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Were we used as a proxy?

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Bruce H

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For Iraqi, the end justifies means


By Jack Fairweather
LONDON DAILY TELEGRAPH



BAGHDAD — An Iraqi leader accused of feeding faulty prewar intelligence to Washington said his information about Saddam Hussein's weapons — even if discredited — achieved the aim of persuading the United States to topple the dictator.
Ahmed Chalabi and his London-based exile group, the Iraqi National Congress, for years provided a conduit for Iraqi defectors who were debriefed by U.S. intelligence agents.
But many American officials now blame Mr. Chalabi for providing what turned out to be false or wildly exaggerated intelligence about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
During an interview, Mr. Chalabi, by far the most effective anti-Saddam lobbyist in Washington, shrugged off charges that he had deliberately misled U.S. intelligence.
"We are heroes in error," he said in Baghdad on Wednesday. "As far as we're concerned, we've been entirely successful.
"Our objective has been achieved. That tyrant Saddam is gone, and the Americans are in Baghdad. What was said before is not important."
Mr. Chalabi added: "The Bush administration is looking for a scapegoat. We're ready to fall on our swords if [President Bush] wants."
His comments are likely to inflame the debate on both sides of the Atlantic over the quality of prewar intelligence, and over the way it was presented by Mr. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair as they argued for military action.
U.S. officials said last week that one of the most celebrated pieces of false intelligence, the claim that Saddam had mobile biological-weapons laboratories, had come from a major in the Iraqi intelligence service made available by the INC.
U.S. officials at first found the information credible, and the defector passed a lie-detector test. But in later interviews it became apparent that he was stretching the truth and had been "coached by the INC."
He failed a second polygraph test, and intelligence agencies were warned that the information was unreliable in May 2002.
But analysts missed the warning, and the mobile-lab story remained firmly established in the catalog of purported Iraqi violations until months after the overthrow of Saddam.
The United States at one point claimed to have found two mobile labs, but the trucks were later reported to have held equipment to make hydrogen for weather balloons.
Last week, State Department officials conceded that much of the firsthand testimony they had received was "shaky."
"What the INC told us formed one part of the intelligence picture," said a senior official in Baghdad. "But what Chalabi told us, we accepted in good faith. Now there are going to be a lot of question marks over his motives."
Mr. Chalabi remains an influential member of the Iraqi Governing Council, though he has failed to develop the popular following in Iraq that his most enthusiastic sponsors once expected.


Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen this way. Give somebody an excuse who really wants to go to begin with has worked through out history. If it is true this dude and fhis followers need a tour of Gitmo. Same kind of people. Get others to fight your battles because you are too precioius. Kind of like all politicians.
 
Well... this can happen when the leader of your country is fixated on a course of action... tell him anything he wants to hear, and he will follow you anywhere. And yet..... he will probably be re-elected instead of impeached for incompetence.
 
We Got Him NOW!

"That tyrant Saddam is gone, and the Americans are in Baghdad. What was said before is not important."

We can nail his butt for plagiarism. He stole that quote straight out of a George Bush speech.......:barf:
 
Well... this can happen when the leader of your country is fixated on a course of action... tell him anything he wants to hear, and he will follow you anywhere. And yet..... he will probably be re-elected instead of impeached for incompetence.
bountyhunter

Are talking about anyone in particular or is this just hypothetical? Also, "incompetence" is not an impeachable offense. Something about "high crimes and misdemeanors".......
 
you are but lowly citizens, every Machievelian and Straussian neo-con knows the ends justifies the means, sometime you must lie to the people for their own best interest especially when so few know what their best interest really is. that is why we have a political class.

I did notice that $400million in US taxpayer contracts have been funnelled to companies connected to Mr. Chalabi in an article this week. He provided the neccessary 3rd source of intel to get around the pesky US intel community and he deserves our thanks and $$$. Without the testimony of his exiles, we never would have been able to sell this war to the US. Flying in his 100 some odd exile supporters on US military planes to topple that statue was pure genius as well.

Yes, we are heros in error but heros! heros! hurrah! hurrah! hurrah!
 
He provided the neccessary 3rd source of intel to get around the pesky US intel community and he deserves our thanks and $$$. Without the testimony of his exiles, we never would have been able to sell this war to the US. Flying in his 100 some odd exile supporters on US military planes to topple that statue was pure genius as well.


Support for the Iraqi National Congress as an official US policy began during Bubba Klintoon's administration when the US Congress passed legislation stating such and allocating funds for the overthrow of the Hussein regime and support to the INC.

Casting Chalabi's influence as a Bush or neo-con (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean this week) scheme is ignoring a lot of history on the subject. He had the ear of the Klintoon administration more so than the Bush II administration. One of the reasons for the Iraq II war was the realization by the Bush II cabinet that the INC et al. were never going to be able to take Saddam out. Chalabi had much less influence on WMD's with Bush II than Klintoon.


-edited for spellin' CHL22:36
 
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grass.jpg


ping-win.gif


@

straws.jpg
 
If you're referring to HG's response, grass + ping + @ ("at") + straws = grasping at straws. ;)
 
defiantely grasping at straws, especially since the admin was right and the invasion was a cakewalk and we've been gretted as liberators as the Iraqi's continue to throw rose pedals under the soldiers feet !
 
defiantely grasping at straws, especially since the admin was right and the invasion was a cakewalk and we've been gretted as liberators as the Iraqi's continue to throw rose pedals under the soldiers feet !

Which is a response completely off-topic. The topic is whether or not the INC misled the United States for years (including before the Bush Administration took office) on the subject of WMDs, not the state of the operation.
 
was does it matter if he duped us? like Cool Hand said, he duped clinton too so that absolves Bush of any responsibility. It's clintons fault don't ya see???
 
Thank you buzz_knox. I don't care when they started. If they deliberately fed bogus info they need shot. The one thing that really frosts me is getting somebody else to do your dirty work for you. Did these same purveyors of intellegence also put out the story of the Saddam doubles. How many of them have we found?
 
The house and senate both voted to dump Saddam. I have no problen with getting rid of Saddam. What I do have a problem with is the thought of being lied to by some jacka**like this and buying it. If this is correct in any form there is plenty of blame to go around.
 
Maybe not, but incompetence sure as heck is a RECALLABLE OFFENSE.
There is no provision for "recalling" the President within the Constitution of the United States. The President can only be removed from office by:

A) The Grim Reaper

B) Resignation

C) Impeachment

As the great Ronaldus Maximus once said:
Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so!
:rolleyes:
 
It's all about "liberating" people now eh? That makes me feel so warm and fuzzy... Wonder when we're going to "liberate" North Korea, East Timor, Rowanda, China etc... Or do we need to find oil there first? And if so, maybe someone from those countries will say, "we got oil here, come "liberate" us oh great "liberators" of the world!"


It's all a big scam.

J
 
I give up. To me this is about getting the United States to do something these chickens**ts wouldn't for fear of getting killed. Come kill our bad man so we can take over. :banghead:
 
I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that international politics is at play here.:what:

Exhibit 1: Iraqis in exile wanted Saddam gone and had wished so since the end of Gulf War 1 so they feed a mix of verifiable and unverifiable information to any western intelligence service who will listen. Remember? France, Britain, Russia, everybody thought the issues was whether Saddam had destroyed his WMDs, not whether they ever existed or how many remained on hand on a given day.

Exhibit 2: President Bush the younger wanted Saddam gone, especially in the days following 9/11.

Maybe I am naive and all that, though presumably I am not, having at one time been a student of international relations, but Gulf War 2 reeked of convergent interests in the toppling of Saddam from the get go. It is a play in the war book that goes all the way back to ancient Greece and China--you provide the pretext and we'll provide the war.

Round up the usual suspects, shocking politics have been taking place between sovereign governments and/or governments in exile.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't see any "grass" in the "grasping at straws?"

Ping I got immediately, also at.

I was trying to figure out what "Ping at Candy" or "Ping at Sticks" meant when I read the explanation.

Hey, wait--when I post, the grass picture shows up in the recap of the thread. What the?
:confused:
 
was does it matter if he duped us? like Cool Hand said, he duped clinton too so that absolves Bush of any responsibility. It's clintons fault don't ya see???

The point I was making is that its inaccurate to assign the entire blame for any intelligence failure on Iraq to Bush II. There's pleantly of balme to go around on Iraq, most of it to the Democrats. Blaming it all on some neo-con conspiracy is nuts.

Clinton was responsible for the large cut backs on human intelligence funding that made the picture the US had of Iraqi WMDs so false. He had eight (8) years in office to develop human intelligence on Iraq. Unfortunately he was too busy getting hummers from Monica, cleaning up VInce Foster's office ahead of any potential Luminol testing, etc., for all that boring international stuff.

Bush II can possibly be faulted for not getting rid of Clinton's DCI Tenet, who has had more Intelligence disasters on his watch than nearly any other.
 
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