Want to buy a Model 12. What to look out for?

[nextjoe]

I'm looking for my first Model 12, and I was wondering if there are any specific problems that old Model 12s commonly have. I already read the old TFL "used pump gun" thread, and I know what general problems to watch for.

Are there any specific weaknesses in the Model 12 or parts that are prone to failure/breakage? Also, how can I determine how much the takedown mechanism has worn?

Thanks in advance,
Joe

 

[TrapperReady]

A) Congrats on your decision!

B) With regards to the take-down, it uses a form of interrupted screw. It's unlikely that you would encounter one that had been torn down so frequently that the mechanism had actually worn. The problems generally occur when someone doesn't have it lined up correctly and then forces the pieces to rotate together. Damage of this sort should be visible. Just have the shotgun taken down and carefully inspect the threads. If they appear mangled in any way, then pass on that gun.

C) I've seen some that show rust on the action bar near where it enters the receiver. Generally it's not enough to be a real issue.

Dave probably has a more thorough list. I seem to remember him mentioning something about peening... but can't remember what.

BTW, whenever I see a used Model 12, I always take a pretty close look. Much like an 870, they can appear totally trashed, but when you shuck the slide, it's like butter on the 4th of July. In fact, there's a beater at a local shop that's been calling to me for a couple of months. In fact, if I stop typing, I can just barely hear it now.

 

[kudu]

Check also if the serial numbers match on the barrel and reciever, they are right above each other on the bottom of the gun.

If the gun has been reblued it decreases the value, but not the shootability. It can usually be determined if the serial #s and logos are very smooth like they have been buffed down removing the sharpness of the stamping.

 

[Bainx]

If you are getting a 16 gage, made in 1932, then, you may have a problem with the empty ejecting. Mine hangs up an empty. Seems the empty is longer than the ejection port. I can not find anyone who can explain this.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Some 12s have enough rounds through them that the bolt and lugs have peened a bit. A smith fix, new metal is welded on and filed/honed to fit.

Some triggers are a little too light for safety. I'd want at least a 3.5 lb pull.

And older 12s have The Curse of The Short Chamber Demon. Those have 2 9/16" chambers.

Check the extractor hook. The bend should be a hair over 90 degrees, I understand.

Mayhap a REAL 12 expert can kick in here....

 

[nextjoe]

Thanks for all the info.

Dave, do you have any information regarding when the switch to 2 3/4" chambers happened?

Best,
Joe

 

[Red Label]

According to my information from Winchester, the 12 ga. was always 2 3/4. 12 ga heavy duck was 3". 16 ga. was 2 9/16 until 1927 when it changed to 2 3/4. 20 ga was 2 1/2 until 1925 when it changed to 2 3/4. 28 ga shows to have 2 7/8 chamber. Have fun. M12s have a soft spot in my heart and if you get one they may just multiply.

 

[Red Label]

By the way, my 16 ga has the short chamber. I have been able to get 2 1/2 shells for it at the Dundee Cabelas. I see you are from Detroit.

 

[TrapperReady]

Short chambers aren't much of a problem anymore, since there are a number of companies making shells for them. I've got a 16ga A5, and picked up a couple cases of shells from Westley Richards. Of course, if you can find a place locally, you can save on shipping.

If you reload, MEC makes an adapter plate.

 

[nextjoe]

Thanks again for all the feedback. The one I'd been watching on Gunbroker sold this morning. A 1947 12 gauge in 98% original condition, except for a Polychoke added. Went for $355. I'm wondering if I should be kicking myself.

 

[TrapperReady]

Don't worry about that. Personally, I'd not consider one with the monstrosity on the end of the tube.

 

[Traveler]

There are plenty of good M12's available. I picked up a very nice two barrel set (yes, they made them) in 16ga for under $500 last year.

The problem with ejection is mainly due to the changes in ammunition. Plastic shells are longer than the old paper shells the guns were made to use. This can be fixed, but usually is not worth the cost.

Unless the gun is is very good condition the value should be under $500. I tend to avoid the "trap" models as I have found them to be the most often modified, and most heavily used. "Duck" models tend to have shorter LOP than all other models.

If I was looking for a gun to use I would try hard to find either a Skeet or IC (rarer) choked gun. You will find that with modern ammo they tend to pattern tighter than expected. I would avoid all full chokes unless I specifically was going to shoot Trap or was going to install Briley type choke tubes, and all adjustable chokes unless the total cost was under $200.

 

[Red Label]

I agree with Traveller on the full choke. My 12 ga. is a full and it is my main trap gun but it is so tight that is about all it is good for, but my what a trap gun It's as Dave says about his 870, a death ray on clays, at least for trap. Like I said before, When you get one they will multiply. I've got to find me a 20 ga. yet. Oh and wait till you shoot a M42

 

[TrapperReady]

If you are planning on shooting lead, then I wouldn't worry at all about full choke. In fact, ALL of my fixed choke guns are Full and I knock down a lot of birds and clays with them every year. As long as you pass up the super-close shots, it's not a problem and can extend your range a bit.

Also, any competent smith should be able to open up a choke a bit if you want to do so. It's more of a hassle and expense to go the other way. Lot's of old guns were made with tight chokes...it'd be a shame to have to pass on all of them.

 

[Dave McCracken]

IIRC, the change to 2 3/4" officially came in the 20s for the 12 and the 97. Any decent smith can tell in minutes.

Back when turkey shoots were held locally, some shoots banned 12s or made them shoot only against each other. This is where I first heard the old "If a dime won't fit down the muzzle" canard. Old 12s are choked tightly, a minor prob.

As for Polychokes, they do work. I find them distracting, but I can shoot OK with one provided I use it regularly.