Well, Turn the lights off on Wa. State.

[silicosys4]

This was signed into law this last week.
Just made the rounds and talked with the LGS's.
Every single one of them will be either shutting down or is in hiatus with the anticipation of shutting down thanks to Wa.'s new anti gun laws pertaining to FFL's.
I can squeak through a few more transfers, it looks like, then its all done. The one Sportsmans Warehouse in the next town doesn't do transfers or sell used guns, so my gun buying days are over for the foreseeable future.

House Bill 2118, the "FFL-Killer" bill, was passed by the Senate with a vote of 28-21. The bill will now return to the House for concurrence due to an amendment adopted in the Senate. The onerous requirements of House Bill 2118 will likely put most Washington-based FFLs out of business because of the financial burden to comply. Any FFL that does more than $1,000 of sales per year must run annual background checks on their employees, carry $1 million liability insurance, install steel doors or bars at the business, and meet onerous requirements for storage and security systems with 24-hour audio and video surveillance. Even the Seattle Times agrees “… HB 2118 pushes gun control to a level of punishment for legitimate businesses… [and] unnecessarily tightens the rein on gun dealers while using the public’s safety as a smoke screen.”

NRA-ILA | Washington: Two Anti-Gun Bills Advance Through the Legislature

On Tuesday, February 27th, HB 2118, the “FFL Killer” passed the Senate, and SB 5444, "sensitive places" expansion, passed the House. Both bills were amended in the second chamber and now must return to their respective chambers of origin for concurrence and final passage before heading to the...

www.nraila.org

 

[Mosin77]

Sure hope that’s defeated in the courts…. But the problem is, even if it is, it’s likely to take a decade, and meanwhile they can apparently just pass 10 similar laws that enrich the lawyers, while facing zero consequences for their actions. This is the definition of tyranny, unfortunately.

 

[lightman]

I hope they get enough law suits to overturn this non-sense.

 

[AlexanderA]

I hope they get enough law suits to overturn this non-sense.

What would be the basis for the lawsuits? Putting onerous requirements on dealers is not directly a 2nd Amendment issue. While it seems that established brick-and-mortar gun stores could satisfy the requirements (perhaps at high cost), the real targets are home-based, part-time,"kitchen table" FFL dealers. Net effect would be to channel the gun trade into a very few hands.

 

[Gun-Reck]

It violates the Constitution.

That's Treason.

Start hanging them for it and this will stop, guaranteed.

 

[AlexanderA]

It violates the Constitution.

That's Treason.

Unfortunately, the Constitution itself defines "treason" as "only in levying war against them [the United States], or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." Alleged violations of the Constitution, without more, are not treason.

We need to be precise as to our terminology.

 

[alfsauve]

Could this become, if the BATF was so inclined, a jurisdictional issue? Unless the laws apply to all business equally then the state has no authority to dictate how Federal licenses conduct their business.

 

[bannockburn]

Could this new law be argued that the state of Washington is practicing Restraint of Trade against Federally licensed dealers?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Could this new law be argued that the state of Washington is practicing Restraint of Trade against Federally licensed dealers?

Possible Constitutional violation regarding interference with interstate commerce?

Then there's the law of unintended consequences - the state requires all transfers to go through an FFL, but with fewer FFLs to do transfers it encourages under the table black market sales of "unpapered" guns purchased before 2014 and can undo the state's "universal background check" law.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

No way the DeeOjay or EhTeaEff is going to challenge this under the current regime.

 

[J-Bar]

Move to flyover country, let the antis have the state. Let them pay for their choices.

You all have family elsewhere.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Move to flyover country, let the antis have the state. Let them pay for their choices.

You all have family elsewhere.

Very easy for you say, but this is not gun related so I won't continue more. There's alot of context that can leave someone in a state. Yes, I think at this point the western states are going to be liberal havens we can't change that now, but people stay there for a reason.

 

[J-Bar]

I have friends who moved to Missouri from Illinois and California, and are happy they did so. They could have remained in those other states, but made their decisions. If one chooses to live in an anti-gun state, I think they should not complain about it. It's their choice. They decide what is important to them.

 

[JO JO]

I have not given on Washington State , There is a strong 2A movement within the State with several law suites already filled and one just had a court case a few weeks ago and we are waiting for the ruling , The Governor is not seeking reelection and the AG has an uphill fight this election as a matter of fact the Seattle times "the liberal stronghold " wrote an article that the new laws have gone to far. The big Seattle liberal city is falling apart just like the saying give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. I will stay and continue to support and donate to the State 2A fight as all hope is not lost. Look at Oregon they are fighting for their rights and so far have overturned some nasty laws. If we keep turning tail and running away they will follow and we will loose one state at a time.
The bill the OP stated from what I have been told by guns stores is not a big deal as most gun stores and pawn shops already meet these requirements, it will target home/garage FFL's
To be clear I oppose any new anti 2A law and will continue to help where I can to donate and support the 2A groups that challenge them in Court and hope to preserve the sport shooting scene for my kids and future grandkids. I just found out that many High Schools in Washington State are bringing back Trap Shooting as a sport supported by the School district , one range I go to has set up an entire program for High School Trap Shooting.
I guess my point is don't turn tail and give up instead find a way to support and promote all is not lost

 

[Mosin77]

I have friends who moved to Missouri from Illinois and California, and are happy they did so. They could have remained in those other states, but made their decisions. If one chooses to live in an anti-gun state, I think they should not complain about it. It's their choice. They decide what is important to them.

I understand this point of view and I agree, on a personal level I sure am happy I live in a gun-friendly state. For now. But what happens when every big city in the country can exercise tyranny over the surrounding state? By land area 90% of liberal havens like Illinois, Minnesota, and probably even California are with us. It’s the massive urban areas and their bubbles of identity politics and alternative realities that force these unconstitutional laws on the whole state. Saying “just move” deprives us of any chance of ever fixing the problem. Is fixing it realistic? I don’t know. But things sure have changed fast in Washington. I’d like to think they could swing back in the other direction with enough coordination……but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Barmcd]

It violates the Constitution.

That's Treason.

Start hanging them for it and this will stop, guaranteed.

I don't think they are violating anyone's constitutional right to own a firearm, they're just making it hard to buy one from a small dealer. The law might be struck down on a number of points, but I don't think any of them will be the second amendment. And its not treason in any way shape or form because they aren't acting against the United States Government. At this point its just a law a lot of us disagree with that may take years to finally settle.

 

[J-Bar]

I understand this point of view and I agree, on a personal level I sure am happy I live in a gun-friendly state. For now. But what happens when every big city in the country can exercise tyranny over the surrounding state? By land area 90% of liberal havens like Illinois, Minnesota, and probably even California are with us. It’s the massive urban areas and their bubbles of identity politics and alternative realities that force these unconstitutional laws on the whole state. Saying “just move” deprives us of any chance of ever fixing the problem. Is fixing it realistic? I don’t know. But things sure have changed fast in Washington. I’d like to think they could swing back in the other direction with enough coordination……but I’m not holding my breath.

Concentrating pro-gun voters in any state cannot be a bad thing!

 

[silicosys4]

I don't think they are violating anyone's constitutional right to own a firearm, they're just making it hard to buy one from a small dealer. The law might be struck down on a number of points, but I don't think any of them will be the second amendment. And its not treason in any way shape or form because they aren't acting against the United States Government. At this point its just a law a lot of us disagree with that may take years to finally settle.

How many large chain stores will facilitate transfers?
None anywhere within reasonable driving distance to me.
This isn't just shutting down kitchen table ffl's. This is shutting down most lgs's and pawn shop ffl's as well. This is essentially killing the used gun market except for maybe the few Cabelas in the state.

 

[Barmcd]

How many large chain stores will facilitate transfers?
None anywhere within reasonable driving distance to me.
This isn't just shutting down kitchen table ffl's. This is shutting down most lgs's and pawn shop ffl's as well. This is essentially killing the used gun market except for maybe the few Cabelas in the state.

We have a few regional chains that will although Academy Sports and Outdoors charges $100 a transfer so I don't know how helpful that is. There seems to be one in every town in Texas though.

 

[Ks5shooter]

I have friends who moved to Missouri from Illinois and California, and are happy they did so. They could have remained in those other states, but made their decisions. If one chooses to live in an anti-gun state, I think they should not complain about it. It's their choice. They decide what is important to them.

Until you run out of states to go to.Then what?

 

[JO JO]

This is shutting down most lgs's and pawn shop ffl's as well.

Are you sure?
I live in Washington State and that's not what I have been told by the pawn shops and gun stores I go to?
Home and garage FFL will be impacted for sure but most gun stores and pawn shops will already meet the requirements , video surveillance, guns put in vault when closed and a solid locked door when closed most of this is already standard practice for a gun / pawn store

 

[Art30/30]

The problem we have here is plenty are moving in from those states and bringing their voting habits with them.

 

[AlexanderA]

I have friends who moved to Missouri from Illinois and California, and are happy they did so. They could have remained in those other states, but made their decisions. If one chooses to live in an anti-gun state, I think they should not complain about it. It's their choice. They decide what is important to them.

This reminds me of the classic tale of the "Appointment in Samarra." You think you are moving somewhere safe, and the evil just follows you. No state is guaranteed to be pro-gun in perpetuity.

 

[230RN]

How many large chain stores will facilitate transfers?
None anywhere within reasonable driving distance to me.
This isn't just shutting down kitchen table ffl's. This is shutting down most lgs's and pawn shop ffl's as well. This is essentially killing the used gun market except for maybe the few Cabelas in the state.

I just had the most brilliant earth-shaking deep powerful insight:

If there are no arms, the Second Amendment becomes meaningless.

Brilliant, simply brilliant, Terry.

I just hope the anti-gunners never figure that out.

Terry "Pats self on back for consummate sagacity," 230RN

 

[Carl N. Brown]

.... the real targets are home-based, part-time,"kitchen table" FFL dealers. ....

The real results will be ordinary citizens facing the choice that ordinary citizens faced in Mexico: thread an onerously restricted legal market, give up or go to the black market bodegas that supply criminals.