= Verified with PV/Alliant customer service = Alliant to suspend canister powders significantly - Time for comparable powder substitutions again

[Jim Watson]

And to think, we used to be The Arsenal of Democracy.
Fortunately I bought some Bullseye for my .45 Minor loads the last time I ordered.

 

[Charlie98]

And to think, we used to be The Arsenal of Democracy.

...and now we are the King of Outsourcing.

 

[LiveLife]

Fakebook is not a reliable source of information. Never has been - Never will be ... Even if in this instance the basic claims are accurate, it doesn’t belong here without verification.

Go to the Powder Valley website ... Scroll down to the Facebook icon ... Click on it, it takes you to the Facebook page Powder Valley controls ... There you will see the Alliant announcement ... trust.. but verify.

Email sent to Powder Valley for verification regarding FB page announcement direct linked from PV webpage - https://www.facebook.com/people/Powder-Valley/100064328033682/

Got email verification from Powder Valley: (Added to OP and thread title)

Jacob Love ​

From: [email protected]​

To: John​

​

Fri, May 10 at 6:44 AM​

​

John,​

​

This is a true post, and we weren’t hacked. Our Rep at The Kinetic Group reached out with that statement and told us any open POs we have open are no[w] cancelled in their system. They will reach out when they have something to ship us, last time we had to buy a 5 year supply of a couple different powders to get a small amount of powders that everyone is looking for.​

​

Thanks,​

​

Jacob Love​

Powder Valley​

Merchandising Manager​

620-229-8685​

 

[LiveLife]

Now that Alliant stopping production of canister powders has been verified with unknown certainty when they would start production again, resuming OP focus of listing same or similar/comparable powders to help THR members/guests identify substitute powders for their loads/development.

I went over the listing last night and made some updates to better match up powders by burn rate/application (Like Sport Pistol with N320/Titegroup instead of W231/HP-38. Green Dot with W244 instead of W231/HP-38). Will continue adding newer powders like Winchester StaBALL powders while expanding the listing with more similar/comparable powders to help with powder substitutions. Also adding origin country of manufacture for those curious. (Will update OP with updated listings)

I tell you, never expected to see Alliant stopping production of canister powders during my retirement years after I have transitioned most of my pistol/PCC loads to Promo/Red Dot, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, BE-86 (And was planning to switch to AR Comp for .223). Thankfully, I have well developed/established accurate loads from my USPSA days and recent decades load development to return back to WST, Titegroup, W231/HP-38, WSF, H335.

Moving forward, I will work on load development with No 2, W244, revisit CFE Pistol/AutoComp and conduct .223 55/62/69/75 gr load development (With 0.1 gr incremental powder work up at the range) with TAC/BL-C(2) and StaBALL Match.


(NOTE: This is a group project. If you see listing for similar/comparable powders with "?" better represented based on your experience, let us know and will update the list)

Disclosure: While efforts were made by THR members based on available information obtained by the posting date, consider the accuracy posted with a grain of salt and please always reference published load data when developing your loads. When powders are recommended for calibers that lack current published load data, use them at your own risk.


Same exact powders (Same published load data, powder burn rate, charge weight and volume):

- Winchester W231 and Hodgdon HP-38
- Hodgdon HS-6 and Winchester W540
- Hodgdon HS-7 and Winchester W571
- Ramshot Silhouette and Winchester WAP
- Ramshot Enforcer and Accurate 4100
- Winchester W296 and Hodgdon H110
- Hodgdon H4227 and IMR 4227
- Accurate 2230 and Ramshot X-Terminator
- Accurate 2520 and Ramshot Wild Boar
- Alliant RL15 and Norma 203B
- Winchester W760 and Hodgdon H414

Comparable/close powders (Different load data, similar burn rate for reference BUT MUST USE published charge weight):

- Alliant Bullseye and Vectan Ba 10
- Alliant Red Dot and Vectan Ba 9.5
- Alliant Red Dot and Alliant Promo (Alliant recommends using Red Dot load data by weight and not by volume)
- Alliant Red Dot and IMR Red
- Hodgdon Clays and Alliant Clay Dot (for shotgun loads)
- Hodgdon Clays and IMR Trail Boss?
- Hodgdon Clays/WST and Vectan Prima SV (for shotgun loads)
- Winchester WST and Ramshot Competition
- Accurate No. 2 and Shooters World Clean Shot/Lovex D032-03
- Hodgdon Titegroup and Alliant Sport Pistol
- Hodgdon Titegroup and Vihtavuori N320
- Hodgdon Titegroup and IMR Target
- Hodgdon Titegroup and Vectan AS (for pistol loads) / Prima V (for shotgun loads)
- Winchester W231/HP-38 and Ramshot Zip
- Winchester W231/HP-38 and Vectan 206V (for shotgun loads)
- Alliant Green Dot and Winchester W244?
- Alliant Green Dot and IMR Green?
- Accurate No. 5 and Shooters World Auto Pistol/Lovex D036-03
- Accurate No. 5 and Vectan D-20/GM3 (for shotgun loads)
- Vihtavuori N330 and Vectan A1
- Alliant Unique/Universal and Vectan Ba 9
- Alliant Unique and Hodgdon Universal
- Alliant Unique and IMR Unequal?
- Alliant Unique and Alliant BE-86
- Alliant Unique and Alliant 20/28
- Alliant Power Pistol and Alliant BE-86 (Power Pistol is canister version of BE-84 and slower burning than BE-86)
- Alliant BE-86 and Alliant Herco (for 40S&W based on 2004 Alliant load data. No current load data from Alliant for Herco and 40S&W)
- Alliant Herco and Vectan A0
- Hodgdon CFE Pistol and Winchester AutoComp
- Winchester AutoComp and Shooters World Ultimate Pistol/Lovex D036-07
- CFE Pistol and Ramshot Silhouette?
- Winchester WSF and Ramshot Silhouette?
- Accurate No. 7 and Shooters World Major Pistol/Lovex D037-01
- Accurate No. 7 and Vectan Ba 7.5
- Alliant Blue Dot and IMR Blue?
- Accurate No. 9 and Shooters World Heavy Pistol/Lovex D037-02
- Accurate No. 9 and Vectan Ba 6.5
- Winchester W296/H110 and Alliant 300MP
- Winchester W296/H110 and Vectan Ba 6.5
- Winchester W296/H110 and Vihtavuori N110
- Accurate 11FS and Winchester Alliant 300-MP/Hodgdon H110/Winchester W296?
- Accurate 5744 and Shooters World Cowboy/Lovex D060-01
- Accurate 1680 and Shooters World Blackout/Lovex D063-02
- Hodgdon H335 and Ramshot TAC
- Hodgdon H335 and Accurate 2230
- Hodgdon H335 and Shooters World AR Plus/Lovex D073-04
- Ramshot TAC and Alliant AR Comp
- Hodgdon 4895 and IMR 4895
- IMR 4895 and Accurate 2495?
- Hodgdon Varget and Accurate 4064/Alliant RL15/IMR 4064?
- Hodgdon Varget and Lovex S062-01
- Hodgdon BL-C(2) and StaBALL Match
- Hodgdon BL-C(2) and Winchester 748
- Hodgdon BL-C(2) and Lovex D073-05
- Hodgdon CFE223 and Accurate 2520
- Hodgdon CFE223 and Shooters World Match Rifle/Lovex D073-06
- Hodgdon 4350 and Lovex S070-01
- Hodgdon 4831 and Lovex S071-01
- Norma MRP and Alliant RL22?


Accurate powders:
No 2 - USA
No 5 - USA
No 7 - Belgium now USA
No 9 - Belgium now USA
1680 - Israel now USA

Alliant powders:
Bullseye - USA
All "Dot" powders - USA
Promo - USA
Sport Pistol - USA
Unique - USA
BE-86 - USA
Power Pistol - USA
Herco - USA
Reloder 7 - Sweden
Reloder 10X - Sweden
Reloder 15 - Sweden
Reloder 16 - Switzerland
Reloder 17 - Switzerland
Reloder 19 - Sweden
Reloder 22 - Sweden
Reloder 25 - Sweden
Reloder 26 - Switzerland
Reloder 33 - Switzerland
Reloder 50 - Switzerland

Goex powders - USA

Hodgdon powders:
Titewad - USA
HP-38 - USA
Titegroup - USA
Clays - Australia now Canada
International Clays - Australia now Canada
Universal - Australia now Canada
CFE Pistol - USA
HS-6 - USA
Longshot - USA
H110 - USA
H322 - Australia
H335 - USA
H380 - USA
H414 - USA
CFE 223 - USA
Lil' Gun - USA
Hybrid 100V - USA
Benchmark - Australia
BL-C(2) - USA
H4198 - Australia
H4227 - Australia
H4350 - Australia
H4831 - Australia
H4831 SC - Australia
H4895 - Australia now USA?
Varget - Australia
50 BMG - Australia
H1000 - Australia
Leverevolution - USA
Superformance - USA
Retumbo - Australia
US869 - USA

IMR powders:
700X - USA
800X - USA
PB - Canada
IMR Trail Boss - Australia
SR 4756 - Canada
SR 4759 - Canada
SR 7625 - Canada
I3031 - Canada
I4007 SSC - Canada
I4064 - Canada
I4166 - Canada
I4198 - Australia
I4227 - Australia
I4320 - Canada
I4350 - Canada
I4451 - Canada
I4895 - Canada now USA?
I4831 - Canada
I4955 - Canada
I7828 - Canada
I7828 SSC - Canada
I7977 - Canada
8208 XBR - Australia

Maxam/CSB powders - Spain

Norma powders - Switzerland & 4 other countries
N203 - Sweden
MRP - Sweden

Ramshot powders:
Silhouette - USA
ZIP - Belgium
True Blue - Belgium
TAC - Belgium

Shooters World/Lovex powders - Czech Republic

Vectan powders - Sweden

VihtaVuori powders - Finland

Winchester Powders:
StaBALL powders - USA
AA Lite - USA
231 - USA
244 - USA
WST - USA
WSF - USA
WSH - USA
AutoComp - USA
296 - USA
748 - USA
760 - USA
Supreme 780 - USA

 

[FROGO207]

Having experience, age, and expendable cash to be able to put supplies aside for such times I feel for those that are just starting in reloading or are "just keeping ahead of the wolves" with food and shelter.

In the future I will again help local folks with a hand up when things get stupid again. And they will get stupid again sooner than any of us want to admit I am afraid.

My reccomendation is 1.5 election cycles at a minimum of anticipated usage of ammo or components to be put back as a reserve. I am still working on pre covid supplies whithout more purchases.

 

[LiveLife]

My reccomendation is 1.5 election cycles at a minimum of anticipated usage of ammo or components to be put back as a reserve. I am still working on pre covid supplies whithout more purchases.

That's fine for "domestic politics" related cycles. But what will you do when your stock of Alliant powders run out and CSG/Alliant hasn't returned production of canister powders due to continuing/expanding "foreign" war/military demand for EU/Middle East/Asia regions?

What powder substitution considerations would you make?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Got email verification from Powder Valley: (Added to OP and thread title)

Jacob Love ​

From: [email protected]​

To: John​

​

Fri, May 10 at 6:44 AM​

​

John,​

​

This is a true post, and we weren’t hacked. Our Rep at The Kinetic Group reached out with that statement and told us any open POs we have open are no[w] cancelled in their system. They will reach out when they have something to ship us, last time we had to buy a 5 year supply of a couple different powders to get a small amount of powders that everyone is looking for.​

​

Thanks,​

​

Jacob Love​

Powder Valley​

Merchandising Manager​

620-229-8685​

Do we know with any certainty that this is all vendors or just Powder Valley. I checked with my local who says SportsSouth (Shreveport, LA) is not stopping Alliant shipments and has not made a similar announcement. Nothing from Alliant yet besides Paul’s non statement?

 

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Blue Dot alternates: VV N305, AA7, SW Major Pistol,

Was that supposed to be VV N105 perhaps?

 

[Jim Watson]

If so, I do not think they make N105 any more.

I may have started a run on Alliant; I called my old time PPC shooting colleague who has loaded all pistol ammo with Bullseye for decades, and he will see if his regular dealer has any.

 

[Captain*kirk]

This is devastating. All my handgun and some rifle loads were developed around Unique, and while I have a fair stockpile of it, I could run through it fairly quickly. The only powder I see consistently in stock lately is Accurate, and you have AA2 as a substitute for Unique in your listing. How 'close' is it in terms of pressure and MV?

 

[Jim Watson]

Powder Valley shows some Alliant still in stock. BE86 is even on sale for a mere $36.39 a pound, $245.16 for 8 lbs.

 

[LiveLife]

Do we with any certainty that this is all vendors or just Powder Valley. I checked with my local who says SportsSouth (Shreveport, LA) is not stopping Alliant shipments and has not made a similar announcement. Nothing from Alliant yet besides Paul’s non statement?

OK, I went right to the source and called Alliant customer service just now at (866) 286-7436.

Person who answered the phone did verify that suspension of canister version of Alliant powders is indeed due to global shortage of nitrocellulose and while they are not stopping production of powder completely, canister versions will be suspended significantly while Alliant builds back up stock of nitrocellulose to resume large scale production again for canister powders. He could not comment when that would be.

When I asked for email confirmation and mentioned that THR member Paul @Alliant Reloading could not confirm/deny this announcement, he referred me to "Steve" who was in charge over him and to leave a message on voicemail for email reply.

This is Friday and it was indicated that Steve may not be in the office until next week. I will post back when I get an email response back from Steve.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

OK, I went right to the source and called Alliant customer service just now at (866) 286-7436.

Person who answered the phone did verify that suspension of canister version of Alliant powders is indeed due to global shortage of nitrocellulose and while they are not stopping production of powder completely, canister versions will be suspended while Alliant builds up stock of nitrocellulose to resume large scale production again for canister powders. He could not comment when that would be.

When I asked for email confirmation and mentioned that THR member Paul @Alliant Reloading could not confirm/deny this announcement, he referred me to "Steve" who was in charge over him and to leave a message on voicemail for email reply.

This is Friday and it was indicated that Steve may not be in the office until next week. I will post back when I get an email response back from Steve.

Thank you. Maybe next time there’s a Fakebook scream this kind of verification will be done first. I’m pretty sure this thread is going to drive a few nails into Alliants consumer products side. Nice work. Sorry to have interrupted the call to abandon ship. Carry on.

 

[LiveLife]

Thank you ... of verification ... Nice work.

You are welcome. And I want to emphasize that it was mentioned during the phone call that canister versions will be suspended significantly (previous post edited and thread titled revised) as to production of powder will not stop completely but availability would be impacted. Perhaps Steve's email will shed more light on what suspended significantly would entail.

Sorry to have interrupted the call to abandon ship. Carry on.

OK, there you go guys/gals, now we can sound the alarm for real.

 

[ballman6711]

I checked with my local who says SportsSouth (Shreveport, LA) is not stopping Alliant shipments and has not made a similar announcement.

I wonder if the vendor has a stockpile of it and feels they can continue shipping it out for awhile, or

And I want to emphasize that it was mentioned during the phone call that canister versions will be suspended significantly (previous post edited and thread titled revised) as to production of powder will not stop completely but availability would be impacted.

If they are still going to make canister powder but in much smaller quantity, and only ship it out to certain "preferred" vendors.

This doesn't really affect me directly since I don't use Alliant powders, but it will affect me indirectly when everyone starts switching over to the powders I normally use. At least I got a pound of Bullseye to try, but it might end up like Trailboss.

chris

 

[FROGO207]

That's fine for "domestic politics" related cycles. But what will you do when your stock of Alliant powders run out and CSG/Alliant hasn't returned production of canister powders due to continuing/expanding "foreign" war/military demand for EU/Middle East/Asia regions?

What powder substitution considerations would you make?

I already have tried a large assortment of other brands/types of propellants for many of my established loads. I have kept fair to good records of how they also performed. There is always a plan B or C usually from another manufacturer that will work as good or almost as good for most every load I consider the "best one". Past shortages have pushed me to try other options and in a few cases I am glad I did as I sometimes found a better " best one" while searching.
Again with prices increasing and supplies (ers) decreasing, the newer reloader is struggling more to catch up.

 

[shoebox1.1]

My takeaway from all this.. whatever it is you want and can get.. buy it now!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

My takeaway from all this.. whatever it is you want and can get.. buy it now!

It’s been that way since the GCA ‘68 passed. It’s just become more obvious lately - since about 1996.

 

[Charlie98]

My reccomendation is 1.5 election cycles at a minimum of anticipated usage of ammo or components to be put back as a reserve. I am still working on pre covid supplies whithout more purchases.

and CSG/Alliant hasn't returned production of canister powders due to continuing/expanding "foreign" war/military demand for EU/Middle East/Asia regions?

My concern is the decent into uncertainty. Not trying to get too political, but if we continue the current trend of brushfire conflicts escalating into regional, or major, conflicts, the demands on the munition makers will certainly pick up. We've already seen some foreign sources of ammunition and reloading components disappear from our domestic market... for whatever reason. 3 or 4 years from now, assuming we continue with our current... *ahem*... political structure... *ahem* it may very well not matter that Alliant doesn't sell retail powders. I'm just looking at it from a realistic point of view.


As far as substituting powders... making long-range plans for substitutions may be yodeling in the wind. By the time I exhaust my supply of Unique, for example, one/some/all of the 'equivalent' powders I would choose may not even be available. With very few exceptions (VV, SW, pulldown...) Hodgdon now has a monopoly on the market. I think Hodgdon is a good company, but because they don't actually MAKE any of the powders they sell, they, too, are at the mercy of what might be available.

 

[LV Gun]

I started making the switch away from Alliant 2 years ago due to them not being very available here in LV and I was looking for a 700X replacement also, I completed it 8 months ago and have not looked back. I had a feeling 2 years ago this might be happening just because of how hard it has been to get there powder here in LV. I am completely happy with the Hodgdon family of powder brands I am currently using Enforcer, Silhouette, W244 and HP38 .

 

[reddog81]

Was that supposed to be VV N105 perhaps?

Probably N350

 

[armoredman]

Hmm, n ow I wonder if I can reload 9mm with homemade black powder...just kidding. I have enough of everything to last for the foreseeable future. No need to be caught up in a "run".

 

[shoebox1.1]

Look what y’all made me do! Went for a pound of hp38/231 and got 244… and a thou SPP… and a thou LPP…. And 500 Xtreme plated SWC’s

 

[brewer12345]

Hmm, n ow I wonder if I can reload 9mm with homemade black powder...just kidding. I have enough of everything to last for the foreseeable future. No need to be caught up in a "run".

Get you a cap and ball. Lots of fun, shooting skills translate to modern firearms, and you can use black powder/substitute/homemade powder plus homemade caps plus home cast balls if it comes down to it.

 

[AJC1]

I pulled off 2k spm for 120 yesterday.... a deal on primers is the only thing more important than powder... I can make or reuse the rest....