There's a video on youtube of Clint Smith showing how to use a shotgun/flashlight to clear a house. He had some great points in it. One of them being that you shouldn't worry about the flashlight giving away your position because you should be yelling commands/warnings the entire time.
weapon-mounted flashlights vs handheld flashlights w/ shotgun?
- Thread starter zhyla
- Start date
- Status
chudykGT
Member
Streamlight makes a nice bright LITTLE light, and light/laser combo for use on pistols etc. They have a cheap, but seemingly effective (don't have it on my gun) mount of the 870 that attaches it just forward of the nut that holds the magazine spring in the mag tube. Horrendously expensive in my mind, but I am assuming it is going to handle at least pistol recoil.
And again, as somebody said earlier, if you have the light, you DON'T have to use it. But if its on the weapon you always free up that extra hand.
And again, as somebody said earlier, if you have the light, you DON'T have to use it. But if its on the weapon you always free up that extra hand.
chudykGT
Member
I think i must purchase said Clint Smith videos.
Going back to the question, I've handled a couple rail fore ends and found them cumbersome. As I have an extended magazine tube I wanted to shore up I picked up a tri-rail that screws in between the barrel and the magazine tube, capturing both. It holds the magazine tube in place *and* gives me a place to put the light. This would occlude a bead sight if my shotgun had one, so it's a poor idea for a trap or hunting weapon, but at home defense ranges the difference of a couple degrees down isn't going to change my point of impact much. I suppose if I feel like hanging more crap off the front of the weapon I could always turn the rail upside down and throw a red dot up there, but I just can't think of a reason why I'd need to be more precise at medium ranges in my urban environment. Anyone 50y away from me is someone I can escape.
Titan6
member
Preferred lighting options when checking the house:
1. Light switch for overhead light (if not working go to 2)
2. Weapon mounted green light laser (if not working go to 3)
3. Weapon Mounted flashlight
If I heard several voices I might not turn on the light and might hide and call the police right away instead. OF course depending upon the situation I might do anything different.
If you have a weapon mounted anything..... you must train with it just as you do your weapon. Otherwise it becomes a liability.
1. Light switch for overhead light (if not working go to 2)
2. Weapon mounted green light laser (if not working go to 3)
3. Weapon Mounted flashlight
If I heard several voices I might not turn on the light and might hide and call the police right away instead. OF course depending upon the situation I might do anything different.
If you have a weapon mounted anything..... you must train with it just as you do your weapon. Otherwise it becomes a liability.
BilgeButter
Member
Consider that your depth perception isn't so hot with a headlamp, the light source being so near to your line of sight. Short shadows.
I'll be giving this a try on my 870 tac for light mounting, as I don't care for the factory clamp and am not using the sling swivel: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=50934/sku/BCTXX1200_-_BARREL_CLAMP_WITH_TAC_RAIL/Magazine_Extension_Clamp_w/Tactical_Rail
Last edited:
Titan6
member
A good green light laser provides more than ample illumination indoors at night. The only exception might be if your walls are painted a very dark color or very dark wood paneling.
When the beam strikes a white wall for example the light disperses enough to illuminate even a relatively large room in dull green color. Your eyes will adjust to this more quickly than a sudden "white" light. This has the other advantage of not blowing out your night vision as a white flashlight or overhead light will. So if you had to transition from a backyard to the weird noise in your unlighted shed you will have better night vision than if you were just handling your "white" light flashlight.
Green light lasers also offer the advantage that at the likely range of an indoor self defense scenario they tend to hold zero and be quite accurate. Because they are so much brighter than red light lasers you don't have to "look for" the dot to aim, you will always see it if you are looking down your barrel or even if you are looking in the general direction, it is near impossible to miss at night and not hard to see in the day time.
There are two drawbacks that I know of:
- Outdoors at night they do not provide illumination. This is partly why I have both. If there is a problem at night, outside however, I will likely check out it first with the night vision cameras from inside and then get the 2MCP spotlight out.
- They telegraph your position because the beam is visible. Any light source will do this at night. If you are not in combat this is not really relevant though.
When the beam strikes a white wall for example the light disperses enough to illuminate even a relatively large room in dull green color. Your eyes will adjust to this more quickly than a sudden "white" light. This has the other advantage of not blowing out your night vision as a white flashlight or overhead light will. So if you had to transition from a backyard to the weird noise in your unlighted shed you will have better night vision than if you were just handling your "white" light flashlight.
Green light lasers also offer the advantage that at the likely range of an indoor self defense scenario they tend to hold zero and be quite accurate. Because they are so much brighter than red light lasers you don't have to "look for" the dot to aim, you will always see it if you are looking down your barrel or even if you are looking in the general direction, it is near impossible to miss at night and not hard to see in the day time.
There are two drawbacks that I know of:
- Outdoors at night they do not provide illumination. This is partly why I have both. If there is a problem at night, outside however, I will likely check out it first with the night vision cameras from inside and then get the 2MCP spotlight out.
- They telegraph your position because the beam is visible. Any light source will do this at night. If you are not in combat this is not really relevant though.
NoAlibi
Member
I don't "see" the difference
Considering that a shotgun mounted light is even more in your line of sight why would a headlamp, done properly, be worse?
Considering that a shotgun mounted light is even more in your line of sight why would a headlamp, done properly, be worse?
DougW
Member
Light on my shotgun for me:
Surefire mount with Scorpion light.
Surefire mount with Scorpion light.
Forget green lasers. For a home defence, tactical shotgun, a bright white light is critical. Integrated forearm is preferable, but a barrel mounted 6P surefire or similar will work equally as well. With a shotgun, you will want both hands on the gun. For a standard pump action, a pressure tailcap is a good solution. ESPECIALLY in a home defense situation, target ID is CRITICAL. A white light is part target illumination, and part to blind the target. In a dark house, a surefire in a targets general direction will dazzle him enough to gain a decisive advantage. You want a light you can turn on and off immediately. Forget an led headlamp, as stated above its a walking bullseye. You want to illuminate, ID, turn the light off, and move. In a room size engagement...with a shotgun...a visible laser is silly. While a 12 or 20 ga pattern at 10 feet or less can be measured in mere inches, the laser unnecessarially complicates things. KISS get a light, make sure your target is not a family member, and live to fight another day.
To add to the above, this is the Gunsite Tactical Shotgun Training Video, 7 parts in total:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMHR0VGXwG0
And a well qualified expert opinion on tactical use of white light:
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/tactical-use-of-white-light/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMHR0VGXwG0
And a well qualified expert opinion on tactical use of white light:
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/tactical-use-of-white-light/
Titan6
member
Hugh, not surprisingly a green light laser will do a much better job of dazzling an intruder than just about any white light.
I am not so sure about the strategy of darkening a room after clearing it. I would want to leave that lit.
I am not so sure about the strategy of darkening a room after clearing it. I would want to leave that lit.
Ive had experience with both white light and green lasers. While green lasers can be disorienting, they must be aimed more directly at a persons eyes, while white light can be aimed near. The good quality green lasers are so bright, that the beam is easily traced back to the source. I can see the advantave of a light/laser combo, but would not want to rely on a laser alone. Ive had the opportunity to do low-light with sims, and you learn a lot about light and light discipline. If you dont have those, you can do the same with inexpensive airsoft pistols, or even just a dark house, a couple of bright compact lights, and do a rudimentary flashlight "tag". Its a skill set that needs to be practiced to be understood.
If you are using a very bright white light and you turn it on to ID something, then turn it off, you will have lost any night vision you had. Also, shouldn't the intruder know exactly where you are in the house, since you've been yelling commands and warnings the entire time?
I agree with Hush, I wouldn't expect a laser to be disorienting to an intruder. Slim chances of landing the beam on his pupils.
You know what would be cool? Not practical or a good idea, just interesting... a number of lasers that form a cone that approximates your shot spread.
You know what would be cool? Not practical or a good idea, just interesting... a number of lasers that form a cone that approximates your shot spread.
- Status