Virginia: "House panel OKs easing gun ban"

[cuchulainn]

http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story143797.html

from the Roanoke Times

Saturday, February 01, 2003
House panel OKs easing gun ban
Bill would allow concealed weapons in some restaurants that serve alcohol

By MICHAEL SLUSS
THE ROANOKE TIMES

RICHMOND - Neither restaurant owners nor gun owners cheered Friday when a House of Delegates committee endorsed legislation that would allow customers to carry concealed firearms into some establishments that serve alcohol.

The House Militia, Police and Public Safety Committee recommended approval for a controversial measure (HB 1977) that would partly lift the ban on concealed handguns in restaurants that serve beer, wine and liquor. If passed by the General Assembly, the legislation would allow customers with proper permits to carry concealed handguns into restaurants that rely on alcohol sales for no more than 30 percent of their food and beverage business.

The bill's sponsor said the measure will keep handguns out of "entertainment establishments" that rely heavily on alcohol sales, but allow permitted gun owners to carry concealed firearms into family restaurants.

"These are folks who are law-abiding citizens," said Del. Lee Ware, R-Powhatan County.

The committee approved the bill by a vote of 15-7. The measure now moves to the House floor, marking the first time lawmakers will have a chance to vote on easing the gun ban since Republicans expanded their majority to 64 seats in the 2001 elections. Democratic Gov. Mark Warner opposes a complete repeal of the concealed weapons ban, but an administration spokeswoman said the governor will review Ware's bill before taking a position on it.

Ware has tried unsuccessfully in previous years to lift the ban in all establishments that serve alcohol. In crafting this year's bill, Ware tried to address concerns raised by restaurant owners and gun control groups who complained that mayhem would ensue in restaurants and bars if gun-toting patrons had too much to drink.

But Ware's compromise measure encountered strong opposition Friday from people on both sides of the issue. A restaurant industry lobbyist criticized it for being too permissive, and gun owners complained that it is too restrictive.

"We don't need people who get agitated, upset and happen to have a weapon handy in restaurants, and that issue is further compounded when they're consuming alcohol," said Tom Lisk, a restaurant industry lobbyist.

Lisk, a Roanoke native, placed a liter bottle of whiskey and a gun on the lectern as he spoke to the committee, saying, "This is what this issue is about. It's about guns in restaurants that serve alcohol, guns in bars."

Some audience members at Friday's committee meeting donned buttons reading "I Just Lost My Appetite" and "Even Miss Kitty Made You Check Your Gun at the Door."

Advocates for banning guns in bars often point to a 1997 incident in Blacksburg, where identical twins Kerry and Terry Scales fired guns during a dance-floor brawl at a bar called Arnold's, leaving one man dead and another wounded. Two days before the incident, the Henry County Circuit Court had approved the twins' applications for concealed weapons permits.

Del. Jim Shuler, D-Blacksburg, has opposed legislation to completely lift the ban on guns in bars. But he voted for Ware's bill Friday, saying the measure was strong enough to keep handguns out of popular Blacksburg nightspots.

"They're trying to make some accommodation to all the various parties involved in this," Shuler said. "They've worked all summer to come up with a compromise."

The bill's other supporters included Republicans Morgan Griffith of Salem, Dave Nutter of Christiansburg, Robert Hurt of Chatham and Ben Cline of Rockbridge County.

Guns-rights advocates called for an outright repeal of the concealed weapons ban and accused committee members of sacrificing principle for political expediency.

Ware's bill has the support of the influential National Rifle Association, but some Virginia gun-rights advocates wonder whether NRA officials carefully scrutinized the legislation.

"I'm convinced that when gun owners find out what this bill really does, they'll be angry," said Mike McHugh, president of the Front Royal-based Virginia Gun Owners Association. "I certainly don't want to be the one trying to explain to them that we passed this bill for political reasons."

Griffith, an ardent supporter of gun rights, conceded that Ware's bill "is a compromise that leaves much to be desired."

But, he added, "Let's try it this way for a few years and see if there's any truth to what the critics are saying."

 

[El Tejon]

51% 30% blah, blah, blah.

What exactly is the big deal with carrying pistols into taverns? Why are they only concerned about "concealed" pistols? So if you open carry into a tavern, there's no conern, but if you put on a jacket, you're a killer in waiting?

Some holdover from Carrie Nation? Have these morons in the state assemblies down there been watching too many Westerns on the tee vee? Miss Kitty, indeed.

Why don't they look to the less restrictive states and see if there is a problem? We have no statute and no problem with shootouts over a chicken salad, 8 ball or on the dance floors. What would cause Ol' Virginny to be any different than us here in YankeeLand?

 

[The Reaper]

Ok here are the issues and background on this.

A former NRA lobbyist went to work for the Restaurant Association. They have worked with Lee Ware to craft this bill. The 30% limit will cover most restaurants in VA (Outback etc) so it does little to repeal the "Restaurant Ban". Also any restaurant may voluntarily opt in to be covered as an "Entertainment Establishment" thereby banning concealed guns.

So basically the restaurant association is afraid that without the protection of a blanket statute the anti-gun places will have to post per the law. If they post they are afraid of the backlash from gun owners not patronizing their establishments.

The fact that the NRA has endorsed this garbage legislation tells me they got a call from their former buddy and lobbyist and didn't actually read or chaeck up on what the bill really does. In the end it does little or nothing for lawful gun owners and protects the restaurants who are anti-citizen from being exposed. I solved the problem for them, I don't eat at any restaurant that serves alcohol on the premisis.

So you see it has little to do with facts or statistics, it's about an anti-rights lobby that is more powerful than the NRA and a lobby that duped the NRA. It's going to be an uphill battle to kill or fix this bad proposal.

Go here to see how the fight is going. VA has a short legislative session so they work seven days a week during the session.
http://www.vcdl.org

 

[The Rock]

Being a resident of the Old Dominion, I couldn't care less what those bliss-ninnys in Richmond think.

I carry anyway.

Let us face facts here folks: This is my life (and ergo, my butt!) and I have grown awfully attached to it! My concern is me and mine.

If somebody walks in and make the place 'The Kalashnikov Cafe' then it will become obvious I was carrying my PDW. If not, nobody knows.

Concealed is concealed! How are they going to know? How many CHP holders go to a bar while carrying for the express purpose of drinking?

If you think you are gonna get made and into some trouble with those folks who carry the stainless bracelets, unconceal and BAM! you are 100% legal.

What a bunch of maroons.

TR

 

[The Reaper]

The Rock,

Is there anywhere in Virginia where your strategy of uncovering and using "open carry" wouldn't work?

What are the penalties for illegal concealed carry and how do they affect your ability to get a CHP in VA and firearms ownership?

The restaurant ban really isn't about bars at all. Restaurants like Outback Steak House et al would still ban concealed carry under HB1997. There are people in this world who don't knowingly violate the law for numerous reasons. If you are in a position to do so, more power to you. I'd like to see the law changed. There is no reason to have a restaurant ban on carrying concealed.

 

[The Reaper]

Updated: HB1997 has exited the house and is in the senate. It is not fixed and still should be dropped or fixed.

I finally researched the questions I posed to The Rock.

Falls Church has a grandfathered law prohibiting "open carry". Also any city with a population over 160,000. There is more here. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

So carrying concealed and then uncovering may be ok in most areas of Virginia, but you had better be sure before you use this strategy.

To answer the second question. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to illegally carry a firearm. The penalties vary widely, however your firearm will be forfeit to the state. Also a Class 1 and any other non-moving violation misdemeanor charge within 12 months will revoke your CHP, and leave you ineligible to apply for five years. Two gun violations (i.e. get caught twice carrying illegally) gets you upgraded to a Class 5 Felony, goodbye to all gun ownership.

I wonder how a Class 1 misdemeanor gun charge would look when applying for a government security clearance or to be bonded for trades work (electrician, plumber etc). I honestly don't know, but I'm not going to research it either. I'm tired of reading all the codes etc.