What About the Other Guy?

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I see a lot of us have intellectually considered multiple attackers exist, the question was, do you train for them? Again, at the range, do you typically stand in one fixed location shooting at a single target? The afteraction reports coming out about confrontations show 1) if you are standing not moving, you are a target 2) you won't be for very long.

I don't see descriptions of attackers standing upright in the open for very long, either. They tend to shoot move seek cover. Basically, if you are practicing for accuracy, a standard indoor target range is fine, it you are practicing for tactical proficiency, an outdoor range where you shoot, move, seek cover, return fire is more appropriate. Fixed range training is teaching us inappropriate behavior that is tactically unsound.

If you have played baseball and coached children, one of the fundamentals is to keep your eye on the ball. The related expression is that if you turn your back to the ball that's when it comes your way - and right on past you. Do we train to keep the opponent in our eyesight as we move backwards away to create distance? I'm told by many who trained me that if you turn your back to the shooter, you get shot in the back. You don't see it coming and you aren't suppressing their inclination to do something bad. Like shoot you in the back.

We discuss the incidents these lessons come from, but what do we do to actually train and prevent them? I used to work at a job that required I walk from a building to another across a busy side street in a small town, and after about two weeks I can say with absolute certainty I would look LEFT every time I approached the curb. I still do, and it got picked up in my driving, too. Approaching traffic comes from the LEFT first, closer, and quicker - yet many who steeer their cars to work seem less than informed about doing it. A lot of pedestrians are hit from the LEFT as they step off the curb, it's a lot harder to walk all the way across a street into traffic coming from the right that you didn't see.

Don't turn your back on the ball, don't turn your back on a shooter - do you practice it? Do you practice moving to cover, or removing your gun from a holster while standing in the open signalling you need to be shot? Do you practice range safety per arbitrary rules, placing your gun on a bench in front of you, or do you practice the way you will use it, unholstering acquiring a target shooting twice then moving away to the rear while not turning your back?

How many train with their wife shoot move communicate while leaving a retail store or restaurant or theater? Seems to be a more common scene than being confronted by some perp who steps out at a range from behind the backstop or target and starts shooting back. That never seems to happen. But it's all that we seem to train for.

t should be obvious that normal ranges set up tor target practice are not reinforcing methods of handling firearms in a way that you need for real life - they are reinforcing habits that lead to being unable to respond and worse, that get you killed.

If you are caught in a store, do you tip over displays or rake the shelf to remove products to impede the shooter as you create distance? I wouldn't give my position away nor would I miss the opportunity. In a long corridor with block or concrete, do you center up to keep ricochets from hitting you? It's a notable observation hugging the wall tends to get into the path of more bullets, not less, and you can't view the door openings or hallways as readily - stepping away to "pie" them is better.

I just don't see how banging away at a black target shedding flourescent highlights is going teach any of that. And I don't see many ranges that let you carry loaded and holstered do that, either. Are we training for failure, or training to survive?
 
A new shooter practices at stationary targets to gain proficiency with whatever weapon they're carrying (or issued, or at hand...). That's the basics - being able to direct your fire to a particular spot, then we continue training to maintain and/or improve our proficiency (and those in jobs that require firearms are tested periodically to make sure they still have that basic proficiency....).

The possibility that your proficiency may need to be expanded as we learn basic defensive skills - that's another step up the ladder and shouldn't begin until you can master the handling and shooting part (always with the appropriate level of safe practice), and we try to improve on those skills over time (and if you're like me hoping those skills will never be tested in a real world encounter..).

Now for some very basic defensive concepts.... An armed encounter will rarely ever be a face to face static proposition... It will be fluid, quick, maybe even fleeting with only a tiny moment of extreme peril... In some cases an individual armed citizen might come under fire - and not even be able to distinguish where those rounds are coming from - much less be able to see a specific target - or the shooter might be in a crowd scene where you can't risk return fire while you, yourself are in grave danger... That's the primary reason that good defensive tactics are so important if you're hoping to survive that once in a lifetime situation. In our officer survival training (developed by our own in-house trainers) one of the first principles we stressed was that "John Wayne is dead"... and you'll be joining him if you're foolish enough to stand out in the open while defending yourself in an armed encounter... Of course we've all grown up on movies and other popular entertainments showing the "hero" doing just that. We heavily stressed cover and concealment (and the very important differences between the two) if facing a possible armed opponent - and pointed out that running to cover (full on evasive action to get out of the line of fire) was far preferable to standing your ground out in the open and winning or losing in the moment - unless you had no other choice...

All of this is the "next level" of preparedness for the possibility that one of us might need to defend ourselves or loved ones in a sudden violent encounter - and yes - it means shooting drills that mix movement while engaging, as well as proper cover, concealment, and other tactics to enable you to survive.... I'll stop here and be allow skilled trainers in the combat arts to point out the kind of training needed to improve any armed citizen's skill level. I'll still maintain though, that your actual tactics in a sudden survival situation are far more important than the weapons you have with you at the time... All while your adrenaline is off the charts and you're so scared that you might not even realize you've left the safety on the weapon in place... among other faults that would never happen when you're not under severe stress and physical exertion...
 
Officer Aubrey Hawkins and I had worked together at an agency in Texas before he went to the Irving PD. On 12-24-2020, just after having Christmas Eve dinner with his family, Aubrey responded to a suspicious circumstance call at a local sporting goods store. Upon arrival, he drove into a robbery in progress and was ambushed by seven escapees from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. He was shot multiple times while still sitting in his car. They dragged Aubrey from his vehicle, stripped him of his armor and ran over him as well. Please know that you may not fully understand the situation in which you find yourself. Aubrey was a very good police officer, a fighter and well trained yet this happened to him.
 
I have deliberately refrained from speaking of the finer points of street survival since most of it is aimed at officers who might find almost any situation on the job - and particularly the kind of teamwork and caution that greatly diminishes the opportunity an opponent has to ambush and/or assault… I’ll just mention that it’s your tactics that will keep you safe or provide the much needed advantage when facing a dedicated (or just lucky) adversary…

No, the good guys don’t always win - and we’ve seen too much of that in recent years…
 
Quick, moving, multiple opponents really are what we need to prepare for.

We need to practice drawing from concealment, engaging multiple targets at various distances, moving, using cover and/or concealment, shooting at smaller-than-full-frontal targets, avoiding hostages, shooting in poor lighting, etc. For shooters who are already proficient in safe gun-handling and basic marksmanship, I think that the biggest challenge is to find a place to develop and practice these additional skills.

Everything else is easily available. Many trainers teach these skills. Lots of drills are available in the public domain to facilitate practice. Carry gear provides the tools. Even the ammo shortage can be overcome by going dry, or using airsoft or other substitutes. Use some creativity to combine these elements and you'll develop vastly expanded skills.

This kind of training and practice also becomes a springboard to making adjustments to carry gear AND tactics. I like to set up scenarios from ASP videos or from the layout of my house or property to think about drills to practice. Doing these kinds of practical activities gives me a chance to think about firearm selection and capacity, spare magazines, sights, flashlights, how I might want to move, etc.

I've developed my home ranges on my own land to allow me to practice all of these skills. I've gotten some good training (although there is always room for more). And I've collected lots of drills.

But keeping my creative juices stoked is a challenge. Developing speed remains a challenge. Finding like-minded, creative partners is, too.
 
Quick, moving, multiple opponents really are what we need to prepare for.

We need to practice drawing from concealment, engaging multiple targets at various distances, moving, using cover and/or concealment, shooting at smaller-than-full-frontal targets, avoiding hostages, shooting in poor lighting, etc. For shooters who are already proficient in safe gun-handling and basic marksmanship, I think that the biggest challenge is to find a place to develop and practice these additional skills.
Good thinking.

Let me add looking for innocents in front of and behind each target, and thinking about a backstop. On the one occasion on which I stumbled into a robbery that was about to happen, I did that. It did require movement.

Under the circumstances, I could not stand and watch.

There was one perp, plus a driver in the car, whom I had seen. I did not consciously look for another accomplice, but th would-be robber, as attention was directed entirely at the man outside through the windows and the manager at the cash box--that is, until he saw me and bolted.

Fortunately, neither I nor anyone else blocked his path to the door.
 
Folks, this is where a well setup and orchestrated training class may help expand someone's awareness of possibilities and potential needs of the individual gun owner who may wish to better prepare to use their firearm in a defensive role.

Many years ago we (instructors at my former agency) began incorporating scenarios in our qual courses-of-fire and training where 2 or more threat targets were involved. Welcome to the 90's, right? The inclusion of non-threat (Don't Shoot ME) targets were randomly mixed in, as well, to help keep people on their toes to try and avoid getting tunnel vision (and mistaking everyone as a threat). Cover, barricades, movement, varied shooting positions, reloading, etc ... it was all included back then. Each new OIS incident that was shared among LE could help everyone evaluate the need for looking at current problems in a new way, as well as an increased emphasis on basics and tactics. Bullseye shooting and PPC was fading fast.

This is all well and good, but if a group of attackers is actively involved, they probably aren't going to be choreographed, like in TV and the Movies, to wait their turn to attack the "good guy" in a convenient sequence (for the good guy). Getting swarmed by attackers is one of those instances where a victim may run out of time before they run out of ammo, let alone have the opportunity to "engage" each individual threat.

How well can you get those fast - but solidly accurately - 1 or 2 quick hits on 1 or 2 attackers? How about an accurate hit on each of 3 attackers?

Capacity? Not really something that keeps me awake at night. When it was common for LE revolver shooters to carry a J-frame or DS, it was common to hear the disclaimer that having only 5 or 6 shots meant you were basically only prepared to engage 1 or 2 attackers. However, having the time, position, opportunity and ability to get off those first 1, 2 or 3 shots? Accurately placed? Under stress? That was often discussed as being the real trick. It's always lurking in the back of my mind.
 
One other point to stress in any training scenario to prepare for a deadly encounter - is the simple fact that you're absolutely responsible for each and every round you fire....

Here's a true story that illustrates that.... One of my officers, a veteran (and not a very aggressive officer) came upon a carload of young men - and the car was reported stolen... All he knew was that the moment he tried to pull them over a high speed chase began. It was around 9Am on a weekday so he was pretty much on his own (every other officer on the shift that day was engaged). The chase didn't last long since the young men screamed up into a housing area (suburban, single family homes) then bailed out with him right on top of them.... Our officer in the moment fired a single shot and missed anyone from the car - then kept his cool, stayed with the car and directed other officers to set up a perimeter. So far, so good and we caught most of the juveniles... without much difficulty.
I arrived on the scene, finding my officer still breathing hard but finally calming down... He gave me a brief synopsis of the incident and I asked him one question that really got to the heart of the matter... "Where did your round go" ? He looked down the street at all those houses and you could see him pale as he looked at all those houses... In fact I thought he was going to pass out thinking about the possible consequences of his action... Fortunately we didn't find a hole in a window (or anyone wounded) so the incident ended on a good note, but the possibility that his round had hit an innocent person was very real....

Something to think about...
 
One of the signs I learned to look for as a young cop out looking to catch someone breaking bad - was two or more young guys in a car not going anywhere in particular.... Make it three or four and I could be certain they weren't on their way to church (or synagogue...). Yes there are solo actors - burglars that I've actually caught in the act were often single operators - and serious bad sex offenders (the kind that mix sex and violence... ) were usually solo acts - at least the ones I took reports about (and once or twice actually caught...).

For myself though in preparing for a possible defensive situation have always assumed that I'd be facing more than one opponent. In our officer survival training - all those years ago we taught our young (and not so young) officers that they should always look for a second weapon on anyone they were taking into custody (and I was personally involved on two occasions when an offender in custody was found to still have a firearm on him... after being placed in custody by other officers... very scary stuff. Part of our officer survival training involved 2nd or 3rd party ambushes of officers whose attention was focused on one subject when another seeming bystander was in fact an accomplice... and armed...

These days I've seen one or more bad outcomes for officers who apparently were never trained the way we were, so I'm guessing that old lessons have either been forgotten or were never learned - resulting in tragedies...

Any armed citizen is well advised not to focus on "just one problem" but keep their eyes and ears open for the chance that more than one offender is on the scene... Simply acting as defensively as possible, keeping your backside covered is always a good idea. Most will never realize just how important that is until they have a close call or are badly injured and survive a situation that a bit more caution might have prevented..

And as perfectly stated by a LEO as can be made !!!.

To any and ALL who think [ if they can actually do so ? ] that they will engage and stop criminal acts with their use of ANY force.

You need to ask those who have done so many,MANY times [ that would only be a cop with DECADES on the job ] what it requires and how many times he almost bit the bullet by missing a 'thing'.

If you are taking "force on force" classes then you have a real idea what can and WILL GO WRONG.

Fight of flight, fatal funnel [ tunnel vision ] ,muzzling friendlys,tachypschia [ time slowing ]. = just a few of the things you NEED to study if your a warrior and expect to take on a really BAD situation.
 
If there's more than one then it's boarding house rules.

Nobody gets seconds until everybody has had firsts.

And no matter what, check your six because that's where the danger often comes from.
 
Officer Aubrey Hawkins and I had worked together at an agency in Texas before he went to the Irving PD. On 12-24-2020, just after having Christmas Eve dinner with his family, Aubrey responded to a suspicious circumstance call at a local sporting goods store. Upon arrival, he drove into a robbery in progress and was ambushed by seven escapees from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. He was shot multiple times while still sitting in his car. They dragged Aubrey from his vehicle, stripped him of his armor and ran over him as well. Please know that you may not fully understand the situation in which you find yourself. Aubrey was a very good police officer, a fighter and well trained yet this happened to him.

I do, very much, remember this. (Minor correction: It was earlier than 2020. 2000, IIRC.) Those malevolent seven were doing burglaries down here in the Houston area, too. I remember paying extra attention to the Academy store, in my patrol area, along US 59, after Officer Aubrey Hawkins was murdered.

I remember.
 
Yes, it was 2000. Thank you for correcting my mistype. A friend of mine called me at about 6:00 AM on Christmas Day with the news. It was just horrible. Be safe.

Not a “mistake,” brother; just a typographical error. I only mentioned it, so that folks can more easily enter search terms, into a search engine. Electronic keyboards make such typos all the more likely, and, of course, spell check will not “hit” on numbers.

The murder of Officer Aubrey Hawkins had a profound effect, on me; the most-memorable “could have been me” event that I can recall. Later, when it became apparent just how much of a planned ambush it was, I recall a chilling feeling, overcoming me, yet again.

I remember feeling so incensed, when news media reporters seemed to be discussing the seven escaped felons in an almost positive way, as if they were some some of heroes.

For that matter, I find myself getting worked-up, about this sad event, now.

Officer Aubrey Hawkins. Remember!

Let’s all be safe and well.
 
I don't see descriptions of attackers standing upright in the open for very long, either. They tend to shoot move seek cover.
Or run directly at you. How about one coming very fast around the back of your vehicle, and no longer accompanied by his his erstwhile companion with whom you had just seen him?
 
That's why I put my five-shot revolver back in the safe.
There are too many instances of multiple assailants occurring these days.

Indeed, that is why I went from a Ruger LC9S to a Security 9 Compact with 15 + 1 capacity along with an extra 15 round magazine.
 
The intruder chased the woman and pushed her down, injuring her knee severely and tearing a muscle in her upper leg. Her knee had not recovered at the time the article was written--7 years after the attack. Her husband intervened at that point and the attack focused on him from that point on.

The intruder beat the man with the pistol, opening wounds on his head. The single gunshot he fired grazed the man's head causing a minor wound. During the attack, while they were wrestling, he bit one of the man's fingers with sufficient force to crush the bones in it.

Both were hospitalized after the attack.

Found an online link.

https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/home-invasion-the-coker-family-incident/

A very interesting and frightening read. Thanks.
 
I see a lot of us have intellectually considered multiple attackers exist, the question was, do you train for them? Again, at the range, do you typically stand in one fixed location shooting at a single target? The afteraction reports coming out about confrontations show 1) if you are standing not moving, you are a target 2) you won't be for very long.

I don't see descriptions of attackers standing upright in the open for very long, either. They tend to shoot move seek cover. Basically, if you are practicing for accuracy, a standard indoor target range is fine, it you are practicing for tactical proficiency, an outdoor range where you shoot, move, seek cover, return fire is more appropriate. Fixed range training is teaching us inappropriate behavior that is tactically unsound.

If you have played baseball and coached children, one of the fundamentals is to keep your eye on the ball. The related expression is that if you turn your back to the ball that's when it comes your way - and right on past you. Do we train to keep the opponent in our eyesight as we move backwards away to create distance? I'm told by many who trained me that if you turn your back to the shooter, you get shot in the back. You don't see it coming and you aren't suppressing their inclination to do something bad. Like shoot you in the back.

We discuss the incidents these lessons come from, but what do we do to actually train and prevent them? I used to work at a job that required I walk from a building to another across a busy side street in a small town, and after about two weeks I can say with absolute certainty I would look LEFT every time I approached the curb. I still do, and it got picked up in my driving, too. Approaching traffic comes from the LEFT first, closer, and quicker - yet many who steeer their cars to work seem less than informed about doing it. A lot of pedestrians are hit from the LEFT as they step off the curb, it's a lot harder to walk all the way across a street into traffic coming from the right that you didn't see.

Don't turn your back on the ball, don't turn your back on a shooter - do you practice it? Do you practice moving to cover, or removing your gun from a holster while standing in the open signalling you need to be shot? Do you practice range safety per arbitrary rules, placing your gun on a bench in front of you, or do you practice the way you will use it, unholstering acquiring a target shooting twice then moving away to the rear while not turning your back?

How many train with their wife shoot move communicate while leaving a retail store or restaurant or theater? Seems to be a more common scene than being confronted by some perp who steps out at a range from behind the backstop or target and starts shooting back. That never seems to happen. But it's all that we seem to train for.

t should be obvious that normal ranges set up tor target practice are not reinforcing methods of handling firearms in a way that you need for real life - they are reinforcing habits that lead to being unable to respond and worse, that get you killed.

If you are caught in a store, do you tip over displays or rake the shelf to remove products to impede the shooter as you create distance? I wouldn't give my position away nor would I miss the opportunity. In a long corridor with block or concrete, do you center up to keep ricochets from hitting you? It's a notable observation hugging the wall tends to get into the path of more bullets, not less, and you can't view the door openings or hallways as readily - stepping away to "pie" them is better.

I just don't see how banging away at a black target shedding flourescent highlights is going teach any of that. And I don't see many ranges that let you carry loaded and holstered do that, either. Are we training for failure, or training to survive?
There is a great business opportunity for someone to set up a chain of ranges where people could train for real-life situations. Automate the scenarios and the BGs can be holograms. For safety, only one person at a time per training area, but there could be more than one training area at a site. This would be much more practical and could be offered at a much more economical price than traveling out of town to a pricey training facility where you have to go the same speed as the rest of the class. (When LEARNING a person should be able to at least at the beginning go at their own speed.) Plus most people can't really concentrate for 8 hours in a row. Book for one-hour increments.
 
You know, a couple of the things that made me expand my thinking about what might happen in a bad situation, and be better able to hope to recognize the potential before it was underway, were the result of taking some classes on my own time.

One day-long class I attended 2 or 3 times was taught by Dr Larry Blum about cops who have been shot. (8hr class called "I'm Shot"). He discussed the psychological aspects, and invited cop speakers who had been shot and seriously injured during incidents. One of the guest speakers he invited at one conference where he taught his class was LAPD's Stacey Lim. A friend of mine who used to work LAPD also mentioned that Dr Larry Blum was the psych he'd been sent to see after his couple of OIS incidents.

Another interesting class was taught by Dr Steven A. Rhoads, who has 40 years in police work and as a retired Chief. That class was called Detecting Danger. Think verbal and non-verbal indicators of deception, recognizing (and later articulating) precursors to violence from suspects, proxemics and danger during field contacts, etc.

Well, the FBI sponsored LEOKA field class was good, too (Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted), but I wasn't able to take that one until I'd retired from my active career and was just remaining on as a reserve and consultant at my former agency.

Okay, I also went to Lt Col Dave Grossman's classes a few times.

I wish I'd been able to have access to that sort of training as a younger cop, but they were still very useful even late in my career, and the valuable lessons learned are still good to know in retirement. ;)

All the years of shooting training and classes related to having served as a firearms trainer for my agency were all well and good, and firearms skills are very important, obviously, but the importance of the knowledge gained in the other classes can't be underestimated or undervalued.

Not sure how much of it might be of interest or immediate practical 'value' to the average private citizen, but knowledge is knowledge, and has value, right?
 
There is a great business opportunity for someone to set up a chain of ranges where people could train for real-life situations. Automate the scenarios and the BGs can be holograms. For safety,....
There were a number of excellent 300-degree laser simulation training facilities set up some ten years ago. Trainees participated in realistic virtual defensive situations. Numerous scenarios were available. Reviews were outstanding.

I haven't seen anything posted on them since 2011.
 
There have been several studies that show positive outcomes from good simulations and FOF. The last one I read demonstrated that they cut down shooting unarmed people significantly.
 
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