atblis
Member
We do we keep talking about adding carbon to steel? Does that even apply when dealing with cartridge brass?
Very, very, very unusual annealing method
- Thread starter gamestalker
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blarby
Member
"the problem is that the time isn't long enough to introduce carbon.
also, the old timers weren't adding carbon by dropping steel parts into oil, the oil just controls the cooling rate. The time at temperature in the oil isn't long enough to add carbon to any significant depth. Unless of course the whole bucket of oil is in the oven at 1500 degrees for a few hours."
^^^This^^^^
Its not like seasoning a piece of iron for cooking- he doesn't have infinite time for the bonding and "curing" to "season" in any reasonable way ( for us lay-people, this example was given- not that this is the actual process)
Thats why I suspected some sort of adulterant, Owen.
Stalker... I think you need to obtain some samples from this gentleman.
And I think the rest of us, if he can get them, should try and duplicate the process.
If you get one Gamestalker, I'll take it to the university of Portland applied materials lab and have them gas spectrometer a sample cut from the neck and see what we come up with. Heck we might even be able to get some other interesting tests run too.
also, the old timers weren't adding carbon by dropping steel parts into oil, the oil just controls the cooling rate. The time at temperature in the oil isn't long enough to add carbon to any significant depth. Unless of course the whole bucket of oil is in the oven at 1500 degrees for a few hours."
^^^This^^^^
Its not like seasoning a piece of iron for cooking- he doesn't have infinite time for the bonding and "curing" to "season" in any reasonable way ( for us lay-people, this example was given- not that this is the actual process)
Thats why I suspected some sort of adulterant, Owen.
Stalker... I think you need to obtain some samples from this gentleman.
And I think the rest of us, if he can get them, should try and duplicate the process.
If you get one Gamestalker, I'll take it to the university of Portland applied materials lab and have them gas spectrometer a sample cut from the neck and see what we come up with. Heck we might even be able to get some other interesting tests run too.
silicon could do this. maybe your buddy sprays the case with wd40, heats it up cherry red then quenches in oil. this may infuse enough silicon to change the structure to duplex brass. the second heating and quench could then be a heat treating process.
this is a wag, but your friend may bite if you throw him the bait.
murf
this is a wag, but your friend may bite if you throw him the bait.
murf
Remo223
member
there's no silicon in wd40...unless they've made changed to wd40 that I don't know about
gamestalker
member
If I can swipe one from his reloading room the next time I see him, I'll get it sent off to you Blarby, or anyone else who has the resources to decode the process. I'll also attempt to snoop around and see if there is something that's looks out of place concerning his reloading supplies. The primary isuue with that is I really don't know what I would be looking for.
After reading all of these responses, I'm convinced beyond any doubt that he is hoarding some very well protected process that he was trusted with years back by his old timer reloading buddy. In all honesty, I'm feeling over whelmed by the information most of you have posted in response. I'm not rich in brain cells, well at least not in this particular subject matter. Myself, I do just fine with conventional reloading practices and have absolutely no desire to explore someting as complex as altering the properties of brass.
Unless someone here stumbles onto something that clearly explains and confirms this process as plausable or busted, I think it would be wise if we let this topic die to prevent someone with as little knowledge in this area as me, from getting their self hurt.
After reading all of these responses, I'm convinced beyond any doubt that he is hoarding some very well protected process that he was trusted with years back by his old timer reloading buddy. In all honesty, I'm feeling over whelmed by the information most of you have posted in response. I'm not rich in brain cells, well at least not in this particular subject matter. Myself, I do just fine with conventional reloading practices and have absolutely no desire to explore someting as complex as altering the properties of brass.
Unless someone here stumbles onto something that clearly explains and confirms this process as plausable or busted, I think it would be wise if we let this topic die to prevent someone with as little knowledge in this area as me, from getting their self hurt.
USSR
Member
Hmm, reminds me of the Peter Sellers movie "Being There". Chance (Peter Sellers) is a simplistic gardener that everybody mistakes as a brilliant and highly educated man. Not to be rude, gamestalker, but my money is on your friend not knowing what he is doing and a danger to himself.
Don
Fantastic, that is what I would have told the annealer of the hot dipped cases, fantastic!
As to the rest? Have you no criteria for standards, fire a case once then neck size it 5 times and then start over by full length sizing it, I have never sorted that one out, how is it possible to start over with a case that has been fired 6 times, a case that has been fired 6 times may not continue to compress at the case head because of work hardening. Then there is the part where the case head flattens because of high pressure, just how much pressure is required to flatten a case head with one firing and then there are those that are so bored with reloading they do not separate cases by case head stamps and moan and groan when they find it necessary to trim cases.
When someone in the real world tells me and or shows me something I should not be expected to believe I reserve the right to question all the answers. Road testing brass, there is nothing like new brass when forming cases, the reaction to being worked is predictable, after a case is annealed, the case responds in a predictable manner, the first test I would perform on the hot dipped (twice) cases is NECK UP, I would neck the hot dipped cases from 30/05 to 35 Whelen, I do that with 280 Remington cases, I split 30%+ if the cases are nickel, I do not anticipate loosing any if the cases are new/unfired/brass cases. AND then I neck them back down.
Crushing new cases: I install a forming/case trimming die into the press UPSIDE DOWN then install a case in the shell holder and raise the ram, a good case will fold like a bellows or an accordion without effort, work hardened case are not easy to fold and could crush/split.
I know work hardened cases are the rage with the bench resters, as they say after a case is fired 6+ times the case is all it will ever be, that does not explain cases that are as thin as .0025 thick through the body, so thin it is difficult to size them in any manner without the case coming apart when the ram is lowered, or the case coming apart when the bolt is rotated and pulled back for extraction.
F. Guffey
As to the rest? Have you no criteria for standards, fire a case once then neck size it 5 times and then start over by full length sizing it, I have never sorted that one out, how is it possible to start over with a case that has been fired 6 times, a case that has been fired 6 times may not continue to compress at the case head because of work hardening. Then there is the part where the case head flattens because of high pressure, just how much pressure is required to flatten a case head with one firing and then there are those that are so bored with reloading they do not separate cases by case head stamps and moan and groan when they find it necessary to trim cases.
When someone in the real world tells me and or shows me something I should not be expected to believe I reserve the right to question all the answers. Road testing brass, there is nothing like new brass when forming cases, the reaction to being worked is predictable, after a case is annealed, the case responds in a predictable manner, the first test I would perform on the hot dipped (twice) cases is NECK UP, I would neck the hot dipped cases from 30/05 to 35 Whelen, I do that with 280 Remington cases, I split 30%+ if the cases are nickel, I do not anticipate loosing any if the cases are new/unfired/brass cases. AND then I neck them back down.
Crushing new cases: I install a forming/case trimming die into the press UPSIDE DOWN then install a case in the shell holder and raise the ram, a good case will fold like a bellows or an accordion without effort, work hardened case are not easy to fold and could crush/split.
I know work hardened cases are the rage with the bench resters, as they say after a case is fired 6+ times the case is all it will ever be, that does not explain cases that are as thin as .0025 thick through the body, so thin it is difficult to size them in any manner without the case coming apart when the ram is lowered, or the case coming apart when the bolt is rotated and pulled back for extraction.
F. Guffey
mc223
Member
He is just over heating the brass and cooling it down. The brass would only be over softened. The oil does nothing to the brass. Cept make it oily.
BigBob3006
Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2005
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gamestalker,
I have never heard of this technique before. The only thing I can think of that uses such a technique was a friend of mine who made custom knives, and he used it on a fully shaped blade to harden the steel without making it brittle.
I don't know what I'm talking about here, butt I wouldn't use this method with out talking to someone who knows a a lot more about metallurgy than I do.
I have never heard of this technique before. The only thing I can think of that uses such a technique was a friend of mine who made custom knives, and he used it on a fully shaped blade to harden the steel without making it brittle.
I don't know what I'm talking about here, butt I wouldn't use this method with out talking to someone who knows a a lot more about metallurgy than I do.
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