Ivy Mike
Member
I'm sorry, were you describing Fast and Furious?
We have gun laws.....they just need to be enforced.
- Thread starter Aim1
- Start date
- Status
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Nope. Can't claim any such trend for Chicago. They're all over the place.
At best, you can say those three preceding years were a drop from a previous peak in 2016. They're close to the numbers from 2012 to 2015.
2021: 2,791 shot; 2,314 wounded; 477 killed. (Total homicides, 503)
2020: 4 174 shot; 3,455 wounded; 719 killed. (Total homicides, 792)
2019: 2,754 shot; 2,292 wounded; 463 killed. (Total homicides, 519)
2018: 2,962 shot; 2,465 wounded; 497 killed. (Total homicides, 592)
2017: 3,561 shot; 2,935 wounded; 626 killed. (Total homicides, 685)
2016: 4,380 shot; 3,658 wounded; 722 killed. (Total homicides, 808)
2015: 2,996 shot; 2,546 wounded; 450 killed. (Total homicides, 513)
2014: 2,621 shot; 2,230 wounded; 321 killed. (Total homicides, 464)
2013: 2,185 shot; 1,810 wounded; 375 killed. (Total homicides, 455)
2012: 441 killed. (Total homicides, 514)
(I pulled this data from heyjackass dot com. Any transcription errors are mine. 2021 data current as of this posting.)
Ignition Override
Member
As for physical punishments... the "caning" in Singapore:
A couple of jumpseat passengers on our domestic trips had been pilots flying the 747 or possibly the DC-10 on a few trips (via "Camp Narita") to Singapore in the 90's.
They told us that it isn't just a stick.
It's a long and heavy cane, which inflicts terrible injuries, and which they told us can turn fatal. Don't be misled by rumors.
Anyway -- now back to our mostly lax gun laws and "enforcement".
A couple of jumpseat passengers on our domestic trips had been pilots flying the 747 or possibly the DC-10 on a few trips (via "Camp Narita") to Singapore in the 90's.
They told us that it isn't just a stick.
It's a long and heavy cane, which inflicts terrible injuries, and which they told us can turn fatal. Don't be misled by rumors.
Anyway -- now back to our mostly lax gun laws and "enforcement".
danez71
Member
Your link doesn't have almost 2 years of the most recent data.
Talk about cherry picking..... sheesh.
Deanimator
Member
We have gun laws... and they need to be repealed.
Punishment for crimes of bodily injury and grave harm to the public, especially the most defenseless (think elderly, children, those unable to defend themselves ex: wheelchair) FIRST PRIORITY.
MAXIMUM SENTENCES.
The rest of the little ducks would fall into step and that right quick.
Conversely, minor felony offenses, get some reform going, an appropriate WAITING PERIOD after incarceration and a path to restoring rights (including firearms) should commence.
Carrot-and-stick has become cotton candy and tickle feather IMHO.
MAXIMUM SENTENCES.
The rest of the little ducks would fall into step and that right quick.
Conversely, minor felony offenses, get some reform going, an appropriate WAITING PERIOD after incarceration and a path to restoring rights (including firearms) should commence.
Carrot-and-stick has become cotton candy and tickle feather IMHO.
Heck of a moral compass ya got there....!
brutus51
Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,367
Unfortunately this has become the American way, justice has been replaced by profit.
Am I wrong? How many millions of folks speed even though it is against the law? Ever ride past a school w a firearm in your vehicle? How many folks drink and drive and not get caught until they wreck potentially killing others? Meet a lady that got caught with 480 grams of meth and spent zero time in prison. Know why? Because of a damn good lawyer! With a $100,000 retainer.
Deanimator
Member
- Ruby Ridge
- Waco
- Fast & Furious
what I read about the straw purchase from the French shooting seemed pretty weak. It didn't sound like it reached the legal or ethical definition of a straw purchase, but that was from one news channel's story, not the charging documents. But if so, I could see the low bond.
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
The (in)famous Terry's Theory on crime control is to let anyone --anyone --have a gun who wants one.
Then let natural selection work its magic until there's only one crime kingpin left. Then go after him for tax evasion.
Terry, 230RN
Last edited:
Jackalope 1
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2021
- Messages
- 206
You sir do not live in the State of Washington, from the time I turned 21 a CWP cost $1.00 valid for 1 year remained the status quo for 40+ years, then the OTHER PARTY came in control, when I renewed my CWP, oh WOW, it now cost $70.00+, valid for 5 years, renewal $55.00 valid for 5 years, THEN renewal THIS time I-1639 was passed and now in FORCE, known as the " BILLIONAIRES LAW " had to go thru whole application process. Use to be buy a firearm, show gun store your CWP fill out 4473, was approved, pick up firearm, leave lgs. NOW F.O. 4473, wait 10 days P.U. your shooter. Allow someone to hold your gun, CLASS #1 FELONY for both of you. Must have any weapon under lockdown if it isn't any person gains possession you are now subject to 10 years in prison & $250,000 fine. Did it LOWER crime rate??? Do sheep go to HARVARD??? Crime RATE increased 200%!!!!!
Deanimator
Member
I'm from Chicago.
I'm probably not allowed to discuss the REAL reasons for the third world state of Chicago with any specificity, but suffice to say, the availability of ANY type of firearm, with or without a license, to a non-criminal, has NOTHING to do with it.
The rule of law and the rights of man are as irrelevant to the system in Chicago as they are in Somalia or Libya. My owning an AR-15... or the Paris gun isn't going to change that one iota.
Ivy Mike
Member
The FBI uniform crime reports are always 2 years behind the current year. 2020 will be out next year. This is because the reports take a while to put together and track down both good and bad info. A lot of the time is devoted to clearance rates for LEAs, and Chicago is notably bad about this. Not that the efficiency of the CPD would stop people from murdering each other but even going back a ways, the Chicago Police are totally overwhelmed. But this is why the current numbers are not in my link. It's actually better for the integrity of the data and making determinations about trends.
Doing an average and throwing out the two years that have the highest and lowest numbers, we arrive at 506 killed per year. Put a trend line on that graph and you'll see that's a pretty good mean number. You can do some other adjustments by grouping the numbers together by hundreds and curving for that, but I don't think that's all that important to the point.
The point being that strict gun laws and relaxed gun laws in Chicago, don't actually do all that much to change the murder rate. We're still averaging 500+ a year whether you ban handguns or allow people to carry them concealed.
Ivy Mike
Member
I would agree with the first part of your post. Gun laws in Chicago don't make a hell of a lot of difference.
Ivy Mike
Member
Nope. I live in Nevada where we have very loose gun laws and Las Vegas consistently rates right up with the rest of the big cities in terms of violent and property crime.
Of course, Vegas has been among the fastest growing metro areas for 25+ years at this point and that generally brings more crime. Big cities have lots of people and generally have lots of crime. For the same reasons I don't think Chicago's gun laws (or their relaxation) has anything to do with their murder rate, I don't think Washington's gun laws (or tightening thereof) has anything to do with its crime rate.
And when you say crime rate, is that violent crime or property crime? Would the lack of firearms actually make any difference? Was there actually a decrease in the number of firearms in Washington state? Or, with the population growth Washington has seen, do you actually have more guns per capita now?
danez71
Member
Kind of, but not really. 1 year would be more accurate to say and even then, thats ignoring the fact they release 1/2 year data.
Here's some 2020 FBI data a year straight from the FBI websitehttps://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...minary-uniform-crime-report-january-june-2020
..... is done to massage data to fit a conclusion.
Fixed that for you
Ivy Mike
Member
Kind of, but not really. 1 year would be more accurate to say and even then, thats ignoring the fact they release 1/2 year data.
Here's some 2020 FBI data a year straight from the FBI websitehttps://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...minary-uniform-crime-report-january-june-2020
..... is done to massage data to fit a conclusion.
Fixed that for you
Yes really. Go look up the Uniform Crime Reports. They're always 2 years out. The FBI mentions that somewhere and it's basically the amount of time it takes to verify data and prepare the reports.
Go ahead and add the two outliers I tossed out and see what you get.
In fact, I'll do it for you; it's 509.1 killed per year compared to the 506 I got earlier. Less than a 1% difference. Do you understand why you toss outliers in a data set? For our purposes, it's really not that important but it helps to avoid skewing data with a few large deviations that don't really represent the pattern, but have the potential to skew the results. Not really a lot of massaging to it.
And it should be noted that you're not comparing full years, you're comparing the first six months. For all we know, Chicago could have a peaceful fall and winter and we'd see an overall drop. That's why you use complete data sets.
but if you like, add in the extra data and come up with your own data to post here. But something tells me you're still going to fall right around the 500-510 killed per year as an average.
and in case anyone is wondering how I got my numbers, I just used the numbers posted above by RetiredUSNChief. I took an average of the number killed per year (as opposed to total homicides) and got 509.1 with all the numbers. I got 506 by throwing out the highest and the lowest year and averaging the rest.
Deanimator
Member
And maybe Xi Jin Ping will disband the Chinese Communist Party and the Public Security Bureau, join the Libertarian Party and open a head shop.
Of course discussing murders in Chicago without discussing SHOOTINGS as a phenomenon in itself is as fatuous as the claim that there was no famine in the Ukraine in 1932, but there were a lot of deaths "due to diseases of malnutrition".
Gang members in Chicago are NOTORIOUSLY bad shots. Ineptitude doesn't disprove intent. Maybe instead of there being a "peaceful fall and winter", the Latin Kings and Disciples will hit the Forest Preserves for some needed target practice to bring their "A game".
Ivy Mike
Member
I was just trying to give some idea of the thinking and the math behind my post. I have no illusions that Chicago will suddenly become a peaceful metropolis or that Xi Jinping will give up his authoritarian control.
I like that you point out the shootings compared to deaths. Only about a third of all gunshot wounds end up being fatal in a given year. That leaves the majority of them as non-fatal and probably underrepresented when we have discussions about gun violence in America.
regardless, I wasn't trying to get into a hair splitting contest.
danez71
Member
2019 report was released Dec 2020. As I said, one year, not two.
If it took 2 yrs like you keep saying, the link YOU provided wouldn't show 2019 data until the end of 2021.
https://www.ncsbi.gov/Services/SBI-Statistics/SBI-Uniform-Crime-Reports/2019-Annual-Summary.aspx
Where do they say that?
If that was true, how did 2019 data get published in Dec 2020?
Ivy Mike
Member
ok fine, you win the hair splitting contest. Congratulations on your mastery of the minutiae.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
