Wal-Mart CCW Posting in Illinois
- Thread starter Trent
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beatledog7
Member
The sign essentially says, "If you're here to spend money, your gun is welcome."
Trent:
Buckeye state firearms also has a card that might have appropriate wording for you:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/publicfiles/pdf/NGNM-card.pdf
Don't know if it's copyrighted or not.
I agree with the poster who said the Wal-Mart sign was a deliberate subterfuge to pacify nervous nellies without actually prohibiting otherwise lawfully carried guns in their stores. But what do I know?
Had the same problem when Coloroado went shall issue and found a sign in the front door saying all guns must be checked in, in a national sporting goods store hereabouts. Talked with the manager, who was not aware of the new laws. Problem solved. The next week, the sign had an exception for legal concealed carry added on the bottom. Originally, it was only meant for people bringing in guns for repair or trade-ins.
Personally, I wouldn't raise much of a fuss about it with Wal-Mart officials. I guess sooner or later the word will get around to knowledgeable carriers through training classes, etc., that it doesn't apply to them in its present form.
We all know, however, that their sign with the no-guns logo will absolutely keep out criminals with illegally-carried guns intent on doing evil.
Right?
Riiiight.
Terry, 230RN
Buckeye state firearms also has a card that might have appropriate wording for you:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/publicfiles/pdf/NGNM-card.pdf
Don't know if it's copyrighted or not.
I agree with the poster who said the Wal-Mart sign was a deliberate subterfuge to pacify nervous nellies without actually prohibiting otherwise lawfully carried guns in their stores. But what do I know?
Had the same problem when Coloroado went shall issue and found a sign in the front door saying all guns must be checked in, in a national sporting goods store hereabouts. Talked with the manager, who was not aware of the new laws. Problem solved. The next week, the sign had an exception for legal concealed carry added on the bottom. Originally, it was only meant for people bringing in guns for repair or trade-ins.
Personally, I wouldn't raise much of a fuss about it with Wal-Mart officials. I guess sooner or later the word will get around to knowledgeable carriers through training classes, etc., that it doesn't apply to them in its present form.
We all know, however, that their sign with the no-guns logo will absolutely keep out criminals with illegally-carried guns intent on doing evil.
Right?
Riiiight.
Terry, 230RN
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22-rimfire
Member
Very creative of Walmart. Give that regional manager a raise.
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Guys, in present form the sign makes me nervous.
What if, in a week, they re-print and put up a new copy without the additional language?
Will anyone notice or will gun owners just blow past the sign and risk a misdemeanor (or even felony) charge?
I'm uncomfortable with telling my students "you can't carry in to a business, where it's posted, except for Wal-Mart."
I remember listening to the legislative hearings while this was being enacted, and the legislative intent was that if a sign was posted, it was DONE. No-one could concealed carry in that building. Period.
There's too much gray area here, and all it takes is a prosecutor saying "wal-mart doesn't have the authority to make that sign specific to certain TYPES of people; a posting is a posting, and that logo is 4x6", so it's a posted building."
Just not comfortable at all with this. It's confusing, and I think it could (potentially) lead to someone having a bad day.
What if, in a week, they re-print and put up a new copy without the additional language?
Will anyone notice or will gun owners just blow past the sign and risk a misdemeanor (or even felony) charge?
I'm uncomfortable with telling my students "you can't carry in to a business, where it's posted, except for Wal-Mart."
I remember listening to the legislative hearings while this was being enacted, and the legislative intent was that if a sign was posted, it was DONE. No-one could concealed carry in that building. Period.
There's too much gray area here, and all it takes is a prosecutor saying "wal-mart doesn't have the authority to make that sign specific to certain TYPES of people; a posting is a posting, and that logo is 4x6", so it's a posted building."
Just not comfortable at all with this. It's confusing, and I think it could (potentially) lead to someone having a bad day.
Here is one a LGS owner in my area had made up, front and back:
Attachments
![IMG_3859[1].jpg](/data/attachments/140/140483-ccec93ed87e053c8b9a80fdf8143df99.jpg)
![IMG_3860[1].jpg](/data/attachments/140/140484-609a69ff1cf2e61343fe435190891fc4.jpg)
MachIVshooter
Member
This. A privately held business can enact/enforce any policy they wish affecting employees, so long as it doesn't violate discrimination laws or safety regulations. Regardless of the constitution, they can tell you that you're not allowed to talk to customers, that you will be searched prior to clocking out each day, or that you cannot exercise your 2nd amendment rights. You sign the employment contract, you are agreeing to these terms.
If the sign doesn't carry weight of law, though, that policy is between Walmart and the vendor. If the vendor doesn't wish to honor the policy, all WM can do is terminate the contract.
If I were a private contractor working in a place that posted such a sign, I would either
A) tell them to find a new contractor or
B) if the contract was lucrative enough, adopt a don't ask-don't tell policy.
I will respect the wishes of a private property owner who decrees no firearms on the property, but I have no reservations about ignoring that mandate with public-private property or buildings. When you open your property up to the public, you concede certain privileges, among them the right to discriminate for any or no reason. A private home can have a "no blacks" or "no gays" policy, and no one can do a thing about it. Try that with a business, though, and see what happens.
plodder
Member
From Trent:
Attached is what I use (came from a link on THR). I carry a few in my wallet and usually ask to see the manager as I am leaving such an establishment and hand it to them personally. Thankfully, there are not many posted businesses in my part of the world.
Attached is what I use (came from a link on THR). I carry a few in my wallet and usually ask to see the manager as I am leaving such an establishment and hand it to them personally. Thankfully, there are not many posted businesses in my part of the world.
Attachments
Deep Fried
Member
I used to work at Walmart. Long story short, that sign only applies to employees and vendors, but it looks like clever anti-gun management. It will probably be taken down next time a big wig comes in.
TyGuy
Member
My take, as an instructor with knowledge of the FCCA law and JCAR rules governing it, is that is a legal sign, thus Walmart is a prohibitted location.
That is not their intent, but that is the result.
That is not their intent, but that is the result.
Couple replies from WM
The first says we did it because we're required to , the second is after I pointed out the ISP FAQ stating employers should NOT do this.
I think the time is right for folks to put on more pressure - even if only through the web site
The first says we did it because we're required to , the second is after I pointed out the ISP FAQ stating employers should NOT do this.
I think the time is right for folks to put on more pressure - even if only through the web site
To point out that this is pretty much standard corporate policy, retail or not. Check YOUR employee handbook.
This constitutes the biggest infringement of our rights on a daily basis, and it's essentially a conflict between the worker's constitutional rights and the property owner's.
Dr. Sandman
Member
I'm with the sly nod to CC folks.
It's a liability issue. Employees should not be allowed to carry. Unfortunately if you allow 1 to carry, then they all can, and knowing how easily something could escalate in Wal-Mart, I can understand why they did it. As an employer I wouldn't want people who worked for me carrying guns, unless I chose which ones could and which could not. It comes down to the bosses ass if something goes wrong, nothing to do with pro or anti gun, just peoples tempers.
NavyLCDR
member
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