I think all us folks should care, very much so in fact. The bump stocks went and many folks said who cares we'll keep binary triggers and braces and all the fun stuff we do like. But that's the shtick, it isn't one and done for them. It's the same as eating elephant bite by bite , keep at it and soon you end up with it all gone. That's how it works, piece by piece and soon we end up with it all gone and ask what happened? We should care about all of it if we are firearms enthusiasts.
What do you think ATF will do about Binary triggers
- Thread starter castile
- Start date
I was today years old when I learned what a binary trigger did. I’ve seen them in ads and thought they let you set two different trigger pull weights (something I think sounds marginally useful). *the more you know*
The NFA workarounds always feel a bit risky as an investment. It meets the letter of the law but violates the spirit of the law. It’s an executive order away from illegal.
Now the NFA and follow-ones are full of archaic parts that do little or nothing to advance public safety too (suppressors, prohibitions on new registered machine guns, length restrictions on European handgun imports, to name a few).
The NFA workarounds always feel a bit risky as an investment. It meets the letter of the law but violates the spirit of the law. It’s an executive order away from illegal.
Now the NFA and follow-ones are full of archaic parts that do little or nothing to advance public safety too (suppressors, prohibitions on new registered machine guns, length restrictions on European handgun imports, to name a few).
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
Right on, thanks for making that point.
Indeed, that's another part of their tactics. Select something that's relatively rare and not many care about, and legislate it away. Nibble nibble.
Oh, and there's another thing... create vast tracts of firearms-free lands like Monuments, Parks, Primitive Areas, Preserves... stuff everybody thinks is good and admirable and noble and earth-friendly....so who could object?
Nibble.
"Ah, Terry, you're just being paranoid."
Non-clinical paranoia (A) is a survival trait, (B) is frequently a result of experience ("once burned, twice shy"), and (C) is a kind of General George S. Patton's strategic thinking.
Nibble.
Terry, 230RN
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DustyGmt
Member
I have always, always wanted to shoot a couple FA firearms. Absent some crazy stroke of good fortune like a winning lotto ticket or a bag full of money, it's never gonna happen. It's not even realistic financially to even take one step in that direction like buying an M16 in the first place, but feeding it would also be quite expensive.
I'm certain that it would lose its appeal in not much time at all and even if it was a standard function completely unencumbered by Reagan Era bs and every AR I bought so far had a FA function I'd pretty likely rarely set the selector to fire FA, but I feel like it would be awesome to try it out.
I shot a "binary" trigger once, not really even sure I know the difference between a binary and an FRT, I actually thought they were the same, but the one I shot was 1 out the tube on pull and 1 out the tube on release. I didn't care for it.....
I'm certain that it would lose its appeal in not much time at all and even if it was a standard function completely unencumbered by Reagan Era bs and every AR I bought so far had a FA function I'd pretty likely rarely set the selector to fire FA, but I feel like it would be awesome to try it out.
I shot a "binary" trigger once, not really even sure I know the difference between a binary and an FRT, I actually thought they were the same, but the one I shot was 1 out the tube on pull and 1 out the tube on release. I didn't care for it.....
Guns will be a casualty of the other political issues circling the drain now. Its going to be a hammer pretty soon no need for nibbles.
Yep never figured out why spend money on a trigger. This is really simple...
AlexanderA
Member
We're getting too involved in the small details. Look at the big picture. The root cause of all these problems ("bump stocks," "binary triggers," "braces") is the NFA itself. For one thing, it doesn't accomplish what it set out to accomplish, which was to reduce crime. We need to have a vigorous national debate on whether this law should remain on the books, since it has clearly outlived its usefulness.
Even the pro-gun side, for the most part, is not questioning the legitimacy of the NFA itself.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
To do it from the shoulder, where you can aim….a little. Just makes it slightly more controllable.
So far as the OP theirs no doubt in my mind binary triggers will be in the ATF’s cross hairs sooner or later, likely after one is used in a public shooting of some kind. Not if, but when, is the question imo.
The Last Outlaw
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Do you honestly believe the NFA was created to reduce crime?
Ok try this...
As a 68 Mustang owner, I don't understand all the interest in workarounds such as fuel injection and gull wings, auto parking,etc when....
Just go to LeMans / closest race course, rent a sports car at a range, and satisfy your curiosity. Then you won't need to waste your time thereafter.
What is commonly referred to as ''work arounds'' is actually normal, usual, and expected TECHNOLOGY changes IMHO. NOT imho though, is these tech changes / keeping with the times are normal for everything from baking bread to medical advances, computers vs pony express mail, bottled pop vs fantastic plastic, etc. etc. Such advances are so normal that they are socially accepted, legally accepted.
EDIT 918am; I am going to demonstrate a tech change tomorrow, an OPEN FIRE cookout vs the pellet grill
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AlexanderA
Member
That was the ostensible purpose. The argument is that it failed to achieve its ostensible purpose. Hidden purposes (which may or may not be true) shade off into conspiracy theories, which are not helpful in the political dialogue.
wally
Member
This whole can of worms is why I was miffed the NRA rolled over on the Bump Stock ban. Any semi auto can be bump-fired if your grip is sloppy enough, lays the foundation for outlawing semi-autos. Haven't binary triggers been on some high end skeet guns for a long time?
AlexanderA
Member
None of the "changes" that we're talking about here would exist, were it not for the artificial restrictions of the NFA. I'd venture to say that you wouldn't have bump stocks and binary triggers if even merely the Hughes Amendment was repealed. I never heard of such things before 1986, when you could buy a new full-automatic M16 for less than $1,000.
Once again, the antigunners have been shafted by the unintended consequences of their actions. The Hughes Amendment has actually increased the interest in machine guns, first by raising the prices to astronomical levels, and then by fostering a whole new market for workarounds. Bottom line is that machine guns are more desirable, and (practically speaking) there are more of them. (That is, simulated machine guns.)
AlexanderA
Member
That pales in comparison to the NRA's role in urging Reagan to sign FOPA with the Hughes Amendment in it. If Reagan had vetoed it, a clean McClure-Volkmer could have been passed later. Instead, we are stuck with the Hughes Amendment seemingly forever. That was the point where I became bitterly disappointed in the NRA.
Styx
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- 3,282
As I recall, a whole bunch of FUDD gun owners, people who didn't own one, gun owners (simular to those in this thread) who thought they where stupid and worthless, those who owned full autos, and President Donald J Trump all wanted the precedent that banned bumpstocks to be set. Now because that the precedent has been set and because of all the aforementioned who have similar mindsets like many members in this current threads is the reason behind the ATF banning 80% receivers, arm braces, binary triggers, and once they get through with those it will be the Mossberg Shockwave, bullpups, and then they'll find something else. They can just classify anything they wish whenever they wish.
It's not the NRA but rather President Trump and Benedict Arnold selfish and self centered gun owners who only care about stuff they're interested in being banned... Guess what, it's just a matter of time before they get around to your "stuff." The more complacent you are the faster they'll get to going after YOU!
A whole lot of gun owners had the NRA's back, but now I guess everyone wants to use the NRA as scapegoats. The logic many gun owners and the NRA had was to sacrifice bumpstocks so that an AWB wouldn't pass Congress after the Vegas shooting. Trump just was always antigun his entire life, so he just wanted them banned regardless just like he was for AWB, "high capacity" bans, red flag laws, and universal background checks.
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The Last Outlaw
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I would argue that the original intent was to create a national gun registry, if it would have passed in its original form that is exactly what it would have been. The original version of the NFA included taxes and registration on all firearms except rifles and shotguns with 16” barrels. They did this because they knew they couldn’t do an outright ban. I would say that looking at the historical perspective is exactly what we need to do in the “political dialogue”, as you put it. Just shows that the goal all along has been the disarmament of the populace. They just are more brazen about it now than in the past, probably because they have been successfully chipping away at our 2A rights since at least 1934.
AlexanderA
Member
Remember that we're talking about 1934. Total disarmament was no more feasible then than it is now. Less so, because there hadn't yet been all the mass shootings plus the instant social media to magnify them.
The Last Outlaw
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It was originally meant to economically put out of reach for average Americans all firearms except “ordinary rifles and shotguns”. Sounds like the first attempt at a mass ban to me.
N555
Member
Problem with binary is anyone can make one.
AlexanderA
Member
And that didn't get very far, did it? The mass ban failed when handguns were removed from the proposed NFA. And remember, that was the rubber stamp New Deal Congress that refused to go along.
There were mass shooting back then too. I *think* the impetuous was the St. Valentine’s Day massacre. There were a few other high profile ones in HI and IL in the 1920’s with over 20 casualties.
I have a Franklin binary trigger in my PC charger and it was fun... the first few times out. It made me realize that there isn't really much practical use for a binary trigger or full auto other than defending off a human wave attack or just wanting to mow down a crowd of people. If I loose the trigger it won't be then end of the world for me. It did cure my itch for a full auto class III firearm though.
The Last Outlaw
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No, it didn’t. Still shows that disarmament has always been the goal, which is what I was posting about. They didn’t get handguns on the list, but all the things that did make the list were legal and mostly affordable for the populace. This changed that, and started us down the long winding path to where we are now. Nibble, nibble, nibble, one day we look up and most of our 2A rights are gone. Which, wether you want to believe or not, has always been the goal.
EIB0879
Member
I shot various selective fire/machineguns/suppressed weapons on the taxpayer's dime (thank you) and I really enjoyed it. If I want a full auto fix my BIL has a few legal ones.
I do believe the NFA should be repealed.
I do believe the NFA should be repealed.
