Victim shoots Robber in East Atlanta

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Actually, you'd be hard pressed to find a civil attorney in a Castle Doctrine state who would bring suit on behalf of an assailant in a justified self-defense case.

There are civil sanctions issued by the court against parties (and their attorney(s)) who bring a meritless lawsuit on purpose. And, yes, the court does issue them. If that fails, there are affirmative defenses or other procedural techniques that would make the lawsuit go away quickly with minimal cost - not to mention you could file suit against them for bringing a non-meritorious and malicious lawsuit. If you prevail on that, you can recover quite a bit.

The law cuts both ways.
 
At first I thought the shooter/victim had been carrying in the bar but I guess he got the gun from the car. (supposedly) Either way I really dont care, +1 for the good guys.
 
SC Castle Protection of Persons and Property Act

PROTECTION OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY ACT

The stated intent of the legislation is to codify the common law castle doctrine, which recognizes that a person’s home is his castle, and to extend the doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and the person’s place of business. This bill authorizes the lawful use of deadly force under certain circumstances against an intruder or attacker in a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle. The bill provides that there is no duty to retreat if (1) the person is in a place where he has a right to be, including the person’s place of business, (2) the person is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and (3) the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily injury, or the commission of a violent crime. A person who lawfully uses deadly force is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action, unless the person against whom deadly force was used is a law enforcement officer acting in the performance of his official duties and he identifies himself in accordance with applicable law or the person using deadly force knows or reasonably should have known the person is a law enforcement officer.

H.4301 (R412) was signed by the Governor on June 9, 2006. (emphasis mine)

IANAL, BUT it seems to me that this law prevents any civil or criminal action if you were not the instigator.
 
Hmmmm........
Jamarcus
popular hangout, Standard Food & Spirits,
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I don't know about you people, but I rarely hang out at a place called "Food and Spirits."
Non the less, the intended victim did well.
 
Actually, you'd be hard pressed to find a civil attorney in a Castle Doctrine state who would bring suit on behalf of an assailant in a justified self-defense case.

There are civil sanctions issued by the court against parties (and their attorney(s)) who bring a meritless lawsuit on purpose. And, yes, the court does issue them. If that fails, there are affirmative defenses or other procedural techniques that would make the lawsuit go away quickly with minimal cost - not to mention you could file suit against them for bringing a non-meritorious and malicious lawsuit. If you prevail on that, you can recover quite a bit.

The law cuts both ways.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but depending upon the state, things can get more complicated with civil suits. Example: In CO, to win monetary damages, the defendant has to be found more than 50% liable for the death. If a jury finds the defendant 51% and the victim 49%, then the victim gets 1% of the amount that (s)he is suing for. I worked as an MSF instructor a few years ago for a man who was sued by the husband of a woman (student) who died riding a motorcycle at the range during a class. It was completely the womans fault. The entire suit was explained to all of the instructors so that we were aware of what kind of trouble we could be looking at if we don't do our job. The owner was found not liable.
 
There is another way to look at this incident and I'm not sure that this is a good shoot.

He asked the stranger what he wanted, and noticed the man was reaching for his waistband or pockets, (no deadly threat yet) the detective said. Instinctively, the passenger (initiating an attack) shoved open his door, knocking the suspected robber back a few feet, (and instead of escaping from the threat decided to stay and fight.) Willis said. The woman started screaming.

The man got out of the truck (...to continue the attack on the still unarmed suspected robber...) and the suspected robber (...seeing a gun in the hand of the man who just assaulted him...) raised a weapon at him, (...in self defense?) Willis said. “When he saw that, he just (...continued the attack and...) started shooting,” the detective said.
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All is well that ends well, the other fool is DEAD! Trust me on this, he will have a record, or will be an ex of his couple of month girl friend, no matter.

He, the shooter, was in his vehicle, where he retrieved his gun from.
He is alive, that is all that counts, anything else is fixable, dead is not!

Let us see the end result, and not frighten the denizens of THR, so they will leave their guns at home, in case they have to shoot some one, when they carry it.
 
JDoe

You are basing your presumtions on a reporter's account of what happened, not the police report which may differ considerably.

(...to continue the attack on the still unarmed suspected robber...)
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and the suspected robber (...seeing a gun in the hand of the man who just assaulted him...) raised a weapon at him,
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How was he unarmed if he produced a weapon? Just wondering...
 
Unless you live in or near Altanta you don't know whats its like there.

My family lives near there and I grew up there until I went in the Marine Corps in 1994.

In the past 10yrs or so, pan handlers have become a scorge on the city. They are as common as leaves on a tree there and as aggressive as rabid pole cat. The guy probally thought the would be robber was a pan handler, hence why he rolled the window down.

Something else... Not a good shoot?? All you fricken keyboard commandos out there better get your heads out of your asses. Imagine a guy walks up to you, then reaches in his waistband and draws a pistol. Takes what all of .5 a second??

I know all you Mall Ninjas out there practice the mexican with your Glock 17 (just in case), so you've got it down to a science. I'm sure Hommie the gang banger practices just like you do, so just assume he's as good as you are at presenting a weapon... Most folks can't even make a choice about weather to swerve to avoid a tree rat in the road, let alone make a good descision about life and death fight or flight in that amount of time.

1.) This guy is DAMN LUCKY he was able to reconize the gun threat, then throw his attacker off balance with the door and shoot him with his pistol.

2.) That woman driving the car probally freaked out and froze up. They more than likely wern't going anywhere, even if the car was running at the time, rember they had just got in. I know the first thing I do when I get in a car is put my pistol in easy reach, then put my seat belt on, then check my mirrors, THEN turn the key and start the car...

3.) I'm not about to turn my back on an armed assailant to try and drive away. That is a perfect way to get yourself shot in the back. Once guns are drawn, me and hommie the gang banger are in it untill one of us is no longer moving.

You clowns need to cut this guy some slack. He did the best he could given the circumstances... he lived.
Will
 
SCKimberFan

I am basing my presumtions on the story as presented, not the police report because, well, we aren't discussing the police report.

According to the story the shooter didn't see a weapon in the hand of the suspected robber until after he emerged from his vehicle to press the attack whereupon it is possible that the suspected robber drew his weapon after seeing the shooter coming after him with a gun. The suspected robber could have drawn his weapon in self defense.

The reporter and the police are going on the story of the shooter at this point in time. We don't know if the suspected robber was originally reaching for a gun or a pack of cigarettes before asking the guy for a light.

Not that it matters but my non-exhaustive search of public records Jamarcus Usher does not have a record in the U.S.

According to the story presented above, the shooter was basing his actions on nothing more than his imagination and that is not a good enough reason to attack someone, continue the attack and pull a gun.

rklessdriver

Unless you are a psychic you definitely don't know what really went on. We are discussing the story as presented.
 
Okay wanted to clear up a couple of things-Georgia is a castle doctrine state. If you shoot someone in self defense you cannot be sued. At least that is my understanding from the reading I have done on the matter. Next the John Henderson that was mentioned at the beginning of the story was a Grant Park (another neighborhood close to where this happened) bartender that when he was robbed complied with the robbers demands only to be shot in the head & killed. Didn't see this on the news but heard about it at work from one of the General Contractors employees that was a friend of his.
Also when reading the thread at GaPacking.Org on this story there was a post by a member there along the lines of 12 burglaries within a one mile radius of this location within the last week and an old lady robbed there that day. I would say this was most likely a good shoot. The Atlanta Journal Constitution is pretty consistently anti gun. I have lived in the Metro Atlanta area my whole life & couldn't really care less about spending time inside the perimeter other than for work. If anyone approached me in an intown parking lot late at night I would definitely be on alert and ready to take action.
 
Rklessdriver makes a good point. I'm an in-town Atlanta resident - have been for a good long while. Our crime situation has really gotten out of hand, and it was never good in the first place. Violence like this happens all the time, especially in the "gentrifying" areas (where yuppie condos meet crack-addled neighborhoods). I never fathomed a pack of 20 bums would literally "bum rush" someone in broad daylight, running full speed across a parking lot to intercept, until I moved to this city. In short, our self-defense theory is more or less continually in practice 'round these parts.
 
SCKimberFan said:
He was NOT unarmed, he was still armed with a weapon, as the story relates, even if he didn't present it.

You are armed when your gun is in your holster aren't you?
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OK... so let's say on one particular day, my truck refuses to start in a parking lot. I'm carrying, just like I do every time I leave the house. I see some friendly-looking folks walking to their truck and decide to go ask for a jump. For reasons unbeknownst to me, when I get to these folks' truck and approach the window, the passenger suddenly throws the door open and exits the vehicle, gun in hand.

Would it not be unsurprising for me to feel compelled to defend myself?

I am not saying that that's what I think happened here. Most notably, my theoretical scenario doesn't have me reaching into my pocket as I approach the truck, which (assuming it's true) is, to my mind, a reason to go to red immediately.

But I think this is the kind of scenario that was being driven at earlier. Based on the story, the shooter was the first person to present a weapon in this scenario. Did he have good reason to? I don't know, I wasn't there. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Unless you live in or near Altanta you don't know whats its like there.

My family lives near there and I grew up there until I went in the Marine Corps in 1994.

In the past 10yrs or so, pan handlers have become a scorge on the city. They are as common as leaves on a tree there and as aggressive as rabid pole cat. The guy probally thought the would be robber was a pan handler, hence why he rolled the window down.

Something else... Not a good shoot?? All you fricken keyboard commandos out there better get your heads out of your asses. Imagine a guy walks up to you, then reaches in his waistband and draws a pistol. Takes what all of .5 a second??

I know all you Mall Ninjas out there practice the mexican with your Glock 17 (just in case), so you've got it down to a science. I'm sure Hommie the gang banger practices just like you do, so just assume he's as good as you are at presenting a weapon... Most folks can't even make a choice about weather to swerve to avoid a tree rat in the road, let alone make a good descision about life and death fight or flight in that amount of time.

1.) This guy is DAMN LUCKY he was able to reconize the gun threat, then throw his attacker off balance with the door and shoot him with his pistol.

2.) That woman driving the car probally freaked out and froze up. They more than likely wern't going anywhere, even if the car was running at the time, rember they had just got in. I know the first thing I do when I get in a car is put my pistol in easy reach, then put my seat belt on, then check my mirrors, THEN turn the key and start the car...

3.) I'm not about to turn my back on an armed assailant to try and drive away. That is a perfect way to get yourself shot in the back. Once guns are drawn, me and hommie the gang banger are in it untill one of us is no longer moving.

You clowns need to cut this guy some slack. He did the best he could given the circumstances... he lived.
Will
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+1

atlanta is baaaaad news. i was just down there visiting friends in the little 5 points, and you go 15 yards in the wrong direction and you've got problems. my yuppie friends love it there because "it is so organic and real". i just roll my eyes and tell them to get a dog since she thinks only police should have guns.

it goes w/o saying that she is an "artist" (graphic designer).
 
Ladies and Gentlemen,

A personal story, going back to the period 1960 to 1964.

Whilst working on the door of a Club, I was confronted by two young men, quite well dressed, they wanted in, NO said I, why said the closest... "This is not a discussion" said I.

He pulled his hand quickly from his pocket, I broke his nose, and side kicked him in the shin bone. He went down in to the street, his friend said he was just getting his handkerchief!

I could care less! You can not wait, you must react to how it looks, any situation, any!

Hitting some one standing near your truck door, with that door, is perfect, closing the distance, perfect, shooting him full of holes,1, or crushing his larynx with a flat fist strike 2, the same probable result. One you had a gun, two you did not.

My advice to the shooter, before he became the shooter, "KEEP OUT OF BARS" If I met him now, "you did good"
 
At first I thought the shooter/victim had been carrying in the bar but I guess he got the gun from the car.
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I believe the law was recently changed in Georgia, thanks to our great governor, Sonny Perdue. You may now carry in restaurant/bars as long as you are not drinking. You may also carry on the public transit buses and trains. The new law was a big package that cleaned up a lot of un-clear areas the 20yo law left open for interpretation.

Oh, the local paper and news were screaming when the proposal came up for a vote, but it passed by a very wide margin. And of course, there hasn't been a wild shootout every day as the press had predicted!

I've lived in Atlanta for 58 years. Going downtown is why I got my carry permit to begin with. The HERO in the story did a great job... and saved the bankrupt city a lot of money.
 
Sounds like a legitimate shoot to me.

Let's say you're a panhandler, and you come up to a vehicle to try and bum some spare change, and the guy inside flips the door open and knocks you down. Seems to me that your most likely reaction would be, "Ow! What'd you do that for? I was just going to ask if you could spare some change!" Your attitude approaching would not be aggressive.

This guy (the dead one) immediately went for a weapon, which tells me that he had aggressive intent before approaching the truck.
 
THis country gives more rights and support to criminals and les s to law abiding citizens. That is why criminals have free reign and we have one of the highest crime rates in the world. It isn't because we have legal guns. Its because only criminals have the full legal right to use them, since they don't get caught most of the time, but law abiding citizens always get caught.
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This is some interesting "Logic". The family of a criminal may be able to sue after they are shot dead, but so can the family of a law abiding citizen, if that law abiding citizen is shot dead. The family of the law abiding citizen is more likely to win, so how does this country give more rights to criminals again?

Criminals have the full legal right to use weapons because they don't get caught? I don't even know where to begin with that one.

The following statement is the one thing that bugs me about the writer and the article. It was not a KILLING it was self defense.
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The guy was killed. It was self defense, but it was still a killing. It was not murder however.

CNN is running this video about the incident on their website. It doesn't contain any fluff about "high capacity clips" or "assault weapon". It's worth a watch just to say you watched a news story about guns that didn't contain either of those terms.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/01/16/schramm.victim.kills.robber.wgcl
 
Well, in the same neighborhood just one week earlier a very nice bartender was killed in a holdup/ robbery. He had already handed over the money and the thieves shot him in the chest point blank for no understandable reason. That needless killing got big coverage.

Out of that came a huge neighborhood protest rally that also got bigtime news coverage.

So they can't very well report with teary eyes the first 2 events, then go back and say the citizen in the third event was in the wrong, can they??
 
i said it before....atlanta is really bad news (certain places)

one of the biggest problems is that the rough areas are unfortunately the same areas that so many affluent yuppies are moving. It is like keeping clown fish and piranhas in the same tank. At least in places like Detroit, people know to avoid certain areas...Atlanta is weirdly different. People are almost attracted to the area like they are trying to create some Southern Soho...won't work though.

i have some friends down there that live in gentrified areas...and they are literally fortress styled condos and apartments. Gated, fenced, guarded, cameras, motion sensors. It is funny because living in these areas is considered almost a badge of honor.

Living inside the perimeter (ITP) can be a very very bad idea.
 
At least in places like Detroit, people know to avoid certain areas...Atlanta is weirdly different.
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Yikes I can definitely see how that causes trouble. In Detroit there are huge swaths where it literally looks like a city that people abandoned many years ago.



Also .40 caliber Colt? What all models did they make in .40 again? Wasn't the Defender one?
 
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