What Caliber for double duty?

Which CALIBER for double duty?

  • .38special +P

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • 9mm

    Votes: 29 28.7%

  • .40S&W

    Votes: 20 19.8%

  • .45ACP

    Votes: 49 48.5%
  • Total voters
    101
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A

Alan Fud

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What caliber would be a good choice for a gun if you wanted it to:
  1. Be concealable
  2. Effective against both 2-legged creatures as well as at least semi-effective against four-legged creatures (Fox, wolf, mountain lion, bear, etc.).
Note: I purposely left the .357magnum off the list because I can't effectively shoot a J-frame loaded with hot .357magnum loads and I can't effective conceal a K-frame.
 
Last edited:
I'm with Nightcrawler. As soon as you put bear on your list nothing in the poll is suitable (and I think I'd want as much power as I could get against mountain lion too, just in case).

For both concealability (and assuming some degree of controlability) plus ability against large and dangerous animals there are only two choices I can think of:

4" medium-frame .357mag. Short enough barrel for relatively easy concealability and long enough to get some velocity out of the round.

4" Taurus Tracker in .41mag. Medium frame revolver so you could carry and conceal it and .41mag is a good, powerful round for woods use.

Here on the east coast with the relatively lightweight black bears you get then maybe a 10mm will be ok if you really want an auto caliber.


Edit:
Oh, seeing your note that you can't conceal a K-frame then my suggestion is two guns for carry. One for concealment and one for woods use. The only other suggestion is the Taurus 415. It is a medium frame gun but it has only a 2" barrel so you may be ok concealing it (though with a 2" ported barrel you'll lose a lot of the .41mag velocity/power).
 
I voted for the .45 ACP, and here's why:

With the correct load and proper shot placement,
the .45 ACP works well on two legged perp's.
Plus the fact, I'm not expecting to run into any of the
four legged variety; during a routine tour of duty!:D :uhoh:

* FootNote- if I go looking for trouble from the four
legged variety, I would arm myself with at least a
.357 magnum; if not a .44 magnum.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
10mm

I originally voted for 9mm, but then saw the "bear" in your post!!
The gun/caliber you want is the Glock 20 with the 6" hunting barrel, loaded with any of the hot 200gr loadings!!! That will fit the bill for BOTH two and four legged critters!! If you want to conceal the beast, get the G29!!! ;)

Hey, if it's good enough for the 'Nuge, it's good enough for you!! :D
 
Okay ... maybe take the bear and the mountain lion out of the picture
rolleye-.gif
 
Then why would you need to be shooting at foxes and wolves? They pretty much stay invisible when people are around.
 
Perzactly! If you 'need' to shoot a fox, then it is probably rabid and any of those calibers will work. However, I've heard that a rabid animal has a little more 'life' in them, so shot placement is even more important.

All of the calibers are easily concealable. It depends entirely on the handgun itself and the holster system, etc.
 
I'm not a country boy. I didn't grow up in the big city but I always had city water / sewer -- NOT well water and we always had street lights where we lived.

I recently moved to the hills of PA where my nearest neighbor is more than a football field length away. The next house after that is barely visible. There are no street lights and at night everything is pitch black for as far as the eye can see.

We've had a number of people come to the house (guy delivering the 'fridge, cable guy, telephone guy, etc.) and I started up conversations with most of them and this is what I was able to put together ...

Coyotes are VERY common in this area and some can reach up to 70 pounds. Wolves are not that common although some have been spotted along with foxes. Black bear and even mountain lion, while not common, have been spotted from time to time in the area.

That said/learned, I figured that I better adjust my CCW to take into consideration four-legged creatures as well as two-legged ones. I've got compact 9mm's, .45ACP's, .40S&W's, .38/.357's, etc. I normally carry based on my mode of dress. If deep concealment is required, I carry a snubbie. If I'm carrying in a holster, it's likely an all-steel compact 1911. If it's in a waist band, then it's an alloy frame compact 9mm. Etc.

However, if one of these calibers is better suited against four legged attackers, then I can modify my mode of dress without too much difficulty if it buys me better protection.

That is the goal behind this thread. To learn from others who might have more knowledge in this area than I do, which CALIBER might be better suited against any or all of the four legged creatures that I mentioned.

Took out the garbage last week. The walk from my house to the curb, took me out into the darkness ... as in almost pitch black. As I was walking there with the garbage bag listening to all of these strange animal noises, I was wondering if I might be actually walking toward wolf or a bear or a mountain lion or whatever without even knowing about it.

I was armed with my Para C7.45LDA (shown on the right below) with eight rounds of .45ACP ...
f108.jpg

... and the thought kept running through my head whether or not I might be better armed with eight rounds of 9mm from my Smith & Wesson 3913TSW (shown on the left above) since both guns are about the same size but the 9mm penetrates better and MAYBE that is what would be needed instead of the .45ACP or maybe I might be better off with one of my guns chambered for .40S&W instead.

I know that ultimately, grabbing my S&W 1006 with ten rounds of 10mm would give me better protection but if I want to stick with my compact CCW's that I normally carry, which CALIBER is the best choice?
 
With respect to the bear, I would make the controvercial statement that your either have to get bigger, like .44 magnum, or smaller, like 7.62 Tokarev. While a small, fast ball round may have a little less energy than say .45acp, it at least stands a greater chance of penetrating a fair amount in a tough skinned animal.

I am by no means advocating hunting bear with a .30 caliber pistol. I just think a small diameter bullet moving at high velocity has a better chance than a wide heavy bullet of similar power and recoil.

It's even possible that hot FMJ 9mm or .357 Sig would work better than .45 on a bear. There's no such thing as overpenetration when the animal is four feet wide.
 
Mr. Fud, you may need a good flashlight more than a handgun.

i, too, live way out with no close neighbors. critters see in the dark, i do not. so, before stepping off the porch i sweep the area with a light, with handgun in holster. if there is a disturbance, i have a million cp spotlight in one hand and a 41/44 mag in the other. bear or lion, i'm going back in the house for some real firepower.

actually, stepping on a snake or one of my bug eating yard toads is more of a cnocern.

BTW, you have a pair of beauties there. i confess to envy. either should take care of anything but the big stuff.

back on track, i voted for the .45 as i have considerable faith in that round and the 1911. sometimes tho, it is just not big enough.
 
OK, getting the situation I have thought about a few ideas (usual disclaimer, this is purely theoretical, I don't live in a carry state and haven't actually carried and I'm not a hunter, so grain of salt and all that)...

I'm guessing that the deep carry is when you are likely to be in a more populated area. Don't change that, animals usually try to avoid people and you probably won't encounter too many in town.

As for coyotes I've talked to people who hunt them with .22s so I doubt that any caliber suitable for self-defense will be insufficient.

If bear or mountain lion are a possibility they will be more likely when on your property, or outside town. How about changing the belt gun to a K-frame sized .41mag (Taurus Tracker) or .357mag (tons of choices). Under a concealment garment you'll probably be ok and when taking out the trash you can just open carry in the summer since you'll be on your own property, right.

Most likely, don't change unless you really want to. You are probably less likely to have a negative close encounter with the animal kingdom than you are a self-defense situation (not based on any stats, just my gut feeling) so stay with what you know. If you are really uncomfortable and need something for the animals for your comfort, then follow my above suggestions. Of course, you can always do the 9mm, you're probably better off against a bear w/ 9mm +P+ or even +P than with .45acp (more penatration), but it wouldn't be my first choice.
 
I was leaning towards 9mm, but when I got to mountain lion & bear I'd want something w/ a little more girth and since you don't have 10mm on the list, I'd say 45acp.
 
Hmm, tough call for the calibers listed in a compact gun. I'm sceptical of any of those calibers living up to their potential in a 2"-3" barrel, even including the .357. IMO, 9mm and .357 depend on velocity too much, 45ACP is already going slow to begin with so I'd have to bet on the compromise caliber: .40 S&W

Usually it's not the barrel length that's hard to conceal, it's the handgrip size. If you were talking full size barrel, I'd go with 45ACP or .357 in a 4" to 5".
 
Hi Alan.....long time no see.

I be little, 5'5, 10 stone; and have no problem concealing 2 1/2" Smith Model 19. K frame.

for it to be effective tool, one should practice a LOT with em. Every conceivable position and grip etc etc.

There is a gent in New Mexico that likes bear meat. He uses a snub 686 to harvest blackies. (He even crazier than I )

Sam
 
People that don't think foxes are a threat to human life have never been chased by a pack of them. There is nothing more scary than a wild pack of foxes on your tail. They are blood thursty buggers! The only thing more deadly than a pack of foxes is a gang of bald eagles! Most people don't realize how deadly foxes and eagles can be. Just because they never kill anyone is no reason not to shoot them on sight.:rolleyes:

You are far more likely to be attacked by a dog than a person and you are far more likely to be attacked by a person than a bear or a wolf yet everyone wants to know what handgun is best for stopping a bear.:rolleyes: How come I never see threads that ask what handgun is best for shooting a crazed Pit Bull? Many people are attacked by crazed Pit Bulls but only a few are ever attacked by bears and wolves.

I think a CCW should be chosen for the greatest threat. The greatest threat is always the most common threat not the most scary threat.

What gun would be best for stopping a Pit Bull attack? I think a .44spl snubbie or 3" bbl revolver would be perfect. I think a Charter Arms Pit Bull would be perfect.:D
 
the way i look at it, bears have really big heads. Tho only reason to need 10mm or big magnums is if you wanted to keep the head as a trophy so went for body shots. In self defence? Why? I have some 9's and .45's that i'm sure will penetrate bear skull. As for mountain lion and wolves, i don't get why people think that ammo they would trust to drop a 250 lb crackhead (9, 40, 45) would not be suitable against a 125 lb mountain lion or 70lb wolf.

Now, if i was being attacked by bears weekly, i'd probably be packing a 10mm and some texas ammunition 200grain JHP. Tex ammo are the only people who load the 10mm properly, that is, hot. Their 200 grainers push 700ftlbs, whereas the corbon is somewhere in the 500's, unless you buy their hunting ammo, which is cast lead, and not suitable for self defence.

I love 10mm as an all purpose ammo. But for your situation, a quality gun with quality ammo in 9, 40, or 45 will do the trick.
 
1. Shooting a bear in the head with a 9mm. .40 or .45 is a bad idea. The angle is bad and the bone is thick. It will not penetrate unless you get very lucky.

2. I have never heard of a 70lb coyote. That's big for a wolf.

3. Of everything you listed, I'd be much more afraid of feral dogs which can get up to 70lbs and larger.

4. If you want to stick with a reasonably sized autopistol that will do what you want, you need a 10mm.
 
my 9mm self-defence load will penetrate 3/4" bulletproof glass and will crack ballistic steel plates on occasion. Bear skull isn't a problem, john. :D
 
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