Was there a revolver whose use was preferred by the U.S. Cavalry during the Civil War?
- Thread starter Redfang44
- Start date
hawg
Member
1860 Colt.
entropy
Member
My guess would be one of the 3 Dragoon models amongst the Regular Army cavalry, some of whom had previous combat experience.
But, you use what you're issued. My Civil War ancestor was issued an 1858 Remington, as a Light Artillery Sgt.
But, you use what you're issued. My Civil War ancestor was issued an 1858 Remington, as a Light Artillery Sgt.
J-Bar
Member
I have no information specific to cavalry. Approximately 272,000 1851 Navy revolvers were made, compared to about 200,000 1860 Armies. From sheer production numbers, it seems likely that the 1851 was more common than the 1860, but this is a guess. Less than 10,000 of each of the Dragoons were produced.
(production numbers from Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth!)
(production numbers from Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth!)
J-Bar
Member
Edit:
I found another reference; Firearms of the American West, 1803-1865; Garavaglia and Worman, 1984.
There was a transition during the Civil War, with the 1851 being most common at the beginning, but with the 1860 being preferred at the end. This reference also lists a large number of other revolvers, including foreign revolvers, purchased by the Union to supply its soldiers:
Union purchases from mid-1861 to mid-1862:
39,368 Colt (1860)
14, 816 Colt (1851)
10,640 Remington
11,274 Savage
3,288 Whitney
1,346 Beal
975 Joslyn
4,900 Starr
1,977 horse pistols
11,904 LeFaucheux
1,350 other foreign
...good reference!
I found another reference; Firearms of the American West, 1803-1865; Garavaglia and Worman, 1984.
There was a transition during the Civil War, with the 1851 being most common at the beginning, but with the 1860 being preferred at the end. This reference also lists a large number of other revolvers, including foreign revolvers, purchased by the Union to supply its soldiers:
Union purchases from mid-1861 to mid-1862:
39,368 Colt (1860)
14, 816 Colt (1851)
10,640 Remington
11,274 Savage
3,288 Whitney
1,346 Beal
975 Joslyn
4,900 Starr
1,977 horse pistols
11,904 LeFaucheux
1,350 other foreign
...good reference!
hawg
Member
If the Colt factory hadn't burned in Feb. of 1864 the Colt numbers would be much higher.
entropy
Member
I believe the operative word in Redfang44's question would be 'preferred'.
We'll probably never know the definitive answer, but it would seem logical to extend current trends in preference of military weapons by professional combatants of preferring weapons from the last war fought before the current one, that the Walker and Dragoons would be preferred, as the 1911 was preferred by Spec ops at least in the beginning of GWOT.
During the Civil War, the most privately purchased handgun used in the war would have to be the 1849 Colt, as some officers and NCOs carried them as BUGs, and many enlisted bought or acquired them on the battlefield, (as well as Colts, Remingtons, and the others in J-Bar's list above.)
We'll probably never know the definitive answer, but it would seem logical to extend current trends in preference of military weapons by professional combatants of preferring weapons from the last war fought before the current one, that the Walker and Dragoons would be preferred, as the 1911 was preferred by Spec ops at least in the beginning of GWOT.
During the Civil War, the most privately purchased handgun used in the war would have to be the 1849 Colt, as some officers and NCOs carried them as BUGs, and many enlisted bought or acquired them on the battlefield, (as well as Colts, Remingtons, and the others in J-Bar's list above.)
hawg
Member
I imagine there were more cheaper pocket revolvers like Bacon, Whitney, Cooper etc. sold than Colts. I know some officers carried them but I doubt many infantrymen did. You wouldn't catch a foot soldier carrying one ounce more than he had to. Many of them even managed to "lose" their bayonets.
Mike OTDP
Member
After the war, the Army sold the Colts...and kept the Remingtons. Which I consider to have been the right decision, the Remington is stronger and more accurate.
hawg
Member
They may have but the military had a surplus of revolvers after the war and Remingtons last contract of 20,000 revolvers was filled in 1865 so they may have sold off the older Colts and kept the newer Remingtons. The Remington design isn't stronger than Colt for the loads of the time and I can find no ordnance board findings saying they were more accurate or any other findings on the subject. Colt actually had a top strap revolver before Remington but went back to the open top design.
J-Bar
Member
I guess General Grant's Remingtons don't count.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/riac-blog/ulysses-s-grant-remington-revolvers
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
You "PREFER" the one that you were issued because that is the one that you are going to get issued ammunition for!!!
If you like the 1851 Navy .36 caliber Colt revolver for its balance, etc. but your unit was issued Colt 1860's then the .44 caliber ammunition is what you are going to draw!
Your .36 Navy will make a great "rock" to throw at the advancing enemy if it has no cartridges.
If you like the 1851 Navy .36 caliber Colt revolver for its balance, etc. but your unit was issued Colt 1860's then the .44 caliber ammunition is what you are going to draw!
Your .36 Navy will make a great "rock" to throw at the advancing enemy if it has no cartridges.
I am 100% certain what you got was what was issued to you. Unless you had the money to buy one yourself, and your unit commander allowed that. I have read enough Civil War stories to know, many units were very upset about having no arms, for a long time. Or old small arms, or old European small arms. The first year of war is always the worst.
How do you think this WW1 German felt about being armed with a musket originally made in the 1770's? (then modified to cartridge a half century later)
M1777/67, M1841/53/67, M1853/67 and M1873 Belgian Albini-Braendlin
I know more about the Civil War rifle situation than the pistol. And I know more about the service swords than the pistol. The thing is, the North was scrambling for arms, and it was in competition with the South for surplus arms in Europe. All sorts of junk came back from Europe and was issued till American factories got their production lines going. Southerners had it worse. After the battle of Kernstown, the 7th Virginia Cavalry Commander, Col Turner Ashby wrote in a letter to Sec of War Judah Benjamin that one of his men rode bare back and his only weapon was a club! From what I have read, the South got most of its weapons from battlefield capture. Arsenals in the South were raided, but most of the arms there were old and obsolete. Some stuff came through the blockage. No doubt early on, a lot of cavalry troopers, both North and South were armed with single shot pistols. And glad to have one, instead of a club!
I do know there were lots of pistol models and makes, and the only "logical" conclusion is, the ones that were the made the most, were the ones that were issued the most. But when, where, and to whom, I don't know who has that data.
Some might find these stories amusing
Confederate Veteran Vol 15
COMBAT AT LOCKRIDGE'S MILL.
A most thrilling account is given of the hand-to-hand combat between Colonel Ballentine and a Federal officer—perhaps the Major Hoffman referred to above. Ballentine, then captain, with his command, was pursuing Federals on retreat, and, presenting his pistol, he demanded that the Federal officer surrender. That officer, with saber in hand, smiled at the Confederate and asked him to put up his pistol and he would fight him. Ballentine saw that his antagonist was a gentleman and realized that he was brave, so the challenge was accepted. Placing his pistol in its holster, Captain Ballentine spurred his horse and dashed to the side of the Federal, who was ready and skillfully warded off the blade. Captain Ballentine soon realized that the Federal was a better swordsman, but that he had the better horse. They fought along the road for a great distance. At one vicious stroke by the enemy Ballentine's soft hat was shorn of its brim; then he made a desperate and fatal thrust, piercing the side of the brave Federal officer, who surrendered.
Before the Federal officer died he expressed admiration for the man who slew him, and presented him with his horse. Soon afterwards Captain Ballentine was promoted to colonel and to the command of the 2nd Mississippi Cavalry
FORREST'S CAPTURE OF COL. R. G. INGERSOLL. BY COL. V. Y. COOK, NEWPORT, ARK. Perhaps a few words about Genera] Forrest's West Tennessee campaign in the winter of 1862 and the capture of Col. Robert G. Ingersoll would be of interest to the Veteran. The incidents attending these events occurred forty-four years ago, and are now recounted without data. I was a boy at the time, just past my fourteenth birthday, and had not then joined the army; but was on a runaway from home, with a few choice associates for that purpose, trying to get South through the Federal lines, being closely followed by my father, who, while in perfect accord with the Southern cause, objected to my entering its army on account of youth. Thus on the 18th of December, 1862, we were caught almost in the very jaws of the two hostile forces. Having quit the main road for a few miles to avoid a collision with a Federal cavalry column moving southward, upon coming into the road again we gladly, though unexpectedly, met General For[1]rest's advance, composed of four companies of Russell's 4th Alabama Cavalry, commanded by Capt. Frank B. Gurley, then near Lexington, in West Tennessee, and which in a very few minutes thereafter encountered the 3d Battalion of the 5th Ohio Cavalry, some three hundred strong, commanded by Capt. James C. Harrison, which command Captain Gurley charged and drove rearward at a furious gait until the eastern limits of Lexington were reached, making many captures. There strong epaulements had been hastily erected for the Federal artillery, with dismounted cavalry on each flank and in support. Here Captain Gurley formed for battle and paused for alignment, at which juncture General Forrest arrived with the main body of his command, and, with an eye and judgment equal to any emergency, ordered the position on the Federal left carried, which order was promptly and gallantly executed by his ever-willing and resolute Tennesseans and with their characteristic impetuosity and dash, which nothing in blue withstood that day. I sat upon my horse and stared with boyish wonderment at what appeared an apparition, the most inspiring personage my eyes had ever beheld. It was General Forrest superbly mounted upon a spirited animal, which seemed to catch the inspiration of its master as he led his battalions by our position rightward toward the Federal left ; and soon we heard heavy firing in that direction, accompanied by the Rebel yell, which transmitted the result to those sturdy soldiers where we were, and they in turn announced its significance to us. At that moment Captain Gurley ordered our line forward, which, coming within the zone of the Federal artillery fire, was quickly dismounted and advanced in. splendid style. The 7th Tennessee Federal Cavalry, commanded by Lieut. Col. Isaac R. Hawkins, occupied the Federal left, in what was considered a strong position ; but when the Tennessee Confederates advanced toward them, their line vanished like vapor, and thus the position occupied by Colonel Ingersoll with the nth Illinois Cavalry, dismounted; was flanked and enfiladed, and he and most of his officers and men captured, together with all his artillery, small arms, and ammunition. The Federal artillerists, commanded by Lieut. John W. H. McGuire, stood stoutly by their guns, alternating with shrapnel and canister; but so close was Gurley's line upon them that their missiles flew harmlessly overhead, and not until close quarters were reached did Gurley's line sustain any casualties, where, after a hand-to-hand encounter and an almost superhuman defense of their guns, the Federal artillerists yielded to numerical superiority, giving up their guns, and those not killed became prisoners. Lieutenant McGuire, after being exchanged, became captain of his battery. The artillery captured here consisted of two three-inch steel Rodman guns, belonging to Capt. Merideth H. Kidd's 14th Indiana Battery, and formed the nucleus for Morton's Battery, and used thence and effectively by General Forrest until the end in 1865.
Colonel Ingersoll was a brave and skillful officer; and had the Tennessee Federals stood well to their colors, General Forrest might have been defeated, for his armament was very ineffective, being a mixture of flintlock muskets, double-barrel shotguns, and Derringer pistols, and supplied with only a few rounds of ammunition. He was therefore in poor condition to encounter such formidable equipment as Ingersoll's men possessed. Colonel Hawkins was in no manner responsible for the bad conduct of his regiment on this or any other occasion. He was a brave, conscientious, though indulgent officer, and no truer man to his government or to his friends ever donned the Federal uniform. Colonel Ingersoll was captured by Capt. Frank B. Gurley, of the 4th Alabama Cavalry, who, when commanded by Captain Gurley to surrender, said rather nonchalantly : "Is this your Southern Confederacy for which I have so diligently searched?" Being assured that it was, Colonel Ingersoll re- plied somewhat facetiously : "Then I am your guest until the wheels of the gnat Cartel are put in motion." He then added : "Here are the Illinoisans ; the Tennesseans have in- gloriously fled." Never in all General Forrest's captures—and they were many—did he make such timely acquisitions in war material as here or capture a foe possessed of so much wit and humor.
How do you think this WW1 German felt about being armed with a musket originally made in the 1770's? (then modified to cartridge a half century later)
M1777/67, M1841/53/67, M1853/67 and M1873 Belgian Albini-Braendlin
I know more about the Civil War rifle situation than the pistol. And I know more about the service swords than the pistol. The thing is, the North was scrambling for arms, and it was in competition with the South for surplus arms in Europe. All sorts of junk came back from Europe and was issued till American factories got their production lines going. Southerners had it worse. After the battle of Kernstown, the 7th Virginia Cavalry Commander, Col Turner Ashby wrote in a letter to Sec of War Judah Benjamin that one of his men rode bare back and his only weapon was a club! From what I have read, the South got most of its weapons from battlefield capture. Arsenals in the South were raided, but most of the arms there were old and obsolete. Some stuff came through the blockage. No doubt early on, a lot of cavalry troopers, both North and South were armed with single shot pistols. And glad to have one, instead of a club!
I do know there were lots of pistol models and makes, and the only "logical" conclusion is, the ones that were the made the most, were the ones that were issued the most. But when, where, and to whom, I don't know who has that data.
Some might find these stories amusing
Confederate Veteran Vol 15
COMBAT AT LOCKRIDGE'S MILL.
A most thrilling account is given of the hand-to-hand combat between Colonel Ballentine and a Federal officer—perhaps the Major Hoffman referred to above. Ballentine, then captain, with his command, was pursuing Federals on retreat, and, presenting his pistol, he demanded that the Federal officer surrender. That officer, with saber in hand, smiled at the Confederate and asked him to put up his pistol and he would fight him. Ballentine saw that his antagonist was a gentleman and realized that he was brave, so the challenge was accepted. Placing his pistol in its holster, Captain Ballentine spurred his horse and dashed to the side of the Federal, who was ready and skillfully warded off the blade. Captain Ballentine soon realized that the Federal was a better swordsman, but that he had the better horse. They fought along the road for a great distance. At one vicious stroke by the enemy Ballentine's soft hat was shorn of its brim; then he made a desperate and fatal thrust, piercing the side of the brave Federal officer, who surrendered.
Before the Federal officer died he expressed admiration for the man who slew him, and presented him with his horse. Soon afterwards Captain Ballentine was promoted to colonel and to the command of the 2nd Mississippi Cavalry
FORREST'S CAPTURE OF COL. R. G. INGERSOLL. BY COL. V. Y. COOK, NEWPORT, ARK. Perhaps a few words about Genera] Forrest's West Tennessee campaign in the winter of 1862 and the capture of Col. Robert G. Ingersoll would be of interest to the Veteran. The incidents attending these events occurred forty-four years ago, and are now recounted without data. I was a boy at the time, just past my fourteenth birthday, and had not then joined the army; but was on a runaway from home, with a few choice associates for that purpose, trying to get South through the Federal lines, being closely followed by my father, who, while in perfect accord with the Southern cause, objected to my entering its army on account of youth. Thus on the 18th of December, 1862, we were caught almost in the very jaws of the two hostile forces. Having quit the main road for a few miles to avoid a collision with a Federal cavalry column moving southward, upon coming into the road again we gladly, though unexpectedly, met General For[1]rest's advance, composed of four companies of Russell's 4th Alabama Cavalry, commanded by Capt. Frank B. Gurley, then near Lexington, in West Tennessee, and which in a very few minutes thereafter encountered the 3d Battalion of the 5th Ohio Cavalry, some three hundred strong, commanded by Capt. James C. Harrison, which command Captain Gurley charged and drove rearward at a furious gait until the eastern limits of Lexington were reached, making many captures. There strong epaulements had been hastily erected for the Federal artillery, with dismounted cavalry on each flank and in support. Here Captain Gurley formed for battle and paused for alignment, at which juncture General Forrest arrived with the main body of his command, and, with an eye and judgment equal to any emergency, ordered the position on the Federal left carried, which order was promptly and gallantly executed by his ever-willing and resolute Tennesseans and with their characteristic impetuosity and dash, which nothing in blue withstood that day. I sat upon my horse and stared with boyish wonderment at what appeared an apparition, the most inspiring personage my eyes had ever beheld. It was General Forrest superbly mounted upon a spirited animal, which seemed to catch the inspiration of its master as he led his battalions by our position rightward toward the Federal left ; and soon we heard heavy firing in that direction, accompanied by the Rebel yell, which transmitted the result to those sturdy soldiers where we were, and they in turn announced its significance to us. At that moment Captain Gurley ordered our line forward, which, coming within the zone of the Federal artillery fire, was quickly dismounted and advanced in. splendid style. The 7th Tennessee Federal Cavalry, commanded by Lieut. Col. Isaac R. Hawkins, occupied the Federal left, in what was considered a strong position ; but when the Tennessee Confederates advanced toward them, their line vanished like vapor, and thus the position occupied by Colonel Ingersoll with the nth Illinois Cavalry, dismounted; was flanked and enfiladed, and he and most of his officers and men captured, together with all his artillery, small arms, and ammunition. The Federal artillerists, commanded by Lieut. John W. H. McGuire, stood stoutly by their guns, alternating with shrapnel and canister; but so close was Gurley's line upon them that their missiles flew harmlessly overhead, and not until close quarters were reached did Gurley's line sustain any casualties, where, after a hand-to-hand encounter and an almost superhuman defense of their guns, the Federal artillerists yielded to numerical superiority, giving up their guns, and those not killed became prisoners. Lieutenant McGuire, after being exchanged, became captain of his battery. The artillery captured here consisted of two three-inch steel Rodman guns, belonging to Capt. Merideth H. Kidd's 14th Indiana Battery, and formed the nucleus for Morton's Battery, and used thence and effectively by General Forrest until the end in 1865.
Colonel Ingersoll was a brave and skillful officer; and had the Tennessee Federals stood well to their colors, General Forrest might have been defeated, for his armament was very ineffective, being a mixture of flintlock muskets, double-barrel shotguns, and Derringer pistols, and supplied with only a few rounds of ammunition. He was therefore in poor condition to encounter such formidable equipment as Ingersoll's men possessed. Colonel Hawkins was in no manner responsible for the bad conduct of his regiment on this or any other occasion. He was a brave, conscientious, though indulgent officer, and no truer man to his government or to his friends ever donned the Federal uniform. Colonel Ingersoll was captured by Capt. Frank B. Gurley, of the 4th Alabama Cavalry, who, when commanded by Captain Gurley to surrender, said rather nonchalantly : "Is this your Southern Confederacy for which I have so diligently searched?" Being assured that it was, Colonel Ingersoll re- plied somewhat facetiously : "Then I am your guest until the wheels of the gnat Cartel are put in motion." He then added : "Here are the Illinoisans ; the Tennesseans have in- gloriously fled." Never in all General Forrest's captures—and they were many—did he make such timely acquisitions in war material as here or capture a foe possessed of so much wit and humor.
Last edited:
armoredman
Member
That is an interesting read, thank you.
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If you were a soldier, you could buy or bring your own, but if you didn't want to spend the money, you accepted what the government issued (or what you captured).
I haven't read enough cavalry accounts to be knowledgeable on this subject matter.
I haven't read enough cavalry accounts to be knowledgeable on this subject matter.
hawg
Member
In the union army officers could bring or buy their own. Infantry soldiers didn't use sidearms and probably wouldn't carry them if they did. I read in a history book a long time ago that in the beginning some infantry solders were issued sidearms but sent them home or tossed them on side of the road. A foot soldier wasn't going to carry any more weight than he had to. many of them even managed to "lose" their bayonets. The confederates used whatever they could get their hands on. A lot of confederate cavalry ditched their sabers in favor of shotguns.
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I read a lot of accounts and it was not unknown fo infantryman to discard all useless impediments along the march. Bowie knives, pistols were among them. Would have been neat to follow them in a Sutler's wagon to recover the loot for resale.
I've been to reenactments where the "soldiers" cook on cast iron or dutch ovens. Unless the soldier stole it, they didn't have such things. Too heavy. A canteen half was often used as a frying pan. A deep cup for boiling coffee or hard tack and pork belly. The key was to keep things light.
I've been to reenactments where the "soldiers" cook on cast iron or dutch ovens. Unless the soldier stole it, they didn't have such things. Too heavy. A canteen half was often used as a frying pan. A deep cup for boiling coffee or hard tack and pork belly. The key was to keep things light.
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Slamfire - I've been trying to verify whether the Model 71/84 was issued to the Volksturm in the waning days of the ten year Thousand Year Reich. I've never read an account or saw proof.
I have read of one officer who heard a gunshot that he was unfamiliar with. He investigated and found a GI who had disarmed an old German man who had fired his muzzle loading jager at him. The GI disarmed the German, smashed the rifle (waaaaaah! waaaaaah!) and told the German to go home.
I have read of one officer who heard a gunshot that he was unfamiliar with. He investigated and found a GI who had disarmed an old German man who had fired his muzzle loading jager at him. The GI disarmed the German, smashed the rifle (waaaaaah! waaaaaah!) and told the German to go home.
Ugly Sauce
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Certainly a soldier might have a "preference", but not much of a choice. I think most of the side-arms were very serviceable, and served their purpose, with some exceptions.
I think any of us who own replicas of both Colts and Remingtons would not be too upset to carry one or the other. "Not enough difference, to make a difference".
I would be happy with either one, and wouldn't waste any time wishing I had the other. Might not be happy with one of the 1,350 "Other foreign" pistols. !!!
I think any of us who own replicas of both Colts and Remingtons would not be too upset to carry one or the other. "Not enough difference, to make a difference".
I would be happy with either one, and wouldn't waste any time wishing I had the other. Might not be happy with one of the 1,350 "Other foreign" pistols. !!!
hawg
Member
General J.E.B. Stuart carried a LeMat as did general G.T Beauregard. Stonewall Jackson carried a Beaumont-Adams for awhile but gave it up in favor of a Lefaucheux pinfire.
Gator Weiss
Member
Preferred revolvers may have been dependent on which trooper was asked. Forrest preferred double barrelled short shotguns. Stewart liked Lemat 9-shooter with its central shotgun barrell. Many units got nothing but a carbine. TX rangers seemed to like 1847 Walkers carried in 4 saddle holsters / 4 to a man. 1851 Navy was popular because it felt good in the hand and was the basic pattern for most open tops. Officers sometimes bought their own of what was available. Enlisted were low-paid and made do with what they could get. Some units were issued and then the issued guns were taken away again and reallocated. Lemat was expensive and scarce and probably most effective for the time.
Top generals like Jackson and Stuart were known for receiving lots of gifts from wealthy citizens and gifting a fancy handgun wouldn't have been unusual. It's doubtful that either Jackson or Stuart spent much time considering which handgun would be the most suitable for battle. Stuart at least probably wanted a fancy pistol to go with his fancy image.
Ugly Sauce
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Truth to that, I know that a couple of the LeMats were gifts to Southern Generals. I don't know whether the LeMat performed well in the field, but one would certainly serve as a distinctive general's sidearm, as generals don't "generally" engage in hand to hand combat often, or at all. How they (the LeMat) actually performed in combat I have no idea. I know the replicas sometimes have issues, but again, no idea of how the originals performed.
Anyhow, when I said I would not be excited over one of the foreign pistols, I was not thinking of any quality arm, the British and French made some nice ones for sure, was thinking more of something coming out of a village mom and pop shop in Spain in mind.
