What causes failure to go into battery in 1911s?

[thunderbyrd]

i own 4 1911s. kimber .45, Ria .45, SA Ronin 9mm. at this point the RIA has 250-300 rds through it, kimber probably has about 150-200, the ronin which is the best shooting, most reliable of the three, probably has 300 rds through it. (my other 1911 is a 22 and it doesn't have the battery problem.) all 3 three of these will occasionally fail to go into battery: rounds fires, the slide comes back and stops about quarter inch from where it's supposed to be. the SA and Ria were bought brand new. the kimber was used and i don't know how much it was shot but i think very little.

i keep reading about "500 round break-in" for 1911s and i don't know if that is true or if it's a myth. but what actually causes this? i don't think i've ever limp wristed.

 

[thunderbyrd]

i need to add that cleaning and lubing isn't the problem, i clean them most of the time, 9 out of ten, that i've shot them.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

A mag from the factory that sits a bit high in the frame, can. A change in COAL and not checking mag allowance (ammo conflict). Lack of proper/necessary grip control could. Damaged mag. Return spring past its service life. Any out of spec ammo with wide case mouth dimensions (plunk test check). A lot of things. Regards

 

[Howland937]

When it stops short of battery, does it stick or can you pull the slide back with ease and clear it? Have you tried bumping (carefully-finger away from the trigger) the slide forward when it stops short? Out of spec rounds will typically lock one up where the slide doesn't wanna go forward or rearward. Lost slide velocity will stop forward but move freely rearward.
Lost slide velocity is typically due to drag somewhere and can be due to many things. Thinking there were some stickies around that showed how to check things like mags, slide lock, etc for indication of interference.

Guns that new aren't typically spring related. If you're using a high, firm grip (and riding the safety preferably so you're not causing it to rotate and drag the slide) then grip issues can also be eliminated.

 

[thunderbyrd]

on the kimber and SA, the slide can easily be shoved forward, on the RIA, sometimes easy, sometimes it's hard to push it. i had a failure with it awhile back where i couldn't shove it forward, then couldn't get the magazine out of the gun. i'm pretty fed up with that pistol and want to move it along.

 

[JTQ]

i need to add that cleaning and lubing isn't the problem, i clean them most of the time, 9 out of ten, that i've shot them.

Since it is the easiest thing for the user to fix, lubrication is the first thing I recommend. Cleaning is over rated, but lubrication, in this era of "5 drops of lube" is often the issue with 1911's. Most folks who are new to 1911's, and for that matter, new to metal framed guns, significantly under lube these guns.

 

[JTQ]

i keep reading about "500 round break-in" for 1911s and i don't know if that is true or if it's a myth.

There may be a kernel of truth to that, but if so, some of that involves breaking in the shooter as they familiarize themselves with how the gun works.

 

[railroader]

What kind of ammo are you using? Are they reloads? If they are that could be part of problem since all three guns are having issues.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

I have two RIA 1911 one 9mm one .4SW. When they were brand new the first 50 rounds did as the op said FTF. Just took shooting them enough for them to wear in.

 

[nettlle]

In my mind something that is going to "wear in" in 500 rounds is probably going to "wear out" pretty quickly. As far as feeding dirty mags can cause this, extractor tension, and cartridge overall length to name a few.

 

[Howland937]

on the kimber and SA, the slide can easily be shoved forward, on the RIA, sometimes easy, sometimes it's hard to push it. i had a failure with it awhile back where i couldn't shove it forward, then couldn't get the magazine out of the gun. i'm pretty fed up with that pistol and want to move it along.

So I'd probably go after one at a time. From your description with the SA and Kimber, it sounds like something is applying the brakes on the slide.
Whichever has the fewest number of malfunctions would theoretically need the smallest amount of repair. A little more lube than what you feel is enough wont hurt, just don't store it dripping wet.

Do you by chance ride the safety? I've seen more than one occasion where a thumb under the safety would cause enough upward pressure to make the lever contact the slide unintentionally.

Softer lead bullets seem to have more friction when contacting the feed ramp. Polishing without removing material could help. Try shooting jacketed RN bullets exclusively for a bit to see how it acts.

I'm getting ready to send a guy a couple of 38 Super mags to try with his SA 9mm...it's having feeding issues and I'm hoping the lack of spacer in the back helps the slide maintain forward momentum.

 

[justdino]

I’ve had this problem off and on with 3 Springfield Armory 1911s.

Got to checking the Norma bulk ammo I bought and could feel a ridge on some cartridges at the mouth. OAL was fine, but that lip was preventing the round from fully chambering.Learned my lesson about checking ammo while loading magazines, and no more problem.

Good luck.

 

[JTQ]

There may be a kernel of truth to that, but if so, some of that involves breaking in the shooter as they familiarize themselves with how the gun works.

Do you by chance ride the safety? I've seen more than one occasion where a thumb under the safety would cause enough upward pressure to make the lever contact the slide unintentionally.

How to grip a pistol, with Doug Koenig. Note at the :50 mark where his strong hand thumb goes.

 

[thunderbyrd]

What kind of ammo are you using? Are they reloads? If they are that could be part of problem since all three guns are having issues.

i am using ONLY Armscore 230 FMJ in the .45s. i tried some hollowpoints in both .45s and they wouldn't work at all. (but i can throw any kind of garbage at my walther colt 1911-22 and it eats them all.) the ammo in the 9mm has been pretty varied, but it's all 115, that's all i can find.

 

[Howland937]

where his strong hand thumb goes

Exactly.

 

[JTQ]

... the ammo in the 9mm has been pretty varied, but it's all 115, that's all i can find.

In the generic, in 9mm, the 115gr training ammo is typically the weakest ammo manufacturers produce. If you're going to have a cycling problem, regardless of the pistol, expect it from 115gr training ammo.

Another consideration - the 1911 slide is the same, whether it is a 9mm, .38 Super, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 Auto. You've got to have ammo that can reliably drive the slide, and since the 1911 slide was designed to handle .45 Auto, weak 9mm ammo often doesn't do it. Anybody shoot 9mm out of their G21? No, because the G21 is quite a bit bigger than the G17 slide, and the G21 slide is designed for .45 Auto. Since the 1911 is chambered in so many different cartridges, we ask a lot of the gun. We often need to make some adjustments to get all those different calibers to work in the gun.

 

[drband]

1911s should be run wet with lube on the rails. Failure to go into battery has many causes… lack of lube is #1. Next, check mags. Stock mags are notorious for feeding issues— take them apart, clean, check for burrs, lube them (I prefer a dry lube). Ammo can be a cause— try a few different ammo choices. Not all FMJ feed the same. Troubleshoot the above and you’ll likely solve your issue.

 

[243winxb]

A taper crimp issue or a build up of residue in the front of the chamber.

9mm & 45acp headspace on the case mouth.

 

[cfullgraf]

The guns should work with 230 gn RN bullets.

Feeding can be impeded by imperfections in the ammunition. If hand loaded ammunition, insufficient reduction of the case mouth flair frequently causes feeding problems.

I’d get some domestic 230 RN ammunition to try in your pistol. I do not consider Amscore good ammunition as an indicator.

The main recoil spring is usually a 16 lb spring. Experimenting with an 18 lb spring and a 20 lb spring might give some indications of problems with feeding. If the gun goes into battery with the higher spring rate springs, it would be you have an ammunition issue restricting feeding.

The higher spring rate recoil springs is not a “fix” just a troubleshooting aide. If the gun goes into battery with the higher spring rate spring, you have an ammunition or maybe a magazine issue.

Hollow points and truncated cone bullets can have feeding issues. There are things to do to improve feeding but you need some expert guidance.

Walt Kuleck has a couple books on working on the 1911. A good resource to have.

 

[cfullgraf]

To add to my previous post, like I said, it has always been easy to get any 1911 to feed 230 RN ammunition well ( or lighter bullets the mimic 230 RN bullets).

Recently, I bought a 1911 45 ACP Gold Cup pistol and the feed ramp is marked different from the standard 230 RN feed ramp.

I never got my 1911s to feed SWC bullets well until the new Gold Cup. Not that I could not modify the factory feed ramp, I was just resistant to make changes that would not work and require replacement of expensive parts. One can “bubba” alot of 1911 parts without proper knowledge.

I’m a 1911 junkie but by no means an expert of all things 1911. Do your research. Modify carefully.

 

[mljdeckard]

Most of the issues I have encountered were due to magazines, a poorly tuned extractor, or a combination of both. My Kimber has been perfect for nearly 20 years. My Para-Ordnance only likes factory ammo, not my handloads. My RIA (Double-stack 9mm/.22 TCM combo) had ftf issues. I sent it to RIA, they made it better, but not perfect. I had a local Smith tune and install a Wilson Combat Bulletproof extractor, and now it runs 9mm perfectly. And the TCM...ok, as long as the magazine is downloaded.

For single-stacks I use Wilson 47D mags. The Kimber runs all magazines I have tried really well, including cold war era junk-drawer magazines, but I just prefer to skip the trial and error.

 

[trackskippy]

Welcome to the aggravating world of the 1911's.

With those round counts, and the way they are building 1911's these days, Id say those guns probably arent even close to being broke in yet.

Id shoot a case or so through each of them first and then start trying to diagnose things.

 

[drband]

Agree. Check the extractor hook. Rounds should slide up under the hook without obstruction.

If the extractor “clocks” then a new firing pin stop is indicated as well.

You’ve gotten a lot of replies to sort through. I would suggest working in this order:
Lube
Magazines/ammo
Extractor hook geometry
Extractor “clocking”/firing pin stop fit

It’s highly unlikely that your pistol cannot easily be made to work 100% with a little care. Unfortunately, they don’t all come from the factory that way (any brand).

 

[Coyote3855]

Because the problem occurs with four different pistols in two calibers, I have to suspect operator issues. Grip or riding the slide. Shouldn't require a case of ammo to "break in." I have several 1911s bought new and used. None needed 1000 rounds to work correctly.

 

[trackskippy]

They shouldnt require any break in, but thats not the reality of them. If SIG, Glock, ect, can give you a gun that works 99.9% right out of the box, without a break in required, why cant the 1911 makers?

At this point, Ive owned close to 50 1911's of different makes, and ALL of them needed some work to be reasonably reliable with all types of ammo. And some of those guns never actually got there either. The only guns I was comfortable enough to carry, were Colts and GI guns, and all of them had some work done to them as well.

If you have a 1911 that worked 99.9% out of the box without fiddling, consider yourself very lucky.