What are some options for...........

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cslinger

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Ok so Sheslinger likes shooting rifles. She is not recoil sensitive at all, see Benelli Nova 18.5inch with 3.5inch magnums, but the weight of the forearm of a rifle makes most of them difficult for her to shoot off hand standing. She tends to have a hard time keeping the weapon steady.

Ok so that being said what is the shortest / lightest front end rifle that there is.

She has recently held a Bushmaster M17S and really really likes the bullpup arrangement and loves the fact that it is a bit of an oddball. Unfortunitely there is more bad to say about the Bushy then good. Now admittedly she would most likely only be using it as a 25 yard plinker and possibly a HD carbine so maybe the M17 isn't that bad. Ok so it is but I am a firm believer in letting your wife choose what fits them the best.

Anyway what other options are there. The main criteria here is a light forearm/barrel weight. Caliber must be something decent and plentiful .223 etc. Recoil is not an issue at all. She soaks up recoil better then many men I know.

So what should she look into holding and checking out.
Superlight Bushmaster AR-15?
AR-180B?
Mini-14 maybe

Unfortunitely the bullpup design seems to work very well for her. No we are not going to buy a friggen AUG. :D

So what are the options here. It's gotta be light weight up front and handy. Preferably evil and black(she has a think for evil guns). Cheap magazines would be nice as would cheap ammo but he main criteria is light up front.

So get them gears a turning and tell me what you think.

Thanks
Chris
 
There are a couple of companies that do custom work on the M17S. I've never fired one, but hell you never know until you actually try.

I think the bullpup configuration is a nifty concept myself. I have fired the British SA80A2 a couple of times (nothing formal, just playing around), and I thought it was a nice little rifle (of course, I don't have anything to compare it with, and I have read a LOT of horror stories about it).

I think if you do a a search here and on the TFL site, there were several threads about the M17.

ANM
 
Yeah I have done quite a bit of research on the M17 and found that.....

Seems to be reliable.
Seems to be built pretty well.
Has the worst "Iron Sights" ever put on a rifle
Heats up the handguard very quickly.
Has anywhere from a horrible to a pretty bad trigger.
Feels kind of cheap.


Basically it seems to be a reasonably decent rifle if you are ok with it's limitations. This is not my kind of rifle but I do admit that it balances very very nicely and is very handy.

I personally don't like it all that much but it does have the AR-15 magazine/.223 going for it (ie cheap and available).

I was just wondering if there was anything else that would be remotely as light or balance near as well.

I wonder if one of the Bushy Superlight uppers on a standard full size stock lower with maybe a little weight in the buttstock would help? mmmmm maybe an idea me thinks.
 
Why, FN P90, of course. :)

Seriously though.. If she's sold on a semi (you there sheslinger? :) ) and needs the weight close in, don't go with the Mini. That was the first thing that struck me when I went from Mini-14 to 16" HBAR AR -- the balance feels much closer into the body with it. **for me**the Mini felt handier to carry, and shouldered quicker, but once shouldered and carried in a "low ready" type posture -- the AR was much handier.

If she's not 100% sold on a semi, I'd suggest at least picking up and handling one of the Ruger compact M77MkIIs.. with that skinny little barrel and slightly porky laminate stock, it's like the barrel ain't hardly there when you bring it to shoulder.
And even in .243 it'll outwhomp the AR. :D

-K
 
Dear God in Heavan and all that is Holy please make the FN P90 legal to own in my lifetime. Please.:eek: :banghead:

I love that thing. Never shot a real one but have held several and even if they are an over glorified .22 magnum I still love it. Heck I like my .22 magnum so where do I sign. Truely ranks as one of my ultimate cool guns.

I am pretty sure she is set on a semi and she really has a thing for evil and black. I dunno what happend. We are at a gun store and I am looking at this really nice SIG P232 with beautiful custom wood grips and it's classic lines thinking to myself, now there is a nice looking gun. I am checking out some nice over and under shotguns with wood that is just gorgeous.

My lovely wife on the other hand is over at the GUN NUT EVIL SECTION:D checking out the evil and black stuff. I guess I am a little sexist deep down because I keep thinking she should be picking up a nice classic revolver with wood grips or a nicely grained bolt action or shotgun. I am just not used to woman going for short black shotguns and evil black rifles. It is very cool mind you, just odd to me. I hope nobody takes offense to this as I am not saying that she is not supposed to be looking at EBRs it is just surprising, that's all.

Course what do I know, I'm the one who owns the Ladysmith.:what:
 
you and that lady smith...then again i do like shooting those small things. and yes sheslinger is cool like that, the black guns in the family are all hers :D

Seriously what bout that Bretta Storm? Or a KelTec break apart thingy. Plentiful glock mags in either caliber you get it in. If its just goign to be a little plinking fun gun....might be an idea. get a pistol caliber carbine. heck ill let her shoot the hipoint all she wants....may not be much but it is fun and pretty light for as big as that action is.

How about a tempoary fix in the time being. Something like a walking stick with a gun rest on it perfect for her size. What i was going to do is what dad did for his walking stick but i was goign to modify it for a mono pod for my mosin-nagant. Go get a hoe or an old one from friend/family/lows. Cut the blade off, but leave about an inch of the metal part that bends out ot the hoe. Sharpen to a semi blunt point. Then hack off the top to the proper hight and screw in one of those rubber padded hammer hanngers or bicycle hangers the u shaped with a lag bolt on it into the top. A nice padded U to put the gun in.... And makes a decen walking stick, or garbage pick up tool when you are feeling nice. May give her a way to shoot from a standing position a little more confortable for about 20 bucks. Until you decide something better.
 
Have her use a small amount of weight on a bar and work out. Add a little bit of muscle and a lot of muscle tone. It doesn't take much to make an amazing amount of improvement.

Worked for me...

Art
 
Have you tried an AR with the M4 barrel profile? Unlike most commercial 16" tubes, this one isn't "heavy" under the handguards. Every single female that has shot it has found success with it.

Also, try doing what El Tejon recommended to me: workout with your weapon. Literally do things like curls, presses, etc. with it. You'll be surprised how well this breeds familiarity with a firearm as well as building decent strength for shooting.
 
hrmm... given the applications (short range shooting, possible HD).. the Storm does sound like a good idea Intune.. I've not seen one though around here -- are they on the market already back that way? As chunky as that stock looks, and with the mag in the grip instead of hanging down out front, I'd think the weight would balance pretty well back, yes?

Finally, one little trick I picked up once upon a time for shooting offhand -- make a deliberate short "pass" over the target, timing the trigger pull to right when you cover where you want the round to go. Might not be as precise as sandbagging it, but it's easier (or at least is for me) than constantly fighting yourself and inertia trying to pull the muzzle onto "the right place" for long enough to release the shot.

-K
 
The AR-180B is a heckuva nice gun, IMO. Light, well balanced, and in general feels better to me than the AR-15 types. Plus, it takes abundant and cheap M16 mags.

I have an older Mini-14 which I love. However, good[\b] standard capacity mags are not as easy to get as with the AR-15/AR-180B, and are much more expensive. With good mags, it's a very reliable gun, but accuracy isn't as good as ARs without a bit of tuning.
 
Chinese and Romanian SKS are pretty light, but especially the Chinese since there is no bayo. I find them very easy to shoot standing. Of course, they are nowhere near as accurate as a good AR.

Mosin Nagant 91/59 carbines are light and accurate too. These are similar to an M-44 but also, no bayonette. 7.62x54R surplus is very cheap and plentyful. It makes a hearty boom too! :cool:
 
I have an AR15 in the lightweight configuration. I had a standard Bushmaster 16 upper turned down by KKF. Now you can get the same thing from Bushmaster as a factory gun.
I would recommend not using the A2 stock if you go with an AR. It is too long for an adult male. Go with at least an A1 stock. I have an entry stock on my lightweight carbine.
Evil and black: I can't really think of anything that is really light on the front end that is evil and black. I have several pistol caliber carbines but they are not really all that light other than the Colt lightweight sporter in 9mm (another AR15). I can't really see buying that; the mags are VERY expensive and why settle for a 9mm carbine when you can have the same thing in 5.56 ?
 
AR type like 444 says with a lightweight barrel and an Aluminum freefloat tube with an ace lightweight stock would be great for an auto setup.

An of the following for bolts: win Compact Classic, Ruger Lightweight, Rem Mod 7, Browning Micro hunter.

Real lightweight a NEF Superlite Handirifle.
 
C15R97Swbgrnd.jpg

Suggested Retail Price: $ 1192.00_
under 5.5 pounds with a loaded 10 round magazine
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/AZ-c15r97s.asp
 
Thanks for all the observations and advice.

GF that Carbon 15 would be great.........if I had ever actually seen one that functioned. :D

Thanks
Chris
 
Bushmaster has an ultralite setup available with the "stubby" stock. I don't know how tall SheSlinger is, but I considered the option for my wife until I accepted that she will NEVER like AR's as much as I do, so I'm just going to get her a shotgun.

If the stubby with it's 10.5" LOP is too short, you can add either a 1" buttpad or 1" spacer between the stock and rifle, or Bushmaster has a 1.75" rifle pad that brings it out to CAR length. It's not "quick change", but it's extremely LOP adjustable.

If you don't like the spaghetti barrels, then there's the M4 as mentioned, or the Armalite carbine bbls, which are "medium" weight. My 12 year old son thinks my fluted 14.5" HBAR is "too heavy", but my buddy's 16" M4 profile bbl was "not so bad". I've got an Armalite barrel on order.

And on the other hand, if you DO go with the M17s, there's always Kurt's Kustom, as I've mentioned twice lately :) You can even add AR sights after some of the mods he offers.

If this rifle is for HD though, I REALLY like the idea of having interchangeable mags (I'm thinking you have an AR?)... That would be a HUGE reason for me to lean heavily towards an AR configuration rather than a similar rifle like the Mini or AK, or the CX4 storm (unless she totes a Beretta).

I can hear it now...
"She - I got 17 more zombies coming up the back way, and I'm down to my last mag!" "Here you go C... I've got plenty left, since I've dropped all 76 of my zombies with one shot each" ;)
 
I've been reading some really good reviews on the new Bushy built Carbon15s. Even the Pistol is now running well.

If you have the cash, that might be a very good option. I myself still think the pistol is 'damn spiffy'. :)

Black Snowman just picked up a M17. Got to shoot a few rounds over the weekend. It does balance very well, and in person, those things are freaky tiny! hard to comprehend that there is a 21 inch barrel there...

Trigger was odd, but not bad, you'll get used to it. Accuracy was just fine, you can hit what you aim at. We were seeing 4 inch groups at 100 yards with a dot sight. (Wolf ammo, still breaking the gun in, etc)

It's not my cup of tea, but I wouldn't 'kick it out of the gun safe' to paraphrase a more derogatory comment... ;)
 
Ya, I like my M17. Which is good because I paid for it ;) I think it's excellent for unsuported or improvised shooting where it's long trigger pull and mag hanging down doesn't affect so much of the overall accuracy of the gun.

However the sights do still suck. My dot scope works well for the distances I plan to shoot it out to and in a pinch I can always use the plastic sights as backup. Eventually I'd like to mount weaver rails all over it for a light, removable iron sights and the dot scope. With good irons I might even swap out for an ACOG clone or something else with some magnifcation.

As for the heat, unless you just really enjoy emptying magazine after magazine I don't think it's a major issue. I put 85 rounds through mine over the course of a couple hours, about 20 at a time. and it never got more than warm. I think you'd have to rapidly run through about 60-90 rounds for it to get uncomfortable. I'm going to test that theory next time I'm at an unsuperivsed range ;)
 
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