a gunshow would be the LAST place to sell hot guns out of the trunk of a car. Maybe in the parking lot of your local discount liquor store, but at a gunshow full of on- and off-duty cops? Doesn't make sense.
 
Some people only lean the hard way. Buy your professor a cheap gun. Have him scratch off the serial number and take it himself to a gun show to sell. I think he will then understand.
 
Without a citation, it's worthless. As a professor, obliged to uphold academic honesty policies, he knows that. He also knows he's got a bully pulpit and a captive audience.
 
I know a dealer who accidentally bought a gun that had the serial filed. He didnt get into any serious trouble but he sure as crap wont do it again, :mad:.
 
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Your professor must be anti-gun and an idiot. No one in the class is going to tell the professor he/she is FOS because they fear a bad grade. MOST people that talk about guns have very little to no knowledge about guns. Take this idiot to a gun show and challenge him to find a gun with a serial number filed off.

I have gone to many a gun show and NEVER found a firearm with filed off serial numbers.

Besides, gun shows are not the source of illegal weapons getting into the hands of violent criminals.

If one wants a gun and is a convicted felon all one has to do is go to the urban areas of major city, whip out a couple of hundred dollars, and they can buy a gun.

These anti-gun people refuse to acknowledge facts.
 
has anyone here ever come across defaced serial numbers at a gun show?
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I came across one just last year. It was probably the third one I've seen in only 50 years of going to gun shows. (and I've looked at and handled a lot of guns.)
 
Just wait until libertarianism and gun rights become more fashionable. Then it'll be a wave of academic posturing to support it. Sigh..
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I can't wait!!! Any idea when this is scheduled to happen? I would like to be cryogenically frozen and thawed out on that day.
 
Thank you for all the responses

This is pretty much the answer I assumed I'd get. The big thing for me is that it brings up a credibility issue. I'm pretty savvy on gun laws, but there are other aspects of research that I'm not to quick on and if he's so woefully wrong on this aspect, it calls into question other topics that we'll be relying on him to be my first source of information. I'm just going to let it die and hold the information he presents with a more critical eye. I can't call him out because it's a small class and the style of the work we present is up to his interpretation and grading. I can't risk failing this class. He's a self-described conservative but from this interaction has all the markings of a major anti.:banghead: I like the suggestion of taking him to a gun show, but I think the odds of that happening are less than the odds of me doing naked cartwheels through downtown...
 
As far as the source of illegal guns

I've got a peer reviewed essay on the matter that if the mods will leave this thread open long enough, I can transpose the information tonight after class. That little bit is rather interesting.
 
If one wants a gun and is a convicted felon all one has to do is go to the urban areas of major city, whip out a couple of hundred dollars, and they can buy a gun.
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Or if one is a convicted felon from Montana, they can just go to any gun store and purchase a firearm legally. In Montana all gun rights are restored as per the state constitution once a felon discharges his or her sentence. I'm not sure, but I have heard that Texas and Florida are the same way.
 
Presenting the info your prof presented as fact is in my experience a big no no at most univerities. They can present as opinion as pointed out by other posters here but as fact which is easily disproved - no.

Take the issue up with the Dean of the College of what ever Criminal Science falls under. You may be surprised by the result.
 
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