Strings
Member
NineseveN: so... are you sure about the doubt, or is there doubt involved in it? 
Virginia Man Shoots & Kills Intruding Pimp
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NineseveN
member
I only know that I know nothing. Loosely quoting Socrates for the win!
Strings
Member
Right up there with his famous quote of "I drank WHAT?!?!?"... 
NineseveN
member
Hehe.
silverlance
Member
hm
Imho the part about the gunnie saying "i regret having to take" is probably for the papers and potential lawyers. if i had to shoot a goblin busting through my windows I'd probably cry hysterically for hours afterwards in addition just to be sure i could claim "reasonable fear for life". or whatever the legal term for it is.
this girlfriend seems like a total moron though. my girl would retreat immediately into the bedroom so she can start loading the benelli. she wouldn't have done something stupid like say, "oh i'm sure it's nothing, lets go find out who this is!" i used to have a girlfriend who would dismiss my caution as gun-nut paranoia... i dumped her. my soviet-bloc trained current girlfriend thinks it's sweet when i holster up whent he security system goes off.
and as for the bg - it's too bad his life culminated in being shot at the foot of a flight of stairs, but anyone who persists in robbing a house despite locks and alarms is truly a dirtbag.
i'm grateful that i live in a house where i've been able to install a buffer zone (secured patio) so that i don't have to open doors vis a vis to find out if the guy who triggered my proximity alarm is fedex or some pimp who got out yesterday.
Imho the part about the gunnie saying "i regret having to take" is probably for the papers and potential lawyers. if i had to shoot a goblin busting through my windows I'd probably cry hysterically for hours afterwards in addition just to be sure i could claim "reasonable fear for life". or whatever the legal term for it is.
this girlfriend seems like a total moron though. my girl would retreat immediately into the bedroom so she can start loading the benelli. she wouldn't have done something stupid like say, "oh i'm sure it's nothing, lets go find out who this is!" i used to have a girlfriend who would dismiss my caution as gun-nut paranoia... i dumped her. my soviet-bloc trained current girlfriend thinks it's sweet when i holster up whent he security system goes off.
and as for the bg - it's too bad his life culminated in being shot at the foot of a flight of stairs, but anyone who persists in robbing a house despite locks and alarms is truly a dirtbag.
i'm grateful that i live in a house where i've been able to install a buffer zone (secured patio) so that i don't have to open doors vis a vis to find out if the guy who triggered my proximity alarm is fedex or some pimp who got out yesterday.
silverlance
Member
oh, and
Byron,
I agree with your comment about your idiots being in awe of my idiots. For those of you who have misgivings about the necessity of developing a warrior mentality regarding personal security, I can only direct you to the following website:
http://www.lapdonline.org/bldg_safer_comms/prevention_main.htm
be aware, however, that the "crime prevention tips" contained herein boil down to essentially living like a squirrel - and that the average wait time for LAPD's 911 dispatch to even answer your emergency distress call is about 10 minutes.
Oh, by the way - that's only if the line isn't busy.
Been there too many times; done that; will rely on self now.
Byron,
I agree with your comment about your idiots being in awe of my idiots. For those of you who have misgivings about the necessity of developing a warrior mentality regarding personal security, I can only direct you to the following website:
http://www.lapdonline.org/bldg_safer_comms/prevention_main.htm
be aware, however, that the "crime prevention tips" contained herein boil down to essentially living like a squirrel - and that the average wait time for LAPD's 911 dispatch to even answer your emergency distress call is about 10 minutes.
Oh, by the way - that's only if the line isn't busy.
Been there too many times; done that; will rely on self now.
Hardtarget
Member
Like I've said MANY times...just leave me alone and we'll get along fine. When my window or door is locked ...or even just closed...and an uninvited intruder steps in...all bets are off. Nice walks....no,RUNS...out. I will defend my family and home without hesitation and with no regrets. If there are half a dozen and I can pile 'em up in the door, well thats OK. If I survive thats OK too.Again, I'll like it just fine if the BG's just leave me alone. I'd rather shoot at targets at the range and develop friendships with fellow sportsmen. As for this young man...he was perfect. One shot...defense finished. Prefect!
Mark.
Mark.
thorn726
Member
Ah Ha!
ok this is totally wacked, i need to do some research.
the "duty to retreat" related threads are covering exactly what i meant to bring into play here
in MOST States,. i would have to agree, you appear to be correct here-
HOWever- now this is where i need to research- California law is unclear to me at this point.
in a few states, this would not follow the "duty to retreat" guidelines
questionable that such laws should ever be obeyed, but unfortunately this is the mindset i am coming from. seems like most Californians, myself included are under the false impression we have to do everything possible to avoid using deadly force, even at home.
in which case, even if it does only mean a few months in jail (which would bankrupt me anyway), sometimes means taking into consideration the avergage California speedfreak burglar already has felonies, and is therefore unarmed. most drug addicts sell their guns for drugs. drug DEalers and muggers have guns. (again, huge generalization that the law here perpetuates)
i KNOW its one big risk , and the more i listen to you guys the more i personally feel id take the 12 over the 6, os feel smug about that.
hey- i am not Thorn for nothing (although the 726 is totally arbitrary), but i aM more on your side than not, this prickle wants to be thoroughly convinced.
makes me laugh. SOME of y'all are for sure the type that would try and fight me in a bar but end up buying me a beer.
NOW- as far as the idiots aND their laws- you're missing the point.
the law , good. mass publicity cheering about it - bad.
why? well, sure as usual, it doesnt affect you doesnt matter right?
until some CA senator gets scared by y'all and writes a bill.
how much violence in other states is used as ammo by antis ?
think of the national press of the FL law.
as long as nothing goes wrong it's all good.
one bad shoot and whatever gun is used will be banned here.
not a great example but hopefully you get the drift now.....
ok this is totally wacked, i need to do some research.
the "duty to retreat" related threads are covering exactly what i meant to bring into play here
in MOST States,. i would have to agree, you appear to be correct here-
HOWever- now this is where i need to research- California law is unclear to me at this point.
in a few states, this would not follow the "duty to retreat" guidelines
questionable that such laws should ever be obeyed, but unfortunately this is the mindset i am coming from. seems like most Californians, myself included are under the false impression we have to do everything possible to avoid using deadly force, even at home.
in which case, even if it does only mean a few months in jail (which would bankrupt me anyway), sometimes means taking into consideration the avergage California speedfreak burglar already has felonies, and is therefore unarmed. most drug addicts sell their guns for drugs. drug DEalers and muggers have guns. (again, huge generalization that the law here perpetuates)
i KNOW its one big risk , and the more i listen to you guys the more i personally feel id take the 12 over the 6, os feel smug about that.
hey- i am not Thorn for nothing (although the 726 is totally arbitrary), but i aM more on your side than not, this prickle wants to be thoroughly convinced.
makes me laugh. SOME of y'all are for sure the type that would try and fight me in a bar but end up buying me a beer.
NOW- as far as the idiots aND their laws- you're missing the point.
the law , good. mass publicity cheering about it - bad.
why? well, sure as usual, it doesnt affect you doesnt matter right?
until some CA senator gets scared by y'all and writes a bill.
how much violence in other states is used as ammo by antis ?
think of the national press of the FL law.
as long as nothing goes wrong it's all good.
one bad shoot and whatever gun is used will be banned here.
not a great example but hopefully you get the drift now.....
gunsmith
member
afaik no retreat law in CA
When I lived in NYC I had a home invasion.
I cooperated and they stabbed me after they tied me up.
Shooting to wound doesn't work ...just recently a home invader died from a shot in the leg (AZ)
the femoral artery
as you can see is a main vein to the heart, leg wounds can often result in a quick death.
It, really , really , is thou shalt not murder, if you read that part of the Bible where Moses brings the ten commandments you will notice in a page or two he kills some infidels for blasphemy.
Good enough for Moses--good enough for me!
When I lived in NYC I had a home invasion.
I cooperated and they stabbed me after they tied me up.
Shooting to wound doesn't work ...just recently a home invader died from a shot in the leg (AZ)
the femoral artery
as you can see is a main vein to the heart, leg wounds can often result in a quick death.
It, really , really , is thou shalt not murder, if you read that part of the Bible where Moses brings the ten commandments you will notice in a page or two he kills some infidels for blasphemy.
Good enough for Moses--good enough for me!
When I read statements like this, I generally interperate it to mean this:
"I regret that this situation ever occured."
i.e. He probably would rather have NOT had his house broken into, and never been put thru this experience.
As much as I am willing to kill an intruder, I would far rather never have to!
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I've been watching for this for about thirty years here in Georgia (wrongful death lawsuits after a justified shooting). I am not aware of any. Why? Georgia attorneys have this hangup...they like to be paid. It's very difficult to find a Georgia attorney to take a wrongful death lawsuit in a justifiable homicide on a contingency basis. The reason is simple. Georgia lawyers are familiar with Georgia juries. And have passed math class. What's 40% of zero?
Strings
Member
>What's 40% of zero?<
[JayneCobb voice]Well lemmie do the math... nuthin', plus nuthin', and carry the nuthin'[/JayneCobb voice]
[JayneCobb voice]Well lemmie do the math... nuthin', plus nuthin', and carry the nuthin'[/JayneCobb voice]
That's an important point that is rarely mentioned. It's NOT just a good carpet cleaning service, there are services that specialize in cleaning up blood, and it's worth using them since it's not just a simple rug shampooing.
Shooting to wound, that is intentionally shooting a person (anywhere, leg, hand, finger, toe) when you do not have legal justification to kill them is never legal. Shooting a person is deadly force, and it's called DEADLY for a good reason. If you don't have justification to aim center of mass and pull the trigger then you don't have justification to shoot at all--that probably includes warning shots as well.
It proves no such thing.
While it may very well be true that a .357 is more effective than a 9mm, this story has absolutely no bearing on that argument. Unless you can show how the outcome would have been different had the homeowner been armed with a 9mm.
The very idea that I would have to consider retreating after someone has broken into my locked house, setting off the alarm, with me in it boggles the mind. A homeowner should retreat to a postion of optimum safety when a violent person crosses the threshold. Not to provide the intruder the optimum safety.
The "homeowner" in this case retreated to the stairs and took up a blocking position on the stairs to protect the defensless girlfriend who was summoning the police.
This even seems consistent with those states where there is an obligation to retreat.
As to the law school student saying, "I regret having to take a human life", I consider it to be an honest response. If we don't value human life, even that of someone as far removed from ourselves as the POS pimp that seemed intent on violence towards the GF, then we're little better than the dead pimp. Turning people into "things" to be treated any way we want is the thinking that the criminals use and is a slippery slope for us normal folks.
The "homeowner" in this case retreated to the stairs and took up a blocking position on the stairs to protect the defensless girlfriend who was summoning the police.
This even seems consistent with those states where there is an obligation to retreat.
As to the law school student saying, "I regret having to take a human life", I consider it to be an honest response. If we don't value human life, even that of someone as far removed from ourselves as the POS pimp that seemed intent on violence towards the GF, then we're little better than the dead pimp. Turning people into "things" to be treated any way we want is the thinking that the criminals use and is a slippery slope for us normal folks.
What are we debating?
If somebody wants this to be neither a debate about the way the Bible would have us do it, nor one about the tactics used, somebody tell me what the subject IS.
I was in a similar situation once. In my case, the intruder was trying to unlock a gate to enter my fenced and enclosed patio at night in a tough neighborhood. I yelled, "Come through that gate and I shoot." He didn't and I didn't. And that's how I DIDN'T kill the cop who was chasing a robbery suspect and thought the suspect might have hidden on my premises. And that's how the other four or five cops right behind him didn't shoot me, and how I lived to be an old man who has more than once asked a question first, and never had to shoot later. I'm not going to judge that Virginia boy, that's between him and the Commonwealth and the almighty, but I don't think I would have done it and I would recommend nobody else do it either.
If somebody wants this to be neither a debate about the way the Bible would have us do it, nor one about the tactics used, somebody tell me what the subject IS.
I was in a similar situation once. In my case, the intruder was trying to unlock a gate to enter my fenced and enclosed patio at night in a tough neighborhood. I yelled, "Come through that gate and I shoot." He didn't and I didn't. And that's how I DIDN'T kill the cop who was chasing a robbery suspect and thought the suspect might have hidden on my premises. And that's how the other four or five cops right behind him didn't shoot me, and how I lived to be an old man who has more than once asked a question first, and never had to shoot later. I'm not going to judge that Virginia boy, that's between him and the Commonwealth and the almighty, but I don't think I would have done it and I would recommend nobody else do it either.
sturmruger
Member
I guess I don't get the part about the fans. I know after a fancy birthday dinner I am probably not going to sit around and watch TV.
This is one of the better pieces I have read about a home defense situation. The guy had it coming for sure.
This is one of the better pieces I have read about a home defense situation. The guy had it coming for sure.
The_Antibubba
Member
"I regret having to take a human life"
On a legal level, it reinforces the "Having to" part.
And the taking of life unintentionally can be hard on all of us. Heck, I'm distraught when I'm driving and I run over a squirrel. We can call this "pimp" whatever we like, but at some point, he was as much a human being as anyone here, and all of us have the opportunity to change ourselves, even when we are at our very worst. That the pimp didn't turn himself around is a waste. That he wasn't killed by a fellow lowlife, but instead by a prepared citizen protecting his house and loved ones, is also regrettable.
And I truly hope the girlfriend has had her eyes opened, and that she decides to keep them open.
On a legal level, it reinforces the "Having to" part.
And the taking of life unintentionally can be hard on all of us. Heck, I'm distraught when I'm driving and I run over a squirrel.
We can call this "pimp" whatever we like, but at some point, he was as much a human being as anyone here, and all of us have the opportunity to change ourselves, even when we are at our very worst. That the pimp didn't turn himself around is a waste. That he wasn't killed by a fellow lowlife, but instead by a prepared citizen protecting his house and loved ones, is also regrettable.And I truly hope the girlfriend has had her eyes opened, and that she decides to keep them open.
dasmi
Member
+1
I am torn between being glad this scum won't cause pain to anyone else, and the needless loss of human life. And for the record, I don't believe his life was taken by the homeowner. When this man chose to break into someone else's home, and cause them harm, when he made that choice, his life was forfeit, it was only a matter of time.
I am torn between being glad this scum won't cause pain to anyone else, and the needless loss of human life. And for the record, I don't believe his life was taken by the homeowner. When this man chose to break into someone else's home, and cause them harm, when he made that choice, his life was forfeit, it was only a matter of time.
NineseveN
member
I would say that this "pimp" committed suicide through apathy. His blatant disregard for the sanctity of someone else's home and the ramifications of his unwelcome intrusion upon such is what brought about his death. He killed himself the minute he decided to commit the act. True, most criminals never die from breaking and entering, but then again, the majority of suicides via more conventional means aren't all that prone to a high rate of success either.
I think the ceiling fan switches are normally right next to the light switch, or the lights are mounted on the fan and one switch hits them both.
I think I would probably regret having to shoot someone, but that wouldn't stop me from doing it if I had to. Emotions should influence, not rule.
Other than that, I don't care what other people in other states will think of me, I'll just try to make the right decisions and help make sure Texas has the best laws possible. I might change my message to suit others, but I don't think I'll change my prinicples for a reason like that.
I think I would probably regret having to shoot someone, but that wouldn't stop me from doing it if I had to. Emotions should influence, not rule.
Other than that, I don't care what other people in other states will think of me, I'll just try to make the right decisions and help make sure Texas has the best laws possible. I might change my message to suit others, but I don't think I'll change my prinicples for a reason like that.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
44Special,
Couple of problems with the above quote. The first is the the Virginia boy shot the intruder in Macon, Georgia Therefore, the Commonwealth has absolutely nothing to say about the matter.
The second problem is that the Virginia boy exactly followed the Georgia statute on forced entry into a person's home. Do you really want to be in the position of recommending that people not follow the law?
And with your example, look up the Georgia law. There is no exemption in the law that allows law enforcement officers who do not have a warrant to break into a home. If a cop forcibly enters a dwelling in Georgia, without a warrant, and gets shot by the resident...the law is on the side of the resident. So the smart cop in Georgia rings your doorbell and says,"Sir, we think a miscreant is hiding in your humble abode. Do we have your permission to search for him?"
As for the Almighty...if a person enters my home here in Georgia and I obtain a sight picture then the intruder will be able to ask the Lord immediately for His opinion of my actions. There will be no questions. I've got the answers to the only questions required by the statute: forcible entry? Check. Not a resident of this house? Check. Engage.
not being murder
Any killing I ever am forced to expedite will not be for entertainment value. The possibility of such an action is revolting. I to would be found emotionaly traumatized and requiring medical attention.
Given the circumstance as I have read I would dispatch the requested correction at the earliest possible moment.
Beyond the grief and sarrow at or about the situation I would have to end the relationship as one detrimental to anyones well being. Some fememinism and stuborn attitude just doesn't mix every time with every situation.
Any killing I ever am forced to expedite will not be for entertainment value. The possibility of such an action is revolting. I to would be found emotionaly traumatized and requiring medical attention.
Given the circumstance as I have read I would dispatch the requested correction at the earliest possible moment.
Beyond the grief and sarrow at or about the situation I would have to end the relationship as one detrimental to anyones well being. Some fememinism and stuborn attitude just doesn't mix every time with every situation.
All he was trying to do was rustle up some ho's and this so-called boyfriend has to come along and turn it into a violent confrontation. What he should have done is just given the pimp what he wanted, then paid the pimp every week or so so he could see his girlfriend. There would have been no violence, and everyone would have walked away happy. Other than the girlfriend that is. Pimpin' ain't easy I guess.
1911_sfca
Member
Thorn's comments
With all due respect, please do a whole lot more reading (here and elsewhere) and a lot less posting. Your try at intellectual deconstruction of the situation seems to have confused yourself and annoyed everyone else.
As for California law, there is no duty to retreat. If you have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury, you are justified to defend yourself (note: bare fear is insufficient).
When an intruder forcibly enters your residence, there is a (rebuttable) presumption that they intend to do you serious bodily harm. In the case shown here, it would be a justified homicide under California law as well, with no duty to verbally warn the intruder before firing on him.
I hope that if someone cuts through your screen door, breaks your window, opens it up with a rag-covered hand, and while the alarm is going off, climbs through the window and advances on you, you won't be paralyzed in a mental exercise of figuring out what his intentions are and what the appropriate laws are.
With all due respect, please do a whole lot more reading (here and elsewhere) and a lot less posting. Your try at intellectual deconstruction of the situation seems to have confused yourself and annoyed everyone else.
As for California law, there is no duty to retreat. If you have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury, you are justified to defend yourself (note: bare fear is insufficient).
When an intruder forcibly enters your residence, there is a (rebuttable) presumption that they intend to do you serious bodily harm. In the case shown here, it would be a justified homicide under California law as well, with no duty to verbally warn the intruder before firing on him.
I hope that if someone cuts through your screen door, breaks your window, opens it up with a rag-covered hand, and while the alarm is going off, climbs through the window and advances on you, you won't be paralyzed in a mental exercise of figuring out what his intentions are and what the appropriate laws are.
1911_sfca
Member
To wit,
Please read this document,
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf
focusing on "Protecting One's Home," starting on page 30.
Please read this document,
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf
focusing on "Protecting One's Home," starting on page 30.
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