Homcide is quite often a no brainer. No thought is given to risk, morality, consequences, etc. It just happens, and happens fast in may cases (first degree is another thing). The fear of someone else with a gun is not universally paramont; some might stop and be afraid, others might be seeing red and just continue shooting because the have a gun in their hand. To a rational person, the threat of a gun or retaliation has some merit, but because there are all types, in all frames of mind, then the results vary. I, for one, am on the verge of zero tolerance for those with zero tolerance of guns. I think I feel as 2ndAmd feels. I feel citizens that have fear and problems with exposed guns (NOT being pointed at them) seriously need education on what the Constitution is all about. Police departments when receiving calls about " a man with a gun" should be required to ask "is he pointing it at or shooting someone". Mere presence of a gun should not be a crime, but, for example, combine it with robbing a liquor store, well, that is another matter......
What caliber and make does Ayoob carry these days?
- Thread starter Dr_2_B
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I'm afraid that's just not a practical suggestion. In the first place, you're simply never going to get everyone that educated with respect to firearms. And in the second place, while 9 times out of 10 there is no actual crime being committed, there is the tenth time. Occasionally, rare though it is, some knucklehead exposes a gun, sometimes deliberately, and sometimes unintentionally, and does turn out to be either intent on committing a crime, or someone, like a convicted felon, who is prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. Police simply have no option but to respond to the call and deal with it as the situation demands, and that's not going to change.
There is no way for a 911 operator to be able to assess the threat over the phone. They have to respond.
As far as the rest, I have to agree with Billy Shears. CC is just tactically a better option. I want the element of surprise on my side. That's a huge advantage.
All of these doomsday scenarios which include, but are not limited to, people freaking out at the sight of a gun, bad guys attacking armed people and police going Rodney King on lawful gun owners are pure fantasy.
How do I know that?
Because many states have open carry. As folks wander around, say, Arizona nobody is screaming and running to the cops. Bad guys are not targeting open carry people. Police are not calling the SWAT team even when an armed person walks into a bank.
You guys sound like the anti gunners every time new carry legislation is proposed. And like the "brady bunch" you are totally wrong.
Where the rubber hits the road, open carry is not that big of a thing. It is disconcerting that "gun people" act like it is.
How do I know that?
Because many states have open carry. As folks wander around, say, Arizona nobody is screaming and running to the cops. Bad guys are not targeting open carry people. Police are not calling the SWAT team even when an armed person walks into a bank.
You guys sound like the anti gunners every time new carry legislation is proposed. And like the "brady bunch" you are totally wrong.
Where the rubber hits the road, open carry is not that big of a thing. It is disconcerting that "gun people" act like it is.
i
Who???
I have seen him mentioned here a couple times but whats the deal with this guy.
Never mind I just googled him. Seems to have a pretty extensive background in firearms.
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I think Billy is missing the point. I am not arguing the tactical merits of open carry. I am stating that the analogy that Mas wrote with likening open carry of a holstered handgun to buggery is not valid.
Holstered handgun = two gay men holding hands in public. Some people may disagree with this action, they are aware that it exists. But, it is not offensive enough to call the cops.
Buggery = handgun in hand and pointing it at people. They are both dangerous and lewd. A detriment to the public wellbeing in most people's eyes.
A holstered handgun does not live upto to the level of disgust of buggery. Mas is very wrong in his anology.
But I enjoy reading his other topics on guns. He just does NOT have the open carry issue in the right light.
Again:
Holster handgun = two gay men holding hands in public.
Buggery = handgun in hand and pointing it at people.
Holstered handgun wil never = buggery. In this regard I feel I have made my point. Almost every reasonable person I know would agree with me that a holstered handgun does NOT = buggery in the level of public disgust.
I feel you are very very wrong about this issue.
Holstered handgun = two gay men holding hands in public. Some people may disagree with this action, they are aware that it exists. But, it is not offensive enough to call the cops.
Buggery = handgun in hand and pointing it at people. They are both dangerous and lewd. A detriment to the public wellbeing in most people's eyes.
A holstered handgun does not live upto to the level of disgust of buggery. Mas is very wrong in his anology.
But I enjoy reading his other topics on guns. He just does NOT have the open carry issue in the right light.
Again:
Holster handgun = two gay men holding hands in public.
Buggery = handgun in hand and pointing it at people.
Holstered handgun wil never = buggery. In this regard I feel I have made my point. Almost every reasonable person I know would agree with me that a holstered handgun does NOT = buggery in the level of public disgust.
I feel you are very very wrong about this issue.
Ric
Member
Yeah some of the respondents seem to think I'm some kinda worshiper or something. Nah. I like to keep up with him though because (#1) his journalistic skills are better than anyone else who writes this stuff and (#2) he's really on top of the latest information.
If you read the initial post, the question really had to do with seeing whether he was open to changing his mind when new information came out and specifically I wanted to know exactly when he had changed his mind on the .40 and 10mm.
Ayoob is a good writer, lots of common sense and not a lot of BS.
He is good at what he does.
And I still say that he, like us, probably has several carry guns. It depends on his wardrobe and situation.
He is good at what he does.
And I still say that he, like us, probably has several carry guns. It depends on his wardrobe and situation.
Ultimately, I agree with what Guillermo said above.
If you think you're more likely to be attacked while OCing, prove it. You can't because it doesn't happen outside the LEO world in statistically significant numbers. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find even one case in which an OCer was targeted for being armed.
As for the antis, it depends on your state. People OCing in Seattle will get a worse reaction than in Albuquerque.
If you think you're more likely to be attacked while OCing, prove it. You can't because it doesn't happen outside the LEO world in statistically significant numbers. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find even one case in which an OCer was targeted for being armed.
As for the antis, it depends on your state. People OCing in Seattle will get a worse reaction than in Albuquerque.
+1 on the "mas will make an impression in person". Criminy folks, ease up on the guy; he has indeed done a *lot* for firearms training (and I can personally vouch for his teaching).
FWEIW, he did once remark that he tends to rotate platforms every training tour/cycle just to keep his hand in with all the common types of carry weapon. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but he certainly does need to be proficient anything that a student might come to class with.
Again, FWIW
FWEIW, he did once remark that he tends to rotate platforms every training tour/cycle just to keep his hand in with all the common types of carry weapon. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but he certainly does need to be proficient anything that a student might come to class with.
Again, FWIW
It's been my observation that Mas owns many guns and carries many different guns for different situations and preferences. However, he seems to most often have the Ruger P345 on his hip.
What does it matter anyway? You have to find the gun/guns that work for you. I have a lot of respect for the man's skill and am still learning a lot from his books and hope to one day learn from his LFI.
I like to read his reviews on certain firearms but, I sure am not going to carry something just because Mas is carrying it. What a bunch of groupies! LOL!
What does it matter anyway? You have to find the gun/guns that work for you. I have a lot of respect for the man's skill and am still learning a lot from his books and hope to one day learn from his LFI.
I like to read his reviews on certain firearms but, I sure am not going to carry something just because Mas is carrying it. What a bunch of groupies! LOL!
I don't mean to continue with the hi-jacking, but I'm in the mood to post for once. I open carry, because I do not have a permit. I have been doing so every waking moment for the past five months. I've had one sporting goods store mishandle my weapon while trying to "safe" it, and I've had one walmart employee ask me to leave. Otherwise, every normal citizen that has asked about it (there have been six or seven), has been very polite and curious. For the record, the place in which I live isn't very rural anymore. What I will say, is that I have seen a shady homeless looking individual walk through a gas station door then turn right back around and leave after locking eyes with it. I can't state why he did, for a fact, but this is enough to make me feel good about being open. I would like the option of being concealed, but won't think twice about going open either.
I will admit to learning a lot from Mas over the years and will be forever grateful for his help on a Research Paper I did about 19 years ago.
With all that said, I at one time owned an Ayoob/Cannon Street L because it was a Massad Ayoob design. That gun is long gone, traded to pay bills. I read Mas' reviews, but pay more attention to his court room teachings than I do what gun is best. I don't think I've ever seen him come right out and say, "This is the perfect gun."
Granted, he has come close. Heck, I bought the Street L based upon his writing.
He also like the 1911, as do I. I own a Glock, and for what it is, it's OK. I do have one gun that I've recently found that for me is what I consider to be the best concealed carry gun. I think Mas would be the first to say that no one gun will be perfect for everyone, but some are better at being OK for everyone than others.
With all that said I still think the OP, as others have stated, should PM Mas and ask him. I myself carry something I've not seen him write about, but I did hear that my using one at a recent L.F.I. class has him interested in one. That's the High Power.
Of course he's probably written about those too, I just haven't found it yet. Heck, he's probably carried one a time or two. He can carry whatever he wants. Some people switch guns often. Others, like myself, prefer to carry the same gun or platform for a legnth of time.
The man makes shooting look too easy. He has lots of range time and makes the unnatural act of shooting a handgun appear natural. In short, he is a joy to watch shoot.
OK, sorry for the rant. I just wanted to get my $0.02 in since it seemed like everybody else had.
BikerRN
With all that said, I at one time owned an Ayoob/Cannon Street L because it was a Massad Ayoob design. That gun is long gone, traded to pay bills. I read Mas' reviews, but pay more attention to his court room teachings than I do what gun is best. I don't think I've ever seen him come right out and say, "This is the perfect gun."
Granted, he has come close. Heck, I bought the Street L based upon his writing.
He also like the 1911, as do I. I own a Glock, and for what it is, it's OK. I do have one gun that I've recently found that for me is what I consider to be the best concealed carry gun. I think Mas would be the first to say that no one gun will be perfect for everyone, but some are better at being OK for everyone than others.With all that said I still think the OP, as others have stated, should PM Mas and ask him. I myself carry something I've not seen him write about, but I did hear that my using one at a recent L.F.I. class has him interested in one.
That's the High Power.Of course he's probably written about those too, I just haven't found it yet. Heck, he's probably carried one a time or two. He can carry whatever he wants. Some people switch guns often. Others, like myself, prefer to carry the same gun or platform for a legnth of time.
The man makes shooting look too easy. He has lots of range time and makes the unnatural act of shooting a handgun appear natural. In short, he is a joy to watch shoot.
OK, sorry for the rant. I just wanted to get my $0.02 in since it seemed like everybody else had.
BikerRN
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BikerRN,
"I will admit to learning a lot from Mas over the years..."
+1.
i feel that reading his book
"In The Gravest Extreme"
should be a pre-req for first time firearms owners.
gunnie
"I will admit to learning a lot from Mas over the years..."
+1.
i feel that reading his book
"In The Gravest Extreme"
should be a pre-req for first time firearms owners.
gunnie
Thanks to the participant who flagged me to come over here this morning.
My apologies for the late response. Just got home from a month on the road teaching, and haven't had much time for forum-roaming.
Department gun is still Ruger P345, and that's what I carry when working for them. We're still very happy with it.
As some have noted, I'm not a good role model for others because of the constant gun-changing. Part of that is testing carry guns as part of my job, and part of it is the need to stay current with the various designs.
Each of us needs to find what works for us in terms of hand to gun fit, size vis-a-vis concealability and dress code, experience, habituation, and related factors. For the last month, covering several states, I was accompanied by my Significant Other/Adult Supervisor, who was legal to carry most of those places. Since she prefers a Glock 9mm, it made sense for me to bring a couple of those too, allowing us to work out of the same pool of ammo, magazines, holsters, etc. During the leg of the journey that required flying commercially, that also allowed us to have more ammo with us (commercial aircraft ammo weight limit). My guns were G17 primary/G26 backup, and carry load for both of us was Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+.
On the open carry issue, I actually take a middle ground. I think every state should allow open carry, for two reasons. First, it's a hedge against a false accusation of intimidating others if the wind blows the coat open and reveals the concealed firearm. Second, in many jurisdictions it can take months to get a permit, and a non-shooter who becomes a stalking victim needs some option to take a crash course in what they need to know, and be armed while waiting for the CCW permit to come in. However, I feel that flamboyant open carry for its own sake -- "Look at me, I want to make a statement!" -- is likely to make more enemies than friends among the general voting populace. The tactical arguments on open carry versus CCW have been hashed out well here and there's little I could add to that.
Finally, Parisite commented, "I'll put my money on Jerry (Miculek) with a revolver than Ayoob with...anything."
+1 to that. I've shot against Jerry many times, and he generally kicks my butt. I only take consolation in the fact that he kicks most everybody else's, too.
Best to all,
Mas
My apologies for the late response. Just got home from a month on the road teaching, and haven't had much time for forum-roaming.
Department gun is still Ruger P345, and that's what I carry when working for them. We're still very happy with it.
As some have noted, I'm not a good role model for others because of the constant gun-changing. Part of that is testing carry guns as part of my job, and part of it is the need to stay current with the various designs.
Each of us needs to find what works for us in terms of hand to gun fit, size vis-a-vis concealability and dress code, experience, habituation, and related factors. For the last month, covering several states, I was accompanied by my Significant Other/Adult Supervisor, who was legal to carry most of those places. Since she prefers a Glock 9mm, it made sense for me to bring a couple of those too, allowing us to work out of the same pool of ammo, magazines, holsters, etc. During the leg of the journey that required flying commercially, that also allowed us to have more ammo with us (commercial aircraft ammo weight limit). My guns were G17 primary/G26 backup, and carry load for both of us was Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+.
On the open carry issue, I actually take a middle ground. I think every state should allow open carry, for two reasons. First, it's a hedge against a false accusation of intimidating others if the wind blows the coat open and reveals the concealed firearm. Second, in many jurisdictions it can take months to get a permit, and a non-shooter who becomes a stalking victim needs some option to take a crash course in what they need to know, and be armed while waiting for the CCW permit to come in. However, I feel that flamboyant open carry for its own sake -- "Look at me, I want to make a statement!" -- is likely to make more enemies than friends among the general voting populace. The tactical arguments on open carry versus CCW have been hashed out well here and there's little I could add to that.
Finally, Parisite commented, "I'll put my money on Jerry (Miculek) with a revolver than Ayoob with...anything."
+1 to that. I've shot against Jerry many times, and he generally kicks my butt. I only take consolation in the fact that he kicks most everybody else's, too.
Best to all,
Mas
amd6547
Member
amd6547, I still have that gun (Jarvis Custom Beretta 92FS with Jarvis 6" barrel Magna-Ported, and dedicated SureFire light semi-permanently attached). Excellent pistol.
These days, my bedside handgun is generally whatever I was wearing for primary that day, with a light slipped onto the rail before bed if the gun's design is amenable.
These days, my bedside handgun is generally whatever I was wearing for primary that day, with a light slipped onto the rail before bed if the gun's design is amenable.
Thanks very much for chiming in and stopping the rampant speculation. Thanks also for the thoughtful, detailed response, as usual. When we are both carrying, my "Adult Supervisor" and I already use the same caliber, too. I'll have to inform her of her new job title, though.
Massad Ayoob is his own primary weapon.....he carries Chuck Norris in an ankle holster as backup, but he's never had to use him....
j/k
I have the greatest respect for his work and writings....he's one I rank up there with Col. Cooper, Walt Rauch, and Michael Bane.....
j/kI have the greatest respect for his work and writings....he's one I rank up there with Col. Cooper, Walt Rauch, and Michael Bane.....
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