Want some advice...Buying a safe.

[Big B]

I would like to buy a gun safe in the near future. The main two reasons are to keep the common crowbar weilding theif out, and to protect my guns, and other valueables from fire. I would like something smaller, in the 10 to 18 gun range, or 60" tall, 20" wide area. Right now my rifle sits in a soft case in the closet (unloaded). My revolver and all ammo are in a lock box that's bolted down. (not fire proof)

I like the browning theftguard series, but it's pretty expensive. How well do the same size Diamondback or Big Horn safes compare? Does their fire insulation in the door frame meet at the corners like Browning? I'm still trying to find a dealer for the other two, in my area, so I can compare them in person.

Does having the hinges on the outside make it easier to break into?

Do hinges on the inside really make it less fireproof?

I plan on installing the safe in a small closet, so it doesn't matter if the door opens 90 or 180 degrees.

What are you thoughts on buying a used safe? (if I can find one)
I'm basically looking for the best safe I can find for $500-$700. (California prices) Is that asking too much?

Thanks.

 

[jkingrph]

I do not know about brands now, I have a Winchester(Meinikie(sp)) that has a few years on it. Hinges on outside of a good safe are of no consequence as for as security is concerned. The door a quality safe have bolts, usually fixed that swing into position as the door closes so if the hinges are cut off that side of the door is still secured to the safe body. Consider metal thickness , the thicker and higher quality the better. Generally more thickness is found in doors and front frames, where most thieves will try to access the contents, when the easiest way on all safes is to turn around and peel the back or bottom to get in. If you can have it bolted to wall and or floor it will be much more secure. I learned all this from my father who was in the office equipment business and sold quite a few safes and money chests( which had 1"thick tool steel body and 3" thick tool steel door. We usually welded this to an angle frame and then poured a cubic yard of concrete around it or buried it into a concrete floor, reinforced in that area and to my knowledge never had one comprimised, except for being opened by a licensed, bonded safecracker for repair after an attempted theft).

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have the Winchester (Granite Security) RSC from Sam's Club. I've been perfectly happy with it. It is within your price range, but is larger than you want. Most will tell you that is a plus, though, as you generally are sorry you didn't buy a larger one as you acquire more guns. It's 600 lbs, though, so if you decide to get one, have plenty of help to move it.

 

[jason10mm]

Do a search for "residential security container" or RSC. We covered a LOT about this in the past. Bottom line, those sub$1000 safes won't deter a thief with a crowbar (he can slash through the thinner sides) or a typical house fire (both hotter and longer than the RSCs are rated for).

RSCs are useful for keeping benign guests out or being too tough for a smash and grab when your centrally monitored house alarm is blaring. Otherwise the thief who hits you when no one is home can get in and a large house fire will most likely render the contents useless.

 

[robsc]

Get the largest safe that you have room for /can afford. You will be amazed at the stuff that you will put into it.

 

[Japle]

I’ve got a Treadlock safe that I bought over 30 years ago. It’s a pretty good safe, made for firearms storage. Weighs about 180 lbs, empty.

The most important thing is the way it’s secured. A recent “It Takes a Thief” episode showed a gang of burglars stealing a lightweight cheap gun safe. The owner (a cop who should have known better) had screwed it to a closet wall, not bothering to hit anything except drywall. The BGs simply ripped it off the wall and two of them carried it out the door.

When I installed my safe, I glued and screwed a big slab of ¾” plywood to the wall, making sure the screws went through the steel studs. Then I screwed the safe to the plywood, running the screws through the plywood and into the studs. I also drilled holes in the concrete slab, JB Welded anchors in the holes and ran in some 5/8” hex screws with 3” washers.
This would not stop anyone with the right power tools from grinding through the lock, but it’ll have to do.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

We like the Browning Gold Series safes. One for long guns and one for handguns and other household stuff we want secured. We keep a separate premium quality firesafe for documents.

Safes are bolted into cement foundation, as well as wall studs from behind. It'll take enough time and make enough racket for a thief to try and steal to give our dogs ample time to wander over and properly say "hello."

Jeff

 

[glockman19]

American Security makes a nice firesafe gun safe.

 

[drgrenthum]

If you are not going to get a something over 750lbs you may want to look at something like the stack on safe. While they are light you can anchor them into concrete. Not going to with stand a bashing but for under a $1000 I dont know of anything new that will.

With that being said if you get an rsc or a stack on safe (they have safes and rsc's) i would recommend hiding it in a closet and building shelving around it. I did exactly that with this model:

http://www.sportsauthority.com/prod...&kw=safe&s=A-StorePrice-TSA&parentPage=search

I put casters behind the base molding on the shelving so it rolls out of the way fairly easy when i need to access to the safe. If you want pictures PM me. I have showed a couple of my closest friends and none of them realized that the safe was there, till i showed them. I am hoping that in the event of a break in that the theif will be in a hurry and overlook the seemingly wasted space behind the shelving.

 

[hso]

I usually cringe when the someone says "You should use the "Search" function first", but this topic has been so thoroughly and well covered thanks to two members in the safe/vault/RSC industry that I think the best thing anyone can do when they have a question about safes is to use the "Search" function here.

It will reveal scores of threads where the questions have been asked and answered by professionals in the industry and with anecdotes from other members.

Unfortunately, for the price you're asking about you won't get much unless you get lucky and find a used one.

 

[MAKster]

The hinges should only be for holding up the door when open. The door bolts are what is going to prevent someone from prying open the door. On some low end gun safes there are no bolts or fixed bar on the hinge side which isn't good. In the 12 gauge under $1000 category there isn't much realistic difference between the brands. All the basic models will stop the smash and grab punks but in order to stop real pros with tools you need to get into the over $2500 level. These safes are over 1000 pounds and not practical for most people. You're really not getting much extra security in between. The Winchester brand model sold at Sams Club is considered the best of the low end. The entry level Browning is about the same quality. Both are better than the Stack-On and Sentry models.

 

[Big B]

Wow, I can't help but feel a little bummed. Some of you have made too good of an arguement for me to ignore your advice on not buying a higher end safe.
I didn't know that the $1000 - $2000 range was still looked down on by some.
My apologies HSO, I spent some time on the search engine for this site before posting. I found myself sifting through pages of posts with very little info I was looking for. Must be time to refine my search.
Since the closet I'll use is very small, it might be worth saving my pennies to make the closet a vault itself.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[TxState101]

Well, if you're planning on making the closet a vault, Browning sells a security door that looks like a regular closet door that can have keypad access up to seven feet away.

Saw it in the Browning catalog, big bucks though. MSRP is somewhere around $3300 I believe.

 

[xjchief]

Everyone says buy the biggest and strongest you can afford. I did and I'm happy as a clam. They fill up a lot quicker than you think!

Plenty of info here but stay away from the 12 gauge el cheapo units as they'll keep your kids out but anybody with an IQ of more than 90 will quickly figure out that a couple of kicks or a prybar works as well as a key or a combo.

 

[Mr.Sig]

Hey Big B, I just went through the same thing. After doing a lot of research, I came to the conclusion you really need to spend $2000 to get something with decent theft protection, with the exception being a Sturdy Safe without a fire lining which was around $1500 delivered. I was leaning towards a BF series from A1. Then I started looking in the papers and on Craigslist. Within 2 weeks I found a beautiful pre-Liberty National Security for $500. It has a 3/8" steel door and a 3/16" body and weighs around 800 lbs. Why not look for something used?

 

[PTK]

No "small" safe will stop a crowbar and axe. I settled for a Graffunder - anything less is made of sheet metal and is quickly/easily defeated.

$5-700 will only get you something with minimal fire resistance and the ability to keep honest hands honest. A simple crowbar or axe would get in (almost) any sub-$3k safe in a hurry.

 

[1776 Rebel]

My humble advice...Just like optics buy quality. That just plain means you are going to have to spend a good chunk of change. If you don't have the money now then save up for it. It took me three years to buy a Liberty high end model. You can find good deals at outdoor shows etc. Talk to the distributors. Ask if they have any scratch and dent model (Gander Mountain by me has safes at 60% off MSRP cause of paint chips and the like).

You can do all the research you want but if you don't want to become an industry expert just focus on the couple of big names. Liberty and Fort Knox. They didn't get their reputation because they were crap. Buy their higher end models and your set. End of story. If you want to consider something out of the box look at Zanotti. IMHO lacking some of the features etc of the other two, but especially for self assembly in a closet might just fit the bill.

The prior comment that they fill up fast is right on target. You will find yourself loading it with guns, ammo, optics, cameras, jewerly etc etc....I give you about 1 month before you say I should have bought a bigger size.

 

[scrat]

i have 2 both cabelas safes. best advice i can give you is buy the biggest you can afford. Please listen.


if i wanted to purchase another gun today i would have to figure out where to put it or get another safe. As it is i have 1 here and 1 at my parents house.