What can a .45acp do at 200 yards?

[DeepSouth]

I have put many 200 gr SWC rounds (900fps) through both sides of an empty freon can at 200 yards.

I recently shot a propane tank, the small kind in a gas grill, with my 243 and it penetrated the front and barley dented the back. And that was at +/- 50 yards. It's hard to believe a 45 would do it, I might have to try it sometime.

 

[tipoc]

Slow and heavy rounds like the 45 acp have lousy long range trajectories. It will still pack enough punch to kill you at that range, but it will have more drop than a trebuchet.

Some truth to that but maybe some exaggeration as well. I recall that Elmer Keith had the sights on some of this long range shooters marked off for 100 and 200 yards with lines on the sights. He would raise the front sight up and align the lines with the rear sight to aim. He could hit what he intended to. With the right set of sights on a 1911 say a shooter could zero a gun for 200 yards as Keith did with the .44 Spl.

The 10mm auto does pretty well at longer ranges for a pistol. If I aim for the top of the head on a steel torso silhouette at 200 yards, I can hit it in the lower belly area.

Let's compare some. The figures here are taken from Bob Forker's book:

Bullet drop at 200 yards from a 10mm CCI TMJ 200 gr. bullet is -72.1". Mid range trajectory is 19.1".

For a 200 gr. 45acp load from CCI drop at 200 yds. is -87.1". Mid range trajectory is 23.4".

Now bullet drop means that if you held the gun perfectly perpendicular to the earth (which no one does in practice) and shot a round it would drop so much in such and such a distance. The figure disregards things like wind resistence, etc.

Mid range trajectory is where you have a gun zeroed at, say 50 yards, how much higher above the line of sight the bullet will be at 25 yards (it's mid range). I believe this gives a fella a pretty good idea or the actual working curve of the trajectory.

While the 45 has more of a curve to it than the .357 it ain't as much as many think I believe.

tipoc

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

You guys have to get away from the computer, take your pistol outdoors, and crank off some shots at 100 yards, then move out to 200. Put a 5 gal paint can against a good backstop, and SEE how much holdover you need. If you can shoot an orange at 25 yards, you are going to be able to hit the 5 gal can now and then...enough to get your bearings on holdover. It just isn't that hard, and even rocket science needs a few lunar landings before we actually KNOW all the gobbledygook to be true.

 

[Publius1688]

I am familiar with a case from Louisiana, about fifteen years ago.
Some 'gentlemen' were drinking and target shooting, with a .45 auto, in their back yard. No backstop save a copse of woods. One of the men fired well over target, clearing the woods, and the round managed to travel unhindered in excess of five hundred yards. It terminated in an elderly woman's head--she had been sitting on the back porch shelling butterbeans. She sustained head trauma, but the round didn't penetrate the brain pan. She passed away several days later. As I recall her life support was terminated.
The guy plead down to negligent homicide. I think he did four years.

 

[Drail]

Freon cans are made from much thinner steel than propane tanks. I was sure the bullet would be in the can. But at 200 and 300 yards a hit on the steel ram would ring like a bell. The holdover with a .45 ACP at that range is pretty ridiculous. We were aiming maybe 20 feet or more above the target to get it down there. What was funny was that you could fire the shot and reholster before the bullet got there. Then 3 or 4 seconds later the sound would make it back to you.

 

[tipoc]

Consider the front sight on most factory 1911s, picture it in your mind. Now think of the front sight on a good target revolver. The nice Patridge ones. Which do you think would be easier to sight on at longer distance? The sights on the M1917 revolver were easier to sight on at long distance than GI sights which wern't made for it. Sights make a difference.

With proper sights shooting the 45 acp at 100 or 200 yards is do able. But if a person can't hit something at 25 yards with consistantcy well...

tipoc

 

[76shuvlinoff]

The bet that it would "bounce off" a 2x4 at 200 yards would be a very bad one. In the bowling pin comparison, a better statement would be "The projectile can deflect off the unstable, curved surface of bowling pins." Bowling pins are made of hard maple, and they are not fixed and unstable targets. They are designed to bobble and fall when struck, which is what prevents almost all rounds from penetrating them - even larger magnums. A "square" hit with fmj can penetrate, but this is very rare.

On this note I know from personal experience that at 30 ft with the proper (lucky?) shot placement a .357 lead round nose can come straight back from a bowling pin, hit you right square on the ankle bone and make you sit down and rub it until your eyes stop watering. That was 27 years ago and I have not shot at a bowling pin since.

Sorta changes you mind about shooting bowling pins, at least not up close and personal. The sobs can shoot back.

 

[Deanimator]

Penetrate a 55ga. drum, and that's VERY slow 200gr LSWCs. I think I used something on the order of 3.5-3.8gr. of Bullseye.

When I was in college, my best friend and I used to go out to the clay pits outside of town and shoot our handguns (his Browning High Power and my Series 70 Colt) at an oil drum on a sand spit next to a pond. Once I got the range, I could consistently hit the drum with that ammunition. I shot from the recumbent position. Elevation was about on par with a 40mm grenade launcher. You could see the bullets going down range.

 

[Pappy109]

Here's Hickok at 230 with a stock .40 Glock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd3kF6LHz4

 

[Desertscout]

Moved to General Handgun

 

[NWCP]

Just having plugged some numbers into a ballistic calculation program I came up with a pretty close estimate. A 230gr .45ACP FMJ with a muzzle velocity of 850fps zeroed to 100 yards will have a drop of -54.5", still traveling at 732fps with 274 ft-lbs of energy. Not sure how much penetration that would give you when it smacks the 2x4, but I wouldn't want to get thumped with it.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

In my previous post i said the drop would be around 3 feet...that was a mistake, I looked at the MOA line (39 MOA)...in inches its 82.2 inches if sighted in for 25 yards.

 

[ccsniper]

I don't know about 200 yards, but how about 420 yards?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0x-ujM5xtk

(not me)

 

[tipoc]

A fun, useful and pretty much well done video.

tipoc

 

[yelohamr]

When I was a SWAT sniper with the Military Police at Camp Pendleton, 2 of us took the snipers from a SO. CAL. police SWAT team to a range on Pendleton. While they were shooting from 100 yds., myself and another Marine were shooting at a lifesize metal human target at 500 yds. with our .45s. You could fire a shot, reholster and then hear the bullet clang off the target.
I won't mention the police dept., as they were using 8X10 photos of the city council as targets.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I had a semiauto .45 ACP Tommy gun. I'd press the trigger, it'd go "fwoomp!" instead of "bang", and the bullet took its time reaching the target 100 yds away. I had my fun with it and then sold it to a friend.

yelohamr that wouldn't happen to be O'side PD, would it? Was Melba "toll bridge" Bishop still on the city council?

 

[Browns Fan]

It would take a heck of a lot of Kentucky windage!

 

[yelohamr]

Not OPD. It was a PD from L.A. County. Toll bridge? If it's named after Melba, it should be a "Troll" bridge.

 

[yelohamr]

"It would take a heck of a lot of Kentucky windage! "

It took about 3 shots to get on target. IIRC I elevated about 35 degrees or so.

 

[xXxplosive]

I realize this is not about a .45 Cal. but just making a point here.

Was standing next to a fella some years ago who shot at a running deer and hit it with a 12ga. Remington slug at 232 paces along a Right Of Way / timber cut. The slug hit the deer right in the boilerroom and penetrated both lungs and exited............I know cause I walked off the distance.

Point is, do not discount projectiles fired at long distances.......you could be in for a surprise.

 

[cavman]

p30 Volume II of Jerry Kunhhausen's .45 Auto Series:

He quote his sources of "early ordnance tests".

25 yards 6" penetration of white pine

250 yards 4" penetration of white pine. energy remaining: 666fps and 226 foot pounds

 

[481]

Playing with the terminal ballistics software that I have, I get the following results:

- a 9mm 115 gr. FMJ @ 1155 fps from the muzzle is still moving at 825.30 fps/173.90 fpe at 200m (est. pen.: 20.1")

- a 9mm 124 gr. FMJ @ 1120 fps from the muzzle is still moving at 855.50 fps/201.50 fpe at 200m (est. pen.: 22.3")

- a 9mm 147 gr. FMJ @ 975 fps from the muzzle is still moving at 817.90 fps/218.30 fpe at 200m (est. pen.: 25.6")

- a .45ACP 230 gr. FMJ @ 825 fps from the muzzle is still moving at 677.00 fps/234.00 fpe at 200m (est. pen.: 21.4")


Each selection is quite capable of penetrating 20.00 - 25.50+ inches of calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin at these velocities (in parenthesis above) and would certainly offer the potential for "through-and-through" penetration (lethal threat) of anyone whom they might strike in either "frontal" or "lateral mid-line" strikes.

Let it suffice to say that I would not want to be standing downrange of any of these incoming rounds.

 

[Quoheleth]

Point is, do not discount projectiles fired at long distances.......you could be in for a surprise.

I remember I was 7. We were attending a wedding and left to go to the reception. After we arrived, a buzz passed among the guests that one of the matrons/maids of honor had been shot by a .22. The bullet barely broke the skin, but it did, and as it was a bullet, she had to go to the hospital, do the paperwork, etc. Turns out a boy was shooting a target with a large round bale as a backstop. He missed and the bullet traveled somewhere in the 1 mile range before striking the woman. She survived with an interesting scar and story.

With the .45, it is interesting and fun to touch a round off and do a slow count to see how long it takes it to travel the 100 or 200 yards to the target. It's especially fun if you've been shooting magnums or other hot-rod loads. The difference almost makes you laugh.

Q

 

[PigButtons]

I went to Kuhnhausen:
Volume II, pg 30 Maximum range______1640 yds
Penetration white pine 25 yds___________6 in
Penetration white pine 250 yds__________4 in

Guess at 200 yds it'll still be quite lethal.