Weight or Volume?

[johnmcl]

A Springfield 1863 reproduction has found its way to my home. I'm reading that an authentic load is a 58 cal Minie ball over 60 grains of black powder.

I notice my BP substitute, Pyrodex, can be easily measured to 60 grains in weight, but appears to be 90 grains in volume! Hence the question, do I measure by weight or volume?

Standing by,

 

[desmobob]

Volume! Set your volume powder measure to throw 60gr. of real black powder, and then use that same setting for your black powder substitutes.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Ideally, you measure Real Black Powder by weight, but the subs are engineered to be roughly equal in volume to Real Black Powder but not necessarily in weight.
So when measuring Pyrodex (YUCK!) you should measure by volume using a measure based on a Real Black Powder volume.
after that you can determine what the actual weight of that load is with Pyrodex and measure by that weight after that if you are trying to get extremely repeatable loads.

 

[johnmcl]

I have it. So I'm going to use a graduated measure, like this one, to arrive at 60 gr in volume, and then I'm good?

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I'm not familiar with that particular measure, but it should keep you safe, and be close enough for most folks.

 

[woodnbow]

Measure pyrodex and all substitutes by volume.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Get yourself one of these. Set the sliding part to the number equal to the grain weight of Black Powder. This one happens to be set at 30 grains. Pour in the Pyrodex and close the funnel/lid to scrape off any excess. Dump it down the bore. If you want to weigh the charge of Pyrodex to get the actual grain weight you can do that.





There are several different versions of these available. Midway USA carries one like mine.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002220681?pid=431413

 

[arcticap]

I notice my BP substitute, Pyrodex, can be easily measured to 60 grains in weight, but appears to be 90 grains in volume! Hence the question, do I measure by weight or volume?

There are two Curtrich conversion charts for substitute powders.
One has the conversion weights for Pyrodex P and the other for Pyrodex RS.

2012 --->>> http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

2005 --->>> https://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet2005.htm

 

[American Finn]

So when measuring Pyrodex (YUCK!) you should measure by volume using a measure based on a Real Black Powder volume.
after that you can determine what the actual weight of that load is with Pyrodex and measure by that weight after that if you are trying to get extremely repeatable loads.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but Malachi is correct in saying "YUCK". I started out in muzzleloading using Pyrodex; I am sure there are others on this forum that have experienced the corrosion issues inherent to Pyrodex over black powder that I did; I don't know what it is with the formulation of Pyrodex but I found BP to be far easier to clean (relatively speaking) after a day of shooting. I am fortunate that I have a store in my area that sells BP; I strongly suggest johnmcl that if you have access to real BP to give it a try; I think you will like the results.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Even when comparing or measuring volume to volume, substitutes and real black will have different pressures, pressure curves, and velocities. Just be aware of that. Not that it would cause a problem with normal charges. Certainly not in the 60 grain range.

Congrats on the Springfield. I have a 1861, one of my favorite rifles. Let's see a picture of it.

 

[dave951]

First off, congratulations on the musket and wanting to live fire.

Now for the real info. Forget Pyrodex. The fouling is harder and more corrosive than real black. As for he real black, 2 or 3f will work. Absolute best powder is Swiss followed closely by Old EYNSFORD (a Goex product) then regular Goex. Get good caps RWS only. CCI reenactor caps are garbage. Use only a natural based lube like Crisco, tallow, or lard mixed with beeswax. If you’re really in northern VA, you’re not too far from a great source for caps and powder - Back Creek Gun Shop in Winchester. Jackie knows his stuff with these guns and can get you on the right path. He has a full time farm so leave a message and he’ll get back with you.

To shoot a musket with some hope of accuracy, forget utoob, make acquaintance with the North South Skirmish Association. We shoot Civil War arms live fire in competition. There’s lots of misinformation out there on these arms and what they’re capable of. My competition musket is a 2moa gun when I do my part.

 

[whughett]

IMO weighing black is a waste of time. A few grains more or less is basically inconsequential in a propellant that leaves the barrel as soot, smoke and flame.

 

[jmorris]

The substitutes do not weigh the same at identical volumes to black powder and people generally don’t cart a scale around in their possibles bag. So BP substitutes are equivalent in volume NOT weight. If the charge is intended to be 100 grains BP and you weigh out 100 grains, you will have an over charge of Pyrodex. If you are using a volume measure they will be the same.

If, for what ever reason, you want to weigh and are not using black powder but a substitute, you will need to convert. This chart shows equivalent weight charges vs volume.

 

[johnmcl]

Thank you all for the insights.

• The answer is clearly to measure by volume. My little graduated measuring tube will do the job until I find something better.
• I was given a half can of Pyrodex. I'll shoot that up and then move to one of the recommended powders.
• Crisco as a lubricant? Can you expand on that comment, please? I ask as my next step is to move into casting my own 58 cal M-balls.
• I've shot the gun, and and as a history buff and an experienced rifleman in other disciplines, I could not be happier.
• Here's the gun:

 

[Mike OTDP]

OK...Minie balls need to have the grease grooves on the outside of the bullet lubricated. You can use Crisco, but there are a vast number of other alternatives. One common lube is a 50/50 mix of beeswax and motor oil. I personally use a product known as Len's Lube, which is a beeswax/Mobil 1 mix, IIRC. Melt it in an old musket cap tin (NEVER throw away those old metal tins, they're useful), dip the bullets base-first, set them aside to cool.

And dave951 is absolutely right about contacting the N-SSA. They've got almost all of the expertise with the rifle-musket in the United States.

 

[dave951]

Big +1 for Lens Lube. It works great on my Rapine trashcan minies. The RCBS Hogdons however prefer lard/beeswax.

The bullet needs to be .001 under bore size. Do NOT fill the base with lube. It will upset the balance and weight distribution and can kill accuracy.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Nice looking rifle. I hunt with mine once in a while, but have never shot anything with it. Looks like the wood might have some interesting grain. ?

Now that tulip shaped ram-rod tip. Let me say, never, nor ever, succumb to the temptation to use that as a cleaning jag. (the tulip tip) It can get hopelessly stuck, like almost have to unbreech the rifle stuck. DO NOT ask me how I know that. I will neither confirm, or deny, that I ever did that. No one saw me. Can't prove it.