What Caliber for Enfield No1 Mk3*

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WALKERs210

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I posted a few weeks back that I might wind up with this rifle, Enfield No1 Mk3*. Well today made the deal and for the most part I am very pleased except for one minor detail. Stopped at local gun shop for .303 rounds, got home and the rounds would not chamber at all. Somewhere in the past I read that some weapons that found their way to Israel would be re chambered to .308 and a unside U would be stamped on weapon. This one had the U, went back to gun shop and we started trial and error to find a shell that would chamber, no luck. I have done more research and have found every thing from .303, .308, 7.62x51 and a few others including a .410. I have found two proof marks, one is Crown with GRI under crown, below that was stamped 1948, No1 Mk3*. The second marking is a Crown with the GRI under that was crossed flags. Long story short I have just about exhausted all I can think of to identify this carbine. So "HELP"
 
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Check to see if there is a cartridge case is broken off in the chamber. This occasionally happens when cases are reloaded too many times. Not likely the gun was made in a cartridge other than .303 British. A broken case remover will take it out, or shove a 20 gauge bore brush up into the chamber and using a cleaning rod from the muzzle tap it out along with the broken shell. Any good gunsmith should be able to do this in about 3 minutes and check out the gun for other potential problems.
 
Never really gave a though about a broken shell case, it will be the next thing to do. Only reason I wanted the rifle was because in the last few years it has become harder to find an Enfield that has not been sporterized (bubbaed)
 
that one uses a standard enfield mag so it is not one of the indians made in 7.62 nato(not 308).

I know that there are 3 3 very common conversions for them.
1. 45ACP those use a special magazine block that allows use of 1911 mags so this is not one of them.

2. 7.62x39. these normally use mag blocks that allow use of AK mags but a halfassed gunsmith may have just put a chamber sleeve in and called it good and it's a single feed x39.

3. 45/70. uses the stock mags(but I think the mag capacity changes from 10 to 7 rounds but don't quote me on that) and requires very little modification to no 4s though no 1s are not recommended for the conversion. is your bore way oversized for a 30 cal?

EDIT: your gun looks very short so it was probably cut down to make it into a "tanker". your stock looks like a replacement and your bolt looks way too shiny to be original which makes me think that this was just a parts rifle that was built in somebody's garage.
 
Ok, no broken shell case, 30 cal bullet at muzzle is a snug fit not super tight or super loose. At gun shop we tried a 7.62x39 but it darn near dropped out of sight in chamber. We attempted using .308, 8mm and even 7.62 x 54R. I did see on one of searches that some were chambered for 7.62x 51 mm. Tomorrow I will go to one of the best gunsmiths in area if I can get there before the Alabama football game comes on. Yes in ALABAMA the Crimson Tide over rules all other functions.
 
That rifle is not an Ishapore No.2A, all of which were built as rifles in 7.62x51, not rechambered.

It looks like a No.1 SMLE chopped by Navy Arms into a "Tanker" carbine back in the 1990s. It should be chambered for .303 British. If .303 Brit won't chamber and there's nothing stuck in the chamber, take it to a gunsmith for a chamber cast to see if it's been rebarreled.
 
That rifle started life as a standard .303 SMLE made at Ishapore in India (not Israel) but somewhere along the way it was shortened, possibly by Navy Arms for sale as a so-called "tanker carbine." It sounds like it was rechambered along the way. Why, and what for, and by whom, and to what cartridge, I couldn't say.

However...

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FIRE 7.62x51 OR .308 WINCHESTER IN THIS RIFLE!!!!!!!!!

If you do, you will destroy it (and possibly your face) in short order. The rifles Ishapore built for 7.62x51 started production in 1963 and were a good deal stronger than the .303 rifles built at Ishapore prior to this date. The .303 action cannot handle the higher pressures of the 7.62x51.

Be very, very careful with this rifle.
 
Be very, very careful with this rifle.
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My days of "Hey Watch This" are way gone and I like to think that along the way I have got a little smarter. I have learned that if I can't work thru a problem I have no shame what so ever in asking, that's what I'm doing here. At one time there was an ex Marine that had a gun shop and if there was ever a Gun Guru he was it. He survived combat in Korea and two tours in Nam only to finally loosing his battle to cancer last year. But I do know one man that is almost as good as he was and God willing and the Creek don't rise I will have it in his hands tomorrow. I do appreciate all the input and help I have received here.
 
ok well the only other thing I could think of is if 308 doesn't fit and 7.62x39 is too small then you either have 30-30 OR... during the chopping process someone messed with the barrel and the headspacing is now off. at this point I am willing to guess that it is infact 303 brit but now you need to fix the head spacing...
 
Take it apart, under the wood just forward the chamber if it is .303 it will say so.............
 
The .303 action cannot handle the higher pressures of the 7.62x51.
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FWIW, I've seen several Enfields converted to 8x57 in Turkey - Long Lees and SMLEs - and they can handle that pressure fine.

As for this particular rifle, I'll be really curious to hear what it winds up being. It's definitely originally an Ishapore .303, and was definitely chopped down by Navy Arms or a similar group. That should means it's either still in .303 or would be marked with the new chambering. Have you taken the wood off to look for markings on the barrel?
 
After more scanning I located the Importers info, it was very light and only part of it was legible. What I find was N.A. ---- then last part was N.J. which leads to believe it is from NAVY ARMS. I do really like the rifle as I said before because it has wood all the way like it was meant to be. I was looking at Brownell's for the casting material and was trying to remember a material that we used in the Navy back in the late 60's. We would make a mold of a table spoon, cast using this material, when the spoon was put in a coffee cup of hot coffee the spoon would dissolve making the waitress almost panic (yes we fest up) it was a lot of fun . I have hesitated disassembling due to the lug on bolt does not line up for a simple straight pull out. That is something I will look into later. Again to all that have posted suggestions and thoughts I do thank everyone.
 
If you do, you will destroy it (and possibly your face) in short order. The rifles Ishapore built for 7.62x51 started production in 1963 and were a good deal stronger than the .303 rifles built at Ishapore prior to this date. The .303 action cannot handle the higher pressures of the 7.62x51.
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The No 1 action cannot support the bolt thrust of a 308. The No 4 action was marginal and from threads I have read, frequently failed 308 proof.

According to a book I have the Ishapore rifles were made of more advanced alloys to handle the thrust.

FWIW, I've seen several Enfields converted to 8x57 in Turkey - Long Lees and SMLEs - and they can handle that pressure fine
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These are dangerous cartridge conversions in any Lee Enfield.

"Monkey see, monkey do" is the common level of technical understanding in 2nd world countries and American High Schools. Also, safety standards in Islamic countries are different from the West. I have had buds come back from Saudia and tell me these guys don’t believe in safety devices, like blade guards on table saws, because if an accident happens, “it was written”.

You can test if it is God’s will that your head and hand get removed by an inappropriate cartridge conversion, but that is your choice.

I would leave it in 303 Brit as that cartridge is a fine cartridge, will feed and extract without issues. Something is wrong with your rifle if they don't.
 
I'm thinking severe head space issue. Only a skilled smith can find out the truth though. Good luck and keep us posted.


R
 
I have spent a great deal of time discussing in person and on the phone about this issue and so far no luck. I talked with the gentleman I got it from and right off the bat offered to trade back and even offered and additional cash to cover cost of my research time. I have only met this man a few months back and have so far expected he would be a man of his word. Well he is, He is going back to person he bought it from because the first one swore up and down it did fire and was quite accurate also. So for the near future it is going to be an issue that will be worked out by another, not that I can't do research it was his feeling that it should not have been necessary for me to do it since he was presenting it as a fully functioning and firing rifle. As I posted earlier I sure did like the look of the Enfield with full wood on it, who knows it might be a simple fix then the price most likely will double or triple (way my luck runs). Thanks to all
 
303 rebarrel?

Be aware that over here around ww2 military calibers for civilians were banned for a while so some lithgows were rebarreled 303-22, 303-25, 303-270. even heard of a bloke doing a 303-308 using a used, remachined 7.62 nato barrel off an Omark target rifle.

whats your bore size?
 
I think the material you are thinking of is galium. Popular dissolving spoon trick. I don't know where to get any but I think cerrosafe will be easier to get and use. Pour a chamber cast, take some measurements, then if it's completely ruined or chambered in some oddball cartridge, take the guy up on his offer and return the rifle.
 
FWIW, a "U" with a Broad Arrow inside it, stamped on the receiver ring, denotes South African ownership ("Union of South Africa"). A lot of No 4's -- including U.S.-made No 4's -- with that marking were imported into the U.S. I don't see why Mk III's couldn't have been in South Africa as well.

The shortening was done aftermarket. Whoever did the shortening may have used a new, shorter barrel. It's possible that they never got around to finish-chambering the barrel after it was installed.

To remove the bolt, pull it all the way to the rear and pull up on the bolt head to release it from the spring that holds it in the raceway. Then pull the trigger and pull the bolt straight out of the receiver.
 
WALKERs210 said:
303TOM, I had an idea that bolt removal was not or should not be a long drawn out issue. After watching the video I felt like the village idiot. Thanks
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That`s cool, they are pretty simple......The Enfield is the one I have several of, (hence the 303tom)..........Good luck with yours.............
 
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