Washingtonstate: Firearms Rights Restoration ( After involuntary commitment)

[KennyTHX]

So after a long wait I got my response back from the FBI/DOJ concerning my denial. As I eventually suspected it's because of a little stay I had in the local psych ward.

The thing that's bugging me is that I was supposed to be informed orally and in writing that I no longer have firearms rights, and I never was. The FBI/DOJ letter simply told me which agency held the record which they denied for...

Does anyone know what the next step is? The agency holding the record is the Washington State Patrol. I'm not sure if I should just write them a letter asking to explain it, or go get an attorney that specializes in restoring rights. The only problem is most of those seem to be oriented toward restoring the rights of criminals.

Does anyone know how to get started in appealing this in Washington state?

 

[bikemutt]

Try this guy, he knows his stuff: http://www.washrecord.com/

 

[bikemutt]

See also: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.047

Getting your right to possess is possible it seems, it may be hard work, and not free, but that's always better than NO. Good luck.

 

[KennyTHX]

I contacted Paul Ferris and asked him about it. This was the reply...

If you were involuntarily committed pursuant to a court order, there is no procedure for removing your federal firearm disability. Although there is a process under RCW 9.41.047 for restoring the right to possess firearms lost as a result of commitment, the process has not been approved by the federal government as required under the NICS Improvement Act.

Even if you obtained a court order restoring gun rights, you would still be prohibited under federal law.

I am not aware of any plans by the state attorney general's office to apply for approval. If you have questions on this issue, that is the agency where your inquiry should be made.

So I'm not sure what to make of this. Apparently I'm now federally prohibited, but can get my right to possess firearms in Washington state restored? I'm guess this just means that I can no longer purchase through an FFL or pass the NICS background check?

In any case, I guess the next step is contacting the Washington State Patrol and the attorney general's office to figure out if there's any other thing that can be done. Perhaps the record can still be expunged so that the federal disability would be removed that way?

I'm surprised by the utter lack of information on the subject.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You might want to ask Paul Ferris exactly what 27 CFR 478.143 means, then:
Printed page 70:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

§ 478.144 Relief from disabilities under
the Act.

(a) Any person may make application
for relief from the disabilities under section
922 (g) and (n) of the Act (see § 478.32).

(b) An application for such relief shall
be filed, in triplicate, with the Director. It
shall include the information required by
this section and such other supporting
data as the Director and the applicant
deem appropriate.

(c) Any record or document of a court
or other government entity or official required
by this paragraph to be furnished
by an applicant in support of an application
for relief shall be certified by the court
or other government entity or official as a
true copy. An application shall include:

(5) In the case of an applicant who
has been adjudicated a mental defective
or committed to a mental institution,
a copy of the order of a court, board,
commission, or other lawful authority
that made the adjudication or ordered
the commitment, any petition that
sought to have the applicant so adjudicated
or committed, any medical records
reflecting the reasons for
commitment and diagnoses of the applicant,
and any court order or finding of
a court, board, commission, or other
lawful authority showing the applicant's
discharge from commitment, restoration
of mental competency and the restoration
of rights;

 

[KennyTHX]

Well, from what I've read about that, congress cut off funding to that program for any investigations into restoring rights in 1992.

That seems odd though, I thought I have heard of other people getting their firearm rights restored. Perhaps that was only at a state level?

Edit:

"Congress cut off funding for the relief from disabilities program in 1992.", Mr. Paul Ferris

So... Should I take his word for it just since he's an attorney? Or am I just out of luck...

 

[NOLAEMT]

You would need a court to expunge your involuntary commitment and restore your 2nd ammendment rights. That would probably require a psych evaluation, lawyers, etc.

Untill that happens you cannot purchase a firearm from ANYONE, FFL or private person, in fact I don't think you can even have access to firearms, as in, if others in the house have them, they must be locked up, etc.

 

[bikemutt]

So... Should I take his word for it just since he's an attorney? Or am I just out of luck...

This is a tough one. The way it appears, their could be a way to have the federal prohibition removed by having the state prohibition removed, but you just can't get there from here because the state procedure and it's results have not been approved by the feds.

I suppose this could be considered judicial disenfranchisement, perhaps because the affected constituency has been silent, or at least quiet on the subject.

With so little known, a second opinion may not be a bad idea.

 

[NavyLCDR]

So... Should I take his word for it just since he's an attorney? Or am I just out of luck...

It's probably true. I didn't know about that. The lawsuit it would take to force the government to recognize your right to carry a firearm is probably a few $100,000's more than you can afford.

You are probably SOL.

Or, you could get your rights restored at the state level, buy all your firearms privately, and rely upon the 2nd Amendment to overturn any Federal convictions.

 

[bikemutt]

Consider spending some time reviewing what your situation might be if you lived in another state; any of them have a federally approved procedure for removing this impairment?

It may not be directly helpful per se, but it may be instructive and suggest a framework for how to proceed.

 

[DMF]

If you were involuntarily committed pursuant to a court order, there is no procedure for removing your federal firearm disability. Although there is a process under RCW 9.41.047 for restoring the right to possess firearms lost as a result of commitment, the process has not been approved by the federal government as required under the NICS Improvement Act.

Even if you obtained a court order restoring gun rights, you would still be prohibited under federal law.

I am not aware of any plans by the state attorney general's office to apply for approval. If you have questions on this issue, that is the agency where your inquiry should be made.

Although Ferris is a lawyer, that doesn't guarantee he is correct. His website does not mention firearms disability due to being adjudicated a mental defective, so it's possible he doesn't deal with that issue much, and might be wrong.

IMO, you should write ATF and ask for an opinion on the matter.

 

[bikemutt]

I sent you a Private Message with the name and contact information of another lawyer who specializes in the field of gun rights and related matters. Good luck.

 

[NavyLCDR]

IMO, you should write ATF and ask for an opinion on the matter.

I second that.

 

[hermannr]

Kenny, sent PM

For anyone else: The WA state law changed in 2005.

Prior to 2005 there was no requirement to tell you to obtain voluntary help, or that because if you were involuntarily committed, you would loose you CPL and your right to bear arms. Yes, the wording says "may not possess", just as if you were a convicted felon. (I did this leg work for someone near and dear to me as Navy already knows)

It is my understanding (as explained to me by the lawyer for the state judiciay committee): the state changed the law so it would parallel the equivilent federal statute, they also provided a means to relieve the disability.

Also, it is my understanding (per same lawyer) that when you are cleared by the court, the court MUST notify NCIS, and you should be good to go as if it never happened. That is, you would be eligable for a CPL and to purchase and possess.