Western hunting Caliber.

[bjs1187]

I'm confident this has been addressed, probably over and over but I will ask anyway. I need to buy one rifle. This rifle needs to handle two tasks. Elk and pronghorn. I reload, probably not to a high skill level, but I get the job done and can work a load up. What caliber should I go with. My gut says .300 WM, but that's a heavy cartridge for an antelope. I think a .308 is too small for a humane kill on an elk at 300-500 yards, and I want to be able to take that shot if necessary, as going out west to hunt will take me 3 yrs if saving/planning if I start now. I'm happy to spend that time learning a caliber/gun well enough to take that shot, but don't want to be pigeonholed into having a single use gun if the opportunity arises for another species cheaper and quicker such as antelope.

Thanks in advance,
Ben

 

[macgrumpy]

30-06

 

[Water-Man]

There's a big difference between a 300 & 500 yd shot on elk.

A 30-06 would serve you well on a 300yd. shot but you'd be starting to push the envelope on 500yd. shots. The 300 WM would serve you better on the longer shot.

I used a 300 Wtby. Mag with 150gr. on the smaller animal and 180gr. for the larger at those distances.

 

[Bobson]

Since you reload, the 300WM is perfectly fine. Load it down and with bullet X for pronghorn, load it hotter and with bullet Y for elk. Sure you can go 30-06 if you want, but there's no reason to shy away from the 300 WM. It's as versatile as you'll load it to be.

 

[macgrumpy]

Funny, a guy that lives in Georgia lecturing a guy that lives in Montana about what caliber would work best for western elk. I was born and raised in Arizona, spent almost a decade in Utah and have been living in Montana for several years - I'm fully aware of what a 30-06 can do, it'll drop an elk very well out to 5 or 600 yards with a 175gr bullet. I don't know why so many people think that you need a .300 Win Mag or bigger for elk, people dropped elk and grizzlies for a long time with a simple 30-30.

If you don't live out west then I'd recommend not taking long shots on any game unless you've done a lot of practice at longer ranges under field conditions (out of breath without a rifle rest). And don't forget to practice shooting uphill and downhill, a lot of people wonder what happened when they took their dream shot at their game that was standing up the side of mountain, they just know they aimed dead on but the bullet seemed to go over the top of the animal.

Most everybody has the wrong impression of the kind of environment the west is. Yes, you can be presented with long open shots for antelope but quite often you will only get a shot at an elk or deer at ranges of under 300 yards. Where I live you'd be hard pressed to get a shot at more than 100 yards most of the time. Past 300 yards it gets pretty iffy regardless of what weapon you use and .300s or bigger destroy more edible meat than a 30-06.

 

[Bobson]

...300s or bigger destroy more edible meat than a 30-06.

The only difference between the 30-06 and the 300 magnums is the velocity, but the OP has the ability to tailor that precisely.

I think the 30-06 is a fine choice. I'm just saying there's virtually zero drawback to selecting something with more case capacity (300 win mag or weatherby mag) since he reloads. He doesn't have to load it to the cartridge's upper limits.

A guy could go out and buy a 300 Win Mag and spend the rest of his life shooting it at 30-30 levels if he wanted to, but he would have the flexibility to reach out to 1000 yards with authority should he ever need it. I think there's value in that.

 

[jmr40]

The only difference between the 30-06 and the 300 magnums is the velocity,

The 308, 30-06, and 300 MW all shoot the same bullets. The difference in all 3 is how fast they leave the muzzle. Assuming you need 1500 ft lbs of energy to take an elk the best 308 hand loads runs out of speed and energy at about 500 yards. The 30-06 at about 700 and the 300 WM at about 900. With typical factory loads that is reduced quite about 200 yards for 30-06 or 300 WM, not so much with 308, about 50 yards.

300s or bigger destroy more edible meat than a 30-06

Only if shot at very close range. The 300's shoot the same bullets, at 200 yards they are the same speed as a 30-06 is at the muzzle and will destroy no more meat.

The next question, how far can you shoot and hit an elk?

You also have to balance how heavy a rifle you want to lug around at 10,000' for days at a time. You can keep a 308 UNDER 6 lbs ready to hunt although closer to 7 is typical. A 30-06 is about 1 lb heavier, 7 lb rigs are possible, but closer to 8 is normal. The 300 WM's are usually about 2 lbs heavier than a 308. It is possible to build a 300 under 8 lbs, but excessive recoil is the limiting factor. A 7-7.5 lb 300 is wicked.

I'd use any of the 3 on any animal in the lower 48, and at any range I have the skills to shoot. Considering my long range skills a lightweight 7-7.5 lb rig chambered in 30-06 is the best balance for me. But I'd have no issues with a 308 and good hand loads. Especially as I get older and in rougher terrain.

To be honest anything in the 30-06 class is going to give similar results. I could just as soon pick 270, 280, 7mm RM, 7X57, 7-08, even any of the 6.5's and cleanly take elk out to 300-400 yards, out past 500 for most of them.

If someone can shoot well enough at extended ranges to make use of a 300 mags I have no issue with them using one. Or even if they just want one even if they can't take advantage of it. Personal choice, but you should make that choice understanding all the positives and negatives.

The 7mm magnums aren't as popular as they once were and may be the best western cartridge. The recoil is almost the same as 30-06, they shoot similar bullet weights at virtually the same speeds with similar energy numbers at close range. But the better BC's of the 7mm bullets mean flatter trajectory and more energy at longer ranges, At long range they split the difference between 30-06 and 300 WM.

 

[farmerboy78]

I will say 30-06 too but check out the 6.5-06. With the 140+ gr bullets they have alot of killing power that is very streamline. I took a whitetail last year at 875yds drt.

 

[Sav .250]

If I were you ,I would have done my own home work......."Learn more."

 

[Robert]

I carry a 375H&H. While I don't hunt Antelope it works just fine for elk. My hunting partner turned me on to it, and after many long conversations about the pros and cons of the 375 over the 06 and other big game rounds I settled on the 375. I can put a 270gr bullet to the same poi as a 180gr 30-06 bullet at 300y with more power on target but do far less meat damage than a 300WM with better penatration for less than ideal shots.

For both animals I'd not feel undergunned with 30-06 but would also look at 6.5-06 too. Heck I'd probably use my 375 for both...

 

[X-Rap]

I have a few to choose from but if I could have but one for all around lower 48 hunting I'd have to pick the REM. 7 mag. Especially if you reload..

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[Arkansas Paul]

.300s or bigger destroy more edible meat than a 30-06.

Well they shoot the same bullet, so it depends on the range the animal is shot at.

For example a .30-caliber 180 grain Nosler Partition in a .300 Win mag will be trucking along at apprx. 2500 fps at 200 yards. The same exact bullet from a .30-06 will be travelling at roughly the same velocity at 100 yards.
So an animal hit in the same spot will perform the same, with velocity being equal.

If you shoot a deer or elk or whatever you're shooting at at 50 yds with a fast expanding bullet in a magnum, of course you're going to have massive tissue destruction.
But it is not as simple as ".300 mags ruin more meat than .30-06s".
Sometimes, yes.

I have personally witnessed whitetails shot with a .338 Win mag and you could eat right up to the hole.
I have also witnessed deer shot with a .223 Rem that was so bloodshot an entire shoulder was completely ruined.

 

[Art Eatman]

You don't ruin meat if you don't shoot Alvin Antelope, Bambi Buck or Elmer Elk in the eating part.

Me, I've had sublime faith in the old '06 since 1950. So far, so good.

 

[Gunnerboy]

264 Win mag, 26 nosler, 6.5-300weath, 6.5-06, 6.5x55AI ...you get the idea.

 

[Don McDowell]

I'm confident this has been addressed, probably over and over but I will ask anyway. I need to buy one rifle. This rifle needs to handle two tasks. Elk and pronghorn. I reload, probably not to a high skill level, but I get the job done and can work a load up. What caliber should I go with. My gut says .300 WM, but that's a heavy cartridge for an antelope. I think a .308 is too small for a humane kill on an elk at 300-500 yards, and I want to be able to take that shot if necessary, as going out west to hunt will take me 3 yrs if saving/planning if I start now. I'm happy to spend that time learning a caliber/gun well enough to take that shot, but don't want to be pigeonholed into having a single use gun if the opportunity arises for another species cheaper and quicker such as antelope.

Thanks in advance,
Ben

The 308 works just fine on elk as far away as most folks have any business shooting at one.
Next time you get a chance to get out in the country take a range finder with you and range a cow in the pasture at 350-500 yards and then decide if you can place a clean kill shot in hunting conditions at that distance. Then go to the range and set up a target at 300 yds, take your rifle and gear and run 100 yds to the firing line take the kneeling or sitting position and see if you can hit the center of the target on the first shot within 5-10 seconds..
Back in the day before it became fashionable to have to have a magnum to shoot elk at close range, the cartridges you would find in elk camp included the 7x57,270,30-40 and 30-06, and in the mid 60's the 264,308 and 7mm rem would start to show up. Those cartridges and a whole host of others worked great then, and still do today.

 

[Captcurt]

There! I have said it.

I have owned a truckload of rifles in a dozen different calibers. If I had one rifle to do everything it would be a 30-06.

I love the 270 and the 6.5 and carried a 300 WSM for several years, but they didn't do anything that couldn't have been done by the 06.

 

[RevJim]

A .308 or 30-06 with the 130 to 150gr Barnes TTSX are both way plenty for elk and antelope. My hunting pardner here in Utah has used his Browning BLR .308 since 1970 on everything, even cow buffalo! I play with all sorts of calibers, because I'm a gun nut (ha) but he sticks with that 308, usually with Remington factory 150gr Corlokts! If you just want a magnum, may I suggest the 7mm Remington Magnum, very popular out here, but heavier than actually needed. Get a good rangefinder and try to get 300yds or closer, you will be fighting the wind out here! Have a ball Pard!

 

[35 Whelen]

It doesn't matter much what you use so long as it has a reasonable amount of power. I killed my first bull with a rifle chambered for the quite ordinary 7x57 Mauser loaded with an equally ordinary 154 gr. gr. Hornady SP. The last three bulls have been taken with a 35 Whelen.

I have a buddy who outfitter and guided elk hunters I nI n Northern New Mexico, specifically in the trophy laden, coveted Valle Vidal area. He told many stories of clients shooting calibers they couldn't handle. When he hunted elk for himself, he used a .308 Winchester.

Bottom line is select a reasonably powerful cartridge, preferably beginning with .27 or higher, loaded with a well constructed bullet, and practice.

35W

 

[witchhunter]

Elk hunters that I know use everything from a 25/06 to a 375 H&H. Use what you can shoot well and use a well constructed bullet like a Nosler partition. Please don't shoot at an elk or an antelope at 500 yards if you can get closer. I blame those long range shows on TV for this new concept of shooting at game that is way out there. It can and has been done, but most HUNTERS can get closer and make a one shot kill.

 

[Captcurt]

Elk hunters that I know use everything from a 25/06 to a 375 H&H. Use what you can shoot well and use a well constructed bullet like a Nosler partition. Please don't shoot at an elk or an antelope at 500 yards if you can get closer. I blame those long range shows on TV for this new concept of shooting at game that is way out there. It can and has been done, but most HUNTERS can get closer and make a one shot kill.

Witchdoctor has got a point here. You see the Pros in the videos blasting bambi at 600 yards, but how many did they miss or cripple and lose at that distance? If you hunt long enough you are going to screw up. I seldom screw up at close range.

 

[Bush Pilot]

Get a .25/06, learn how to use it and keep your shots on elk at 350 yds or less. I've killed elk, black bear, sheep, caribou, mtn goat, whitetail, antelope and mule deer with either a .25/06 or .270 and never had to fire more than 2 shots.

 

[papaairbear]

Well, there is this :

"The closer you get to a big city gun shop, the larger the caliber of rifles you find. "

I think an 06 has taken more Western game than any other caliber. Even at 500 to 600 yards (open desert mountains of Southeastern Idaho- google Arco, Idaho} it's quickly taken animals when the shooter has done his practice and can consistently hit at those ranges.

 

[X-Rap]

Yep, the 30-06 is a capable round and those who know that get it without the silly cliches that so often seem to come along with it. Take a look at similar threads and it appears that there is some sort of inferiority complex out there.
I'm not a proponent of sub 7mm calibers for elk and through personal experience feel the 280 is as far as one needs to go.
That said, my personal choices these last years have been a 338-378 and 45-70.

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[papaairbear]

Sorry to upset you. But the cliche stands true.

 

[X-Rap]

I suppose another of your favorites is "beware the man with one gun ......

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