Walther Creed

[TarDevil]

What is this thing, why is it so cheap and what is a "Pre-cocked double-action" trigger?
http://www.waltherarms.com/handguns/creed/

 

[Winkman822]

It looks to be the successor to the PPX, i.e. a hammer fired, DAO that is more along the lines of an HK LEM. As for what a "pre-cocked double action" trigger is, it's the same trigger system that we've seen for years and years and years in one way or another. Para called it the LDA, HK calls it the LEM and Sig calls it the DAK. When you rack the slide to chamber a round, the hammer is partially cocked and pulling the trigger cocks it the rest of the way before it breaks and fires the gun. On the price point, it tracks with where the PPX was priced. I'd say it's definitely a gun that could be worth a good hard look.

 

[TarDevil]

Yeah, the LEM came to mind but just wanted some input from the higher knowledge base! Thanks.

 

[gc70]

The new gun's slide looks like a simplified version of the PPX; reduced machining translates to cost reduction.

 

[Darkstar888]

It's basically a PPX M2 with a dumb name. All the PPX owners on the Walther forums rave about the ergonomics and trigger. This is essentially the same gun with a more sleek appearance. It is made in the Ulm plant in Germany so is not one of the Umarex wannabe guns. It's a value priced entry level gun with great ergonomics and a good trigger. It will accept PPX mags.

 

[Dain Bramage]

GunsAmerica reviews describes it as an intermediate model, with the pre-cocked hammer fired action of the PPX, and the more pleasing, better machined slide style of the PPQ. They imply it will be nestled between the PPX and PPQ in the model line.

However, that would leave Walther with three similar sized polymer service pistols in 9mm. GA also says the MSRP for Creed and PPX are identical at $399. Some people are reporting that the Creed uses PPX magazines. That would imply, in my mind, that Creed is a replacement for the PPX. It would give Walther a more unified looking line, and maintain customer choice for the cheaper pre-cocked hammer version that some people prefer, or the more expensive striker fired PPQ.

Interesting twist with the name going away from the near universal Germanic penchant for alpha-numeric titles for firearms and cars. I like it.

 

[Darkstar888]

It is the replacement for the PPX. The PPX was discontinued earlier this year. And yes it is supposed to accept PPX mags. It's really just a PPX M2 with a wired name.

 

[wally]

Sounds like a real improvement, especially in taking the original PPX mags. I always thought the PPX looked like the evil spawn of Glock and HiPoint

 

[herrwalther]

I like the improved looks of the Creed. Always thought the PPX was ugly as sin. For the price it might be worth overlooking the poor name choice for one. The question was asked on Facebook if the Creed takes PPX magazines. And from the horse's mouth Walther answered yes.

 

[ProPhetiQ]

Herr Walther,
Dom you know if this was fully made in the Ulm plant or was just some final assem b ly happen there so they could stamp the Ulm name on it like the CCP?

 

[Pilot]

Another Hi Point re-brand?

 

[railroader]

I see a lot of PPX hate on gun forums and I agree they are odd looking. I just wonder how many posters have actually owned or shot one. I have one with dawson competition sights. It is a reliable tack driver with a really good trigger. Now the Creed addresses the ugly factor with the slide and frame redesign to make it look more like the PPQ. With an online price that should be around $350 what other similar quality gun is there available. If marketing is done right this version could be a winner. Here's a pic of the PPQ and a pic of the creed.

 

[zaitcev]

The question was asked on Facebook if the Creed takes PPX magazines. And from the horse's mouth Walther answered yes.

This is much better than PPS M2, then.

 

[Darkstar888]

Oh come on now. The PPS M2 was a major improvement. The only reason mags weren't compatible was because of the button mag release and redesigned grip texture which extends to the base plates. Compatibility wasn't possible even if they wanted to. It's not like they did to screw people over.

 

[herrwalther]

Herr Walther,
Dom you know if this was fully made in the Ulm plant or was just some final assem b ly happen there so they could stamp the Ulm name on it like the CCP?

Not sure. I haven't seen much press about the Creed yet outside Walther banging their chest about it. They don't like to advertise which firearms are true Ulm Walthers and which are Umarex junk.

Oh come on now. The PPS M2 was a major improvement. The only reason mags weren't compatible was because of the button mag release and redesigned grip texture which extends to the base plates. Compatibility wasn't possible even if they wanted to. It's not like they did to screw people over.

The PPS M2 being an improvement is up to personal taste. The M2 doesn't fit my hand well, so I have zero interest in them. Regardless when the PPQ M2 was introduced, some users were able to add a notch to PPQ M1 magazines so they would catch on the button magazine lock. Something similar might be possible between PPS M1 and M2 magazines.

 

[Darkstar888]

Afraid the notch thing won't work on the PPS mags because the base plates are an extension of the grip design/texture. Unless you swap out the base plates and add the notch.

As for the Creed it just made an appearance on tonight's episode of Guns and Ammo Tv. Looked pretty seeet suprizingly. Those rounded off slides made all the difference. Makes it appear much more compact than the PPX.

 

[MAKster]

One reason why the PPX was inexpensive was because they used a 3-piece barrel. There were lots of complaints on the Walther forum about the feed ramp coming loose. Hopefully that issue was fixed.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

What is this thing, why is it so cheap and what is a "Pre-cocked double-action" trigger?

I wonder if this system isn't what some call a "modified DA" -- which is the term used to describe Glock and many other striker-fired guns, and the Third Gen S&W hammer-fired guns. No second strike capability, because the slide must move slightly to partially charge the striker (on in the case of the S&W 3rd Gen guns, hammer) spring.

 

[Capybara]

I've been reading up on this one, looks like a winner to me. If I lived in a free state, I would easily take the $350.00 gamble that this is a decent little pistol but it's not on the roster here so we cannot buy one. I've shot the PPQ and loved it but used ones are stupid prices in California.

 

[Darkstar888]

I wonder if this system isn't what some call a "modified DA" -- which is the term used to describe Glock and many other striker-fired guns, and the Third Gen S&W hammer-fired guns. No second strike capability, because the slide must move slightly to partially charge the striker (on in the case of the S&W 3rd Gen guns, hammer) spring.

Pretty sure you are correct on that except of course this also is a hammer fired gun. Nk striker involved.

 

[railroader]

I wonder if this system isn't what some call a "modified DA" -- which is the term used to describe Glock and many other striker-fired guns, and the Third Gen S&W hammer-fired guns. No second strike capability, because the slide must move slightly to partially charge the striker (on in the case of the S&W 3rd Gen guns, hammer) spring.

If the creed operates the same as the ppx when you rack the slide the hammer is precocked partially. Then the trigger pull finishes cocking the hammer. On my ppx the trigger pull if I had to guess would be around 4 to 4 1/2lbs and really clean. After firing the gun the reset is pretty short too. Great trigger.

 

[Schlegel]

Herr Walther,
Dom you know if this was fully made in the Ulm plant or was just some final assem b ly happen there so they could stamp the Ulm name on it like the CCP?

It's supposed to be made in Ulm. The proofmark will show it (CCP from Arnsburg= shield with crowns, Ulm is an antler)
The word Ulm on the slide is for corporate location, not factory location. Everything branded Walther will say Carl Walther, Ulm/Do.

 

[Fishbed77]

Herr Walther,
Dom you know if this was fully made in the Ulm plant or was just some final assem b ly happen there so they could stamp the Ulm name on it like the CCP?

Herr Walther,
Dom you know if this was fully made in the Ulm plant or was just some final assem b ly happen there so they could stamp the Ulm name on it like the CCP?

The PPX was made by Walther in Ulm, so it stands to reason that the Creed will be as well. But this can only be confirmed if we can see a close-up of the proof marks.

A real Walther will carry the "staghorn" proof mark of the Ulm proof house. An Umarex pistol will carry the "shield with three crowns" proof mark of the Cologne proof house.

The CCP doesn't undergo "final assembly" in Ulm. It is made completely at Umarex's factory in Arnsberg, Germany and caries the proof mark of the (nearby) Cologne proof house. Just having the work "Ulm" stamps on the pistol means nothing. Only the proof marks matter.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

I'm keeping my PPX's, they are nice guns, even if they are fugly.

I'll be interested in handling the creed, once they hit shelves.

 

[Kiln]

The PPX/Creed is a great gun. I have tons of budget guns and the PPX probably shoots better than 90% of them. The pre-cocked hammer sits flush with the slide until close to the end of the stroke. It is not a true double action trigger in the sense that if you have a failure to fire you'll have a dead trigger so you'd have to rack the slide to reset the hammer.

The trigger with this action is nothing short of amazing and despite being somewhat ugly, it is actually really comfortable.

I wrote a review over on the Hi Point forums (several pics there or I'd copy/paste here) giving my impressions of it. I'm happy they brought it back. I'm also happy that they listened to people's feedback and changed the gun's looks to be more appealing to people.

Feel free to remove this if it violates the rules, I just thought it'd be relevant:

http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/forum/f277/my-walther-ppx-review-314615/