Wanye is out of his mind

[Warp]

[lots of words that did not say anything about what TO do

Let me know when you have a superior alternative. It's a lot easier to come up with a way to bash what somebody does than to present an alternative, eh?

+ I fail to understand how proposing to pay to fund a program is attempting to exploit a situation

 

[481]

Sorry, but the news conference was an opportunity to start a dialogue. If you have been involved in problem solving in a group setting, you have to get buy in. Framing the issue is much different than providing a solution.

The NRA news conference provided a solution before the public debate has even framed the question. That is simply doing things backwards.

In addition, they were still conducting funerals at the time of the news conference. No one was ready to hear a message of we need more guns.

All that he did was to put the focus back on guns instead of putting the focus on the security issues. No one heard in the sound quips we have security failures. What they heard was, we need more guns.

Sorry, wrong message, wrong time. This was an unmitigated tactical error.

The question has already been framed- "How do we prevent tragedies like Sandy Hook from occurring again?" and the press conference was the opening statement of the NRA's part in this dialog whether you recognize it or not.

The armed security issue is not independent of guns, therefore the two cannot be separated- LaPierre addressed the issue of security, hence the NRA's National School Shield program in case you missed that, too.

 

[gc70]

Look at the posts on THR on this thread. Even in his political base, there is much disagreement due to the fiscal costs of a nationwide school guard force. Sorry, there is uniform opposition to this proposal in the general public.

While you have every right to your opinion, declaring your opinion to be that of everyone else is stretching things a lot.

As far as "uniform opposition" by the public, that would probably surprise the 28% of the country's schools that already have some form of armed security (Department of Education data reported by the Wall Street Journal).

 

[H&R Glock]

I never hit anyone in the head with a hammer after watching the Three Stooges either.
I am 69 years old. I have played Doom not long ago and had a good time blasting MONSTERS. Doom did not make a game of shooting people, at least as far as I can remember.
I think the number one cause of these "madmen" attacking masses of people is based in the home. The way they were brought up. I also figure these "Madmen" also fall into the drug dealer category.
There are too many kids today that are fatherless and have no parental DICIPLINE. Parents no longer discipline their kids. Government meddling into the family dicipline has caused parents to feel that they will be jailed for kicking their kids asses when they need to be kicked.
Kids that get away with minor crimes when they are kids will commit major crimes when they grow up.
These fatherless kids, lacking direction, education and the monitary backing (due to lack of a father and his income) fall into the only path they have to attain the great American dream. They rebel and become criminals so that their income can match or overshadow those who have become independent through education, family backing, etc. These fatherless kids can also lose all hope of ever being recognized as a successful citizen and decide to make a scene of their lives and commit dasdardly crimes.
I hope we have some psycologists here that can straighten me out if I am off track.

 

[Alaska444]

Let me know when you have a superior alternative. It's a lot easier to come up with a way to bash what somebody does than to present an alternative, eh?

+ I fail to understand how proposing to pay to fund a program is attempting to exploit a situation

Sorry, I was asked several posts ago what I thought he did wrong in the press conference. This my answer to what I found wrong with the press conference.

I have no problem with CCW in school zones like the Utah law. Do we need armed guards in every school, probably not if we simply eliminate the gun free zones. That is part of the issue. I don't believe the first news conference was the time to present a comprehensive lobbying campaign for armed guards. Just poor taste in light of the issues.

Even Obama didn't propose a solution in his first news conference. Instead he framed the question to his agenda. Then he put together a group to look at the issues without yet presenting a solution. He is spending a great deal of effort to frame the question.

The NRA was silent for a week and then jumped into the game with a ready made solution and now they are going to put their muscle behind promoting this ready made solution. Sorry, anyone that has done any group discussions and problem solving knows this just engenders push back against the proposal which is exactly what we are seeing.

Obama has yet to put forth any proposals. Please consider Obama's tactics. It is all about getting America to answer the question, do we have too many guns in America? Associating that question with the recent tragedy, most who haven't put a lot of thought into the issue are going to say, yes, we have way too many bad rifles in America. Let's ban assault rifles and it will make us safer.

Instead of focussing on dialogue, buy in and reframing the question that Obama has already framed, the NRA went to an old proposal that the public already rejected year ago. Where is the room for dialogue and buy in?

Sorry, you can say what you want, but the NRA press conference is one of the worst attempts to diffuse a situation I have ever seen. Once again, I don't disagree with getting rid of gun free zones nor am I against the idea of armed guards.

However, if he ends up proposing another TSA type of Federal agency, then no thanks, I am against his proposal completely.

 

[Warp]

Sorry, I was asked several posts ago what I thought he did wrong in the press conference. This my answer to what I found wrong with the press conference.

I have no problem with CCW in school zones like the Utah law. Do we need armed guards in every school, probably not if we simply eliminate the gun free zones. That is part of the issue. I don't believe the first news conference was the time to present a comprehensive lobbying campaign for armed guards. Just poor taste in light of the issues.

Even Obama didn't propose a solution in his first news conference. Instead he framed the question to his agenda. Then he put together a group to look at the issues without yet presenting a solution. He is spending a great deal of effort to frame the question.

The NRA was silent for a week and then jumped into the game with a ready made solution and now they are going to put their muscle behind promoting this ready made solution. Sorry, anyone that has done any group discussions and problem solving knows this just engenders push back against the proposal which is exactly what we are seeing.

Obama has yet to put forth any proposals. Please consider Obama's tactics. It is all about getting America to answer the question, do we have too many guns in America? Associating that question with the recent tragedy, most who haven't put a lot of thought into the issue are going to say, yes, we have way too many bad rifles in America. Let's ban assault rifles and it will make us safer.

Instead of focussing on dialogue, buy in and reframing the question that Obama has already framed, the NRA went to an old proposal that the public already rejected year ago. Where is the room for dialogue and buy in?

Sorry, you can say what you want, but the NRA press conference is one of the worst attempts to diffuse a situation I have ever seen. Once again, I don't disagree with getting rid of gun free zones nor am I against the idea of armed guards.

However, if he ends up proposing another TSA type of Federal agency, then no thanks, I am against his proposal completely.

Obama is not getting America to answer the question.

As he has already stated, he knows what he wants to do/see get done. This heinous crime is simply a way to help him push that agenda

 

[Alaska444]

Obama is not getting America to answer the question.

As he has already stated, he knows what he wants to do/see get done. This heinous crime is simply a way to help him push that agenda

Let's take a look at how Obama is proceeding and will win significant gun control measures if we have further idiotic measures like the recent NRA disaster.

Obama is continuing to frame the question and start a national dialogue:

Obama to task Biden to tackle gun violence after Newtown shootings

President Barack Obama is launching an administration-wide effort to curb gun violence, underscoring the growing political consensus over tightening gun restrictions following the horrific elementary school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut.

Obama is tasking Vice President Joe Biden, a longtime gun control advocate, with spearheading the effort.

In remarks from the White House on Wednesday, Obama will outline a process for pursuing policy changes following the school shooting, though he is not expected to call for specific measures.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...kle-gun-violence-after-newtown-shootings?lite

So the framework is how to tackle gun violence.

The NRA had a chance to frame the question as lack of school security and engage Americans in that debate. Please note that Obama has NOT yet given any concrete proposals. He is spending a great deal of time framing the question of what to do with gun violence. Instead the NRA should have focussed on "what can we do to improve school security." That is what I mean by reframing the question.

The real issue of this is lack of security in these artificial gun free zones. The NRA has opened their game with no framework for discussion because they have already jumped to their own conclusion not allowing them to be a player in the national discussion that Obama will direct through Biden's task force. That question will be what to do about gun violence. Armed guards will not be part of that discussion I am pretty sure since that is not the question that Obama is discussing. The solution to that logically in most folks minds will be reduce the number of guns and put further restrictions on gun ownership.

The question all of us look at is school security and how to improve school security. Obama has framed the question that will be debated and it is not what to do about our lack of school security even the school shooting will be at the center of the discussion.

Sorry, the NRA news conference is an unmitigated disaster that did not reframe the question at all. He completely skipped that process which is what he should have done in the press conference. Given the NRA's inability for their security to prevent the code pink attack, not too many folks outside of the gun community are going to buy in his proposal. I don't believe we have any republicans supporting him either.

In addition, look at how many oppose using public funds for this on THR. Just a horrible performance on so many different levels.

 

[Warp]

I see that you have not watched the presidential debates.

I suggest doing so, before you talk more about what Hussein wants to do

 

[WSM MAGNUM]

THis guys has to be kidding me...Videogames, movies?

Thats what they are blaming? If they would stop with the fingerpointing and give some REAL idea on how to fend off these horrible issues.

I dont have any moral issues playing video games and watching violent movies...Wanye can kiss my ass


You don`t get it!
It`s young kids minds that are being taught at a young age that violence and killing is acceptable to escape their problems. Society has pushed God away and evil takes over. It`s not only video games... it`s also pornography and other sinful iniquities that is destroying society.
You are essentially helping the anti`s by insulting Wayne and not staying in the NRA.

 

[Alaska444]

Obama is not getting America to answer the question.

As he has already stated, he knows what he wants to do/see get done. This heinous crime is simply a way to help him push that agenda

Yes, we all knew he would tackle gun control in his second term. But Obama is using tried and true methods of PR while the NRA is accomplishing a PR disaster. Yes, of course, he has an agenda, but he is motivating the public to his views through a very well laid out PR campaign. The process begins by framing the question.

 

[Warp]

THis guys has to be kidding me...Videogames, movies?

Thats what they are blaming? If they would stop with the fingerpointing and give some REAL idea on how to fend off these horrible issues.

I dont have any moral issues playing video games and watching violent movies...Wanye can kiss my ass


You don`t get it!
It`s young kids minds that are being taught at a young age that violence and killing is acceptable to escape their problems. Society has pushed God away and evil takes over. It`s not only video games... it`s also pornography and other sinful iniquities that is destroying society.
You are essentially helping the anti`s by insulting Wayne and not staying in the NRA.

Did you watch the (entire) speech?

 

[Alaska444]

I see that you have not watched the presidential debates.

I suggest doing so, before you talk more about what Hussein wants to do

Yes, I saw them all.

Please tell me what legislation Obama has proposed. Please show me his executive orders.

You won't find them, yet, Obama is playing out a very well orchestrated PR program.

The NRA is NOT the only gun organization and I decided I didn't want any part of them years ago, but I do belong to another organization that I believe has a better approach.

The NRA show was and is an example for the ages on how not to conduct a press conference.

 

[Alaska444]

THis guys has to be kidding me...Videogames, movies?

Thats what they are blaming? If they would stop with the fingerpointing and give some REAL idea on how to fend off these horrible issues.

I dont have any moral issues playing video games and watching violent movies...Wanye can kiss my ass


You don`t get it!
It`s young kids minds that are being taught at a young age that violence and killing is acceptable to escape their problems. Society has pushed God away and evil takes over. It`s not only video games... it`s also pornography and other sinful iniquities that is destroying society.
You are essentially helping the anti`s by insulting Wayne and not staying in the NRA.

Sorry, Wayne is not my spokesperson nor am I going to rejoin the NRA. I was a member for one year and after he sold us out on different issues, I said no more. I don't trust him or them and the NRA is responding to this event like buffoons. They certainly are not handling it as a professional PR firm would in any manner.

In any case, the NRA can only make recommendations. It will be up to our lame brain politicians to actually fight this battle, but the NRA is loosing the PR campaign.

On the other hand, video games and all of the other media and what we are teaching our kids is completely against the word of God which you have correctly stated. One of the principles of God's word is that you reap which you sow. Is it any wonder when America sows the seed of violence in our kids daily that we reap a harvest of violence? No, America is not sowing peace and love, or even strength and virtue, but instead the lowest and basest and most vile and wicked abominations are now glorified in public. Yes, America is reaping what it has sown for decades.

 

[481]

Yes, we all knew he would tackle gun control in his second term. But Obama is using tried and true methods of PR while the NRA is accomplishing a PR disaster. Yes, of course, he has an agenda, but he is motivating the public to his views through a very well laid out PR campaign. The process begins by framing the question.

You must've missed it then. The question, "How do we protect our children from monsters who would enter a school building and murder them all as they sit unprotected?" has already been framed.

The answer, even if you dislike it, is quite simple. We need to secure our schools and protect them just as we do for our politicans, celebrities, nukes, sports arenas, airports, gold, and government buildings.

We must provide professional armed security for our children in our schools, design schools so that they are more physically securable against these threats, and eliminate the "protected murder preserves" that we call "gun free zones".

 

[Alaska444]

You must've missed it then. The question, "How do we protect our children from monsters who would enter a school building and murder them all as they sit unprotected?" has already been framed.

The answer, even if you dislike it, is quite simple. We need to secure our schools and protect them just as we do for our politicans, celebrities, nukes, sports arenas, airports, gold, and government buildings.

We must provide professional armed security for our children in our schools, design schools so that they are more physically securable against these threats, and eliminate the "protected murder preserves" that we call "gun free zones".

Dear 481, go back and read all of my posts. I am NOT disagreeing with getting rid of gun free zones, far from it. I carry daily and hate going to anyplace I have to disarm such as the local mall.

I just think that Obama is playing a much better PR game than the NRA based on the science of changing people's views. A heavy handed, argumentative and confrontational approach at this point in time is simply stupid and does more harm than good in my opinion. It is a PR game at this point, not a political game. Group dynamics and influencing people's perceptions is a huge social science field. The NRA look like neanderthals when it comes to using sophisticated and proven PR techniques.

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Napalm is a troll. A Brady bunch troll. Don't feed the trolls.

 

[IBEWBULL]

I am proud to be a life member of the NRA as weell as my wife and two of the three kids too.
I think Wayne hit the nail on the head.
The moral decline and the desensitation to violence brought to us by the media, movies and yes video games has effected us all. Oh don't forget the music.
Another thing I am not sure was mentioned is the side effects of drugs. The automatic pushing of a pill to solve a percieved problem has become common place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4&feature=player_embedded
This link is a bit dated but worthy of your time.
Since the first murder Caine began the lineage of the Kenites and spread the seed of satin it made the world a harder place to live in. Evil and good have been batteling since the catabo and the first fallen angles came to earth.
All we can do is our best and attempt to do God's will. No one ever said it would be easy. Look at Job and what he went through.

 

[481]

Dear 481, go back and read all of my posts. I am NOT disagreeing with getting rid of gun free zones, far from it. I carry daily and hate going to anyplace I have to disarm such as the local mall.

I just think that Obama is playing a much better PR game than the NRA based on the science of changing people's views. A heavy handed, argumentative and confrontational approach at this point in time is simply stupid and does more harm than good in my opinion. It is a PR game at this point, not a political game. Group dynamics and influencing people's perceptions is a huge social science field. The NRA look like neanderthals when it comes to using sophisticated and proven PR techniques.

If you truly feel that way that is fine, but your endless denigration of the NRA (like calling them "stupid", "neanderthals", and "buffoons") is far from constructive and your persistent harping on it post after post suggests a less than honorable agenda on your behalf.

It is enough to make me (and apparently many others here) suspect your intentions and your claims.

 

[Warp]

You must've missed it then. The question, "How do we protect our children from monsters who would enter a school building and murder them all as they sit unprotected?" has already been framed.

The answer, even if you dislike it, is quite simple. We need to secure our schools and protect them just as we do for our politicans, celebrities, nukes, sports arenas, airports, gold, and government buildings.

We must provide professional armed security for our children in our schools, design schools so that they are more physically securable against these threats, and eliminate the "protected murder preserves" that we call "gun free zones".

Yes

 

[Alaska444]

If you truly feel that way that is fine, but your endless denigration of the NRA (like calling them "stupid", "neanderthals", and "buffoons") is far from constructive and your persistent harping on it post after post suggests a less than honorable agenda on your behalf.

It is enough to make me (and apparently many others here) suspect your intentions and your claims.

You are wrong my friend, I have no dishonorable intentions. I don't trust the NRA to protect my gun rights at all and I haven't for quite some time. I have participated in many group discussions as a team leader and understand some of the basic science behind changing people's opinions of controversial topics.

I am not alone in criticizing their press conference and failed diversion against video games.

Stick to the issue which is the lack of security in our schools. Once again, go look at some news reports on how Obama is proceeding. To date, he has ventured no solutions. Obama is following the steps of PR to frame the question. Once again, his question: How can we stop gun violence?

Our question is: How can we improve school security?

Unless something is done to engage the question and the dialogue, then Obama wins pure and simple because he will in the final analysis ignore our question in any substantive way and instead hammer away on his question. The first thing you have to do is to frame the proper question. To just blast forth without any finesse and propose a very controversial solution in the eyes of many in the public before we have had the discussion on a national basis is just poor tactics.

If we can't comprehend that as gun owners, then just sit back and wait for Obama's PR program to run its course. Our PR program through the NRA is off to a horrible start.

In any case, I am not a PR expert by any means, but I do understand the fundamentals of shaping a discussion to get to the conclusion you wish to reach. The NRA is playing a different game than the president who is spending a great deal of time framing HIS question.

As of today, the question will be: What can we do about gun violence? If that is the question that the American people are presented, then Obama will win. How much he will win is yet to be determined. The NRA bunker mentality will be rejected even by those we could have pulled over to our side. Once again, go look at the link on framing the question, it goes into much greater detail on this issue than I have but that is the game that is being played right now. So far, Obama is ahead.

 

[Warp]

You are wrong my friend, I have no dishonorable intentions. I don't trust the NRA to protect my gun rights at all and I haven't for quite some time. I have participated in many group discussions as a team leader and understand some of the basic science behind changing people's opinions of controversial topics.

I am not alone in criticizing their press conference and failed diversion against video games.

Stick to the issue which is the lack of security in our schools. Once again, go look at some news reports on how Obama is proceeding. To date, he has ventured no solutions. Obama is following the steps of PR to frame the question. Once again, his question: How can we stop gun violence?

Our question is: How can we improve school security?

Unless something is done to engage the question and the dialogue, then Obama wins pure and simple. The first thing you have to do is to frame the proper question. To just blast forth without any finesse and propose a very controversial solution before we have had the discussion on a national basis is just poor tactics.

Anybody who has been paying attention, and who has watched/listened to the speeches made by each in the past 10 days, knows darn well that your representation is not accurate.

 

[Alaska444]

Yes

Yes, that is the question, but look at what Obama has done. We already know what his answer is, gun control in whatever form it will take shape.

Please understand, if you wish to engage someone in a dialogue on controversial issues, throwing a hard to accept conclusion at the beginning of the process only hardens their resolve to oppose that solution.

Sorry, I have stated this same thing over and over again. Go learn more about the PR principles that are proven to shape people's opinions. We need to engage a dialogue by framing the question. It is way too early to come up with an entire lobbying campaign BEFORE you lay the framework of public acceptance for that solution. You build the foundation before you build the castle. The NRA HAS NOT built any foundation.

People simply do not understand the tactics of self defense and defensive security if they are not a gun owner. The NRA needs to educate and focus on the lack of school security before going off on their own without getting a discussion between the public and those that will make these decisions in congress. They are simply putting the cart before the horse.

in any case, I have stated the same thing several times over. Have a great night.

 

[Warp]

lol at pretending that last week was the beginning of the process of discussing gun control/"gun violence"

 

[Alaska444]

Anybody who has been paying attention, and who has watched/listened to the speeches made by each in the past 10 days, knows darn well that your representation is not accurate.

Have a great night, I have listed references and examples, but have a great night. Nevertheless, watch as Obama lays a framework of first his question, then his evidence and then last of all way down the line the solution. I have no doubt that they have already prepared the solution a looong time ago, but that is not the game they are playing.

Look at how long he took to put forth Obamacare and how long it took to lay the foundation. And even with a lot of public opposition, they simply jammed it down our throats. That my friend is what is coming down the pike.

We can either be smarter than they are and use proven PR techniques, or we can watch him roll over us again.

in any case, I have said all I have to say about this issue. Have a great night.

 

[Alaska444]

lol at pretending that last week was the beginning of the process of discussing gun control/"gun violence"

It is for Obama. This is the start of HIS campaign we have long expected.

When or where has he proposed any EO's or legislation even after the Aurora shootings? No my friend, this is the beginning of Obama's gun control campaign.

In any case, have a great night.