What does it mean to say a gun has "soul"?

What does it mean? It has absolutely nothing to do with the word "soul" as we think of it in the spiritual sense. It's simply a term, that for lack of a better way to articulate a firearm's visual (and sentimental) appeal to a true firearms aficionado, we use to differentiate between guns that we might view as a work of art and fine design over a utilitarian tool that we might view as ugly and of lesser value to us.

Of course objects (weapons, tools) have no soul. But we can say one might be possessed of "soul" and most of us would understand the context in which we use the term.

To me it speaks to whether or not the firearm displays artistic touches, i.e., polished bluing, expert engraving, hand-cut fleur de lis pattern checkering, a finely turned Schnabel fore end or Mannlicher stock, iconic design with classic lines (like a Pininfarina or Fioravanti designed Ferrari) that become iconic -- to me, like a Purdey Side by Side, Browning Superposed, Winchester M70 Featherweight, Mauser 1898, Winchester 1873, Colt Single Action Army, Colt 1911, S&W Model 27, Browning High Power, original CZ-75, Beretta 92.

English/Turkish/French walnut with a beautiful grain... bluing so well done you can see your reflection in it... Gold or silver inlays are always cool. Discreet and perfectly distinct roll marks if any... no "billboards," lawyer warnings, ugly logos, no unnecessary serrations, perforations, ball cuts, lightening cuts, ports, and for gosh sakes, we don't need a pistol's manufacturer's name in 3/4" letters on the slide, we know what we have.

If a firearm doesn't speak to me with any artistic appeal and isn't an example of excellent craftsmanship, maching, handwork, fit and finish... it has no soul.

​

 
Each of us, here, are similar--we like firearms. Yet, each of us here is also unique.

So, what is beautiful/ugly, practical/impractical, soul-less/soulful will each be different.

That's complicated, especially for those new to "our community."

But, there's good news, too--we live in what could be said to be a 'golden age' in firearms. There are so many arms out there, each that have a niche, that have both fans and detractors. But, we can each find a Goldilocks to suit ourselves.

Unless we "short circuit" that process because 'we' are worried about what others think of our choices.

I get called "boomer" a lot--that's apt, I was born before 1965--the negative connotations? Yeah, whatever. My EDC is a SIG 365X with a Romeo Zero RDS. Doe that have soul? Dunno. It's as beloved as my Klein Lineman pliers. Do either of those have the character of my Stanley 20oz framing hammer? I can't tell you. Does my 1915 Colt 1903 have character? I think so. But, does it have "soul"? Dunno. Fun to shoot, pain to field strip. So, character.
 
Here's what it means to me:

A gun with no soul is purely utilitarian. A gun with soul is one that has something beyond just its value as a tool. Maybe history, maybe aesthetic--basically it stirs something in a person.

These things tend to be very subjective. A gun that is just a tool to one person might seem to have soul to another person who has a different view of aesthetics, or who knows about the history of the gun, or maybe has experience with another similar firearm.

I think a lot of people say a gun has no soul when they mean to say that they can't find anything in particular to criticize about the gun but they don't like it for some reason.
 
Character.

For some of us they often are exemplified by .308/7.62 NATO or M2 Ball ‘battle rifles’ and sometimes certain modern clones.

You might look up on Netflix “The Siege of Jadotville”(novice "neutral" Irish soldiers vs. French mercenaries etc) which features both the Enfield 4/ no. 2 and the FAL: “Right Arm of the…”.

True story with character in action, very realistic depictions. This movie has generated many discussions over on FALfiles. It might also have inspired some builds of various components (I have neither the confidence nor skill, quite frankly).
= a jillion variations of all-black or wood & metal "soul".

www.youtube.com

The Siege of Jadotville | Official Trailer [HD] | Netflix

THE SIEGE OF JADOTVILLE tells the true story of the 1961 siege of a 150-member Irish U.N. battalion under Commander Patrick Quinlan by 3,000 Congolese troops...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Filmed in South Africa🇿🇦 (ie "Belgian Congo") and Dublin Ireland🇮🇪 .
 
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mcb said:
So in the thread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/who-doesn’t-own-like-ar’s.926044/ we wandered on the notion that AR's do not have "soul" and conversely it was implied that a blue steel and wood guns (or similar) does.

In the resulting discussion I realized I don't think I understand what is commonly meant by that saying, "a gun has soul". At a high level it seems that older more traditional models made from older material and manufacturing process have more "soul" than modern designs made from more modern materials and modern methods? The engineer in me bristles at that definition if it's to be the right one. Though I am happy to be corrected.

What the gun is or what it is made from has very little to do with it in my personal interpretation of it having "soul" or not. To me when someone says a gun has soul, what I think of is its a well used gun that brings with it good memories or at least interesting tales of its use in the owners hands (and possibly those that used it before them). To me "soul" is not a measure of the quality or manufacturing process used to create the firearm but what that firearm has been used for and the resulting history it has been part of, told or not.

IMHO a cheap mass produced gun that has seen heavy use and been on many adventures with it's owner has far more "soul" than a finely crafted custom gun that has only ever sat in a gun cabinet and gone on the rare trip to the range.

Happy to hear what you think of when someone say a gun has "soul."
Click to expand...
I was one of the people in that thread to say that the AR had no soul, as well as glocks and other polymer strikerfired pistols. Basically black guns.

I think I get what you're saying and agree. While my G17 looks pretty rough, stippled by me, scraped and scuffed, looks well used and worn from nearly 15 years of use. I could definitely say that it has acquired some soul on a personal level. To anybody else though it's just a glock like any other. It doesn't have the beauty or luster of a nice walnut and blued winchester (insert model here). Those guns just have inherent soul, smooth buttery action, nice rich bluing and nicely figured walnut stock.

The black guns come out of the box looking like nothing but a mass produced plastic/metal tool made for a job, not a finely crafted instrument of heirloom quality. Doesn't make me like em any less, I have alot more of those than anything else.


But I get what you're saying
 
They don't have a soul but I take it to mean a blued steel gun had a craftsman physically put his hands on that gun and put labor and dedication into making it what it is. A Glock gets churned out with no individual care.

That may or may not matter to you.
 
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I don't think about it as much as a gun having a "soul", as much as it having a history, a story to tell that unfortunately is usually lost to time. Some guns have a well-documented and historically relevant story,
some guns have stories that are hinted at, have only clues to guide you, can only be guessed and are lost to time forever,
and some guns have no story.
The former is usually very expensive, the latter is usually pretty boring, and the middle is where my imagination runs wild and my preferences lay
 
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Maybe "soul" is not the word we're looking for here. What we're really discussing is the aura, the sum of intangibles that are associated with the gun. That could vary with each individual person.
 
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Ooh, this is an interesting question. I think when we use the word “soul” to describe an inanimate object, we’re hitting on a few points.

1. It’s got evidence of a human touch, either in the making (“craftsmanship”) or the design, or both. Design-wise, it may have details that are purely ornamental or beautiful, and not motivated solely by practicality or affordability.

2. It’s got evidence of human use. Battle scars. Patina. Stories associated with it. A gorgeous handmade rifle that’s sat in a case since new will not have as much soul as the same type of rifle that’s also been on two dozen hunts, or shows dings and bluing wear from facing the Soviets in ‘39.

3. It’s got a certain human interaction required of it. It’s a manually cycled action that requires a human touch to work the mechanism, or load the cartridges, or to keep the thing shooting by knowing the little tricks to operate the rifle with greatest effectiveness or keep it shooting in spite of fouling and other difficulties. (Consider a refrigerator. Because it’s for the most part completely automatic we don’t exactly consider it to have soul even if it’s elegant or from the finest factory.)

———-

In other words, the guns with “soul” are often objectively inferior because they are not as efficient, not as durable, cost more, and are in worse condition. But they’re often more satisfying for us to use or contemplate.
 
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Decent example I just thought of, I'm the 3rd or perhaps 4th owner of a Remington 870TB with that nice lacquered wood and blued finish, it cycles smoothly, has checkered wood, (pressed checkered, a TC would be a better example but I don't have one of those) and a qualified gunsmith/machinist put time and care into making sure the parts mated correctly and had a smooth action, VS. My Remington 870 express with parkerized finish that got slapped together with very loose tolerances and most likely a production line of dgac attitude temps vs qualified machinists of yesteryear.

I would say the TB has inherent soul, whereas my Express is basically just like any other, nothing to behold.....
 
When I hear the word “soul” my mind immediately goes to the biblical understanding of an eternal living soul that humans have.

I do understand when others use it in relation to firearms that they probably mean the gun has character or some design of historical significance/beauty/craftsmanship, etc.

So there ya go. That’s where my mind goes when I hear soul and that’s how I perceive it’s intended meaning when people apply the same word to firearms.
 
To me a gun never has “a soul” it’s a contraption of wood, metal, plastic, and maybe other things. Garands don’t go to heaven and K98s don’t go to hell when they’re melted down. Both most likely went on to make a new FAL after the war.

The question is, does it “have soul?” That’s an ability to emotionally connect to it in my view. Is it are excited about or proud of. Does it fit with who you are?

A gun doesn’t have to have souls to be good. A Glock 19, a 16” AR, and a Mossberg 88 don’t have soul to me. They’re all good tools and would serve anyone well, but once you’ve got the basics covered, they aren’t as exciting. Once security, hunting and training are covered, you’re looking for art and sentiment (or redundancy and incremental improvement).
 
mcb said:
Happy to hear what you think of when someone say a gun has "soul
Click to expand...
Around here that term generally means it has bacon grease in it, though not a term normally used on guns. Plain green beans- gross. Green beans with a little bacon and/or bacon grease cooked in them-soul food.

To the actual point of the post, I think that its more history than anything else. Grandpas gun has the family story or the family soul in it because that’s the gun that he killed such critter with, then dad killed such other critter, now I own it and I think of them, and someday my kids and grandkids will think of me when they hold this gun. I also think that there’s a certain familiarity factor too. Like a double barrel shotgun is kind of an antiquated design, but back in the day that was the only way to get a second shot, so that familiarity that reminds somebody of grandpas gun has a little bit of soul in it because of where it takes our mind for that brief journey.
 
.38 Special said, "I suspect that 'soul' is nearly synonymous with 'history'. "

True, but sometimes there's also a subtle feeling about an object. I hate to bring in another synonym, but it's also called a "vibe."

Some people "get" this, some don't. I have a pretty technical/scientific mind, but I get that feeling from some of my guns. I had an M1 Carbine I named "George" and only later realized it was an honorarium to Patton. I name other guns, too. I have a .380 I carried for a long time which I called "My W'il Fwend," loooong before the scene in Scarface (?) where he hollered down the stairs, "Say hello to my little friend" before blasting away with his gun.

I remember the custom in some western stories where they seemed to like calling their gun "Betsy." Do you remember that? Where did that come from? Where did the custom of naming ships arise... even unto today, where SSN-571 still has a sayable name? So does good ole BB-63,

I sometimes name knives and cars, too. It's just a feeling about a particular object which doesn't demand a name, but somehow suggests it. My second Audi was named Heinrich. My '97 Subaru's name was inevitable:, nothing "spooky" about it: Suzy Baru. Nyuck-nyuck-nyuck.

I know, I know, an object is just an object of steel, wood, plastic, whatever, so "how can it have... 'vibes' like that?"

Some just do. One of the demands of science is that things be seeable and testable by a cross section of observers in a cross section of laboratories and be repeatable and measurable. I'm all for that, "Yay!" for science!

But that same concept is one of the problems with science... it can't see what it can't see.

Terry, 230RN
 
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Some objects acquire significance by having layers of history on top of the metal. I have an old 94 that went through a lot of adventures with my favorite uncle. For me, 'soul' is a metaphor for this and it is a function of time and experience, so new objects just can't have it. But it is subjective and to anyone else it is just a beat-up old 30-30.
 
It's highly subjective so I would agree with the OP, any gun can have soul if it makes a connection to a person. It's certainly not limited to characteristics like wood, blueing, nickel or specific mechanical actions. Personally, I'd say my old Bushmaster 20" HBAR A2 has plenty- perhaps more than any of my other rifles since it most closely matches the rifles I shot in Basic Training. The highly mechanical reciprocating spring sound is intoxicating and the carbine length rifles just don't seem to have it.

The Mossberg .410 'tactical' shotgun I have is another matter, just to pick one at random. Bead sight, undrilled receiver and shoots about 3 feet high with slugs :( I suppose if I shot a kangaroo on a safari after drilling out the receiver and turning it into a flat top, I'd be bonding with it better.
 
230RN said:
.38 Special said, "I suspect that 'soul' is nearly synonymous with 'history'. "

True, but sometimes there's also a subtle feeling about an object. I hate to bring in another synonym, but it's also called a "vibe."

Some people "get" this, some don't. I have a pretty technical/scientific mind, but I get that feeling from some of my guns. I had an M1 Carbine I named "George" and only later realized it was an honorarium to Patton. I name other guns, too. I have a .380 I carried for a long time which I called "My W'il Fwend," loooong before the scene in Scarface (?) where he hollered down the stairs, "Say hello to my little friend" before blasting away with his gun.

I remember the custom in some western stories where they seemed to like calling their gun "Betsy." Do you remember that? Where did that come from? Where did the custom of naming ships arise... even unto today, where SSN-571 still has a sayable name? So does good ole BB-63,

I sometimes name knives and cars, too. It's just a feeling about a particular object which doesn't demand a name, but somehow suggests it. My second Audi was named Heinrich. My '97 Subaru's name was inevitable:, nothing "spooky" about it: Suzy Baru. Nyuck-nyuck-nyuck.

I know, I know, an object is just an object of steel, wood, plastic, whatever, so "how can it have... 'vibes' like that?"

Some just do. One of the demands of science is that things be seeable and testable by a cross section of observers in a cross section of laboratories and be repeatable and measurable. I'm all for that, "Yay!" for science!

But that same concept is one of the problems with science... it can't see what it can't see.

Terry, 230RN
Click to expand...

Science does, however, have a name for what you describe; the naming of inanimate objects and attributing human qualities to them: anthropomorphization.
 
everyone knows all guns are made of metals, plastics, and/or wood. Everyone one also know they are all just tools, but, I think most of us would agree some can be a literal work of art.
youtu.be

Gunmaking Craftsmanship - Holland & Holland

Filmed in the Holland & Holland factory, discover the key stages involved in crafting the world's finest sporting shotguns and rifles.Holland & Holland guns ...
youtu.be youtu.be

However, I think you could replace the term soul (in this particular context) with “tickles my fancy” …it is subjective and to some extent emotional.

A 1985 Honda Accord is a car, so is a Ferrari Enzo. Some would prefer one over the other for different reasons. But the chances that people with get attached to the Honda are fairly slim, the Enzo on the other hand…
 
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IMG_5602.jpeg
I nominate this sawed-off coach gun in the hands of Pam Grier featured in the movie Coffy, as having the most “Soul”.
This should certainly close the thread for what other firearm could possess more soul?
 
DeepSouth said:
everyone knows all guns are made of metals, plastics, and/or wood. Everyone one also know they are all just tools, but, I think most of us would agree some can be a literal work of art.
youtu.be

Gunmaking Craftsmanship - Holland & Holland

Filmed in the Holland & Holland factory, discover the key stages involved in crafting the world's finest sporting shotguns and rifles.Holland & Holland guns ...
youtu.be youtu.be

However, I think you could replace the term soul (in this particular context) with “tickles my fancy” …it is subjective and to some extent emotional.

A 1985 Honda Accord is a car, so is a Ferrari Enzo. Some would prefer one over the other for different reasons. But the chances that people with get attached to the Honda are fairly slim, the Enzo on the other hand…
Click to expand...
I would call that aesthetically pleasing rather than soul. High level of craftmanship, nice furniture, engraving, design symmetry, etc.
Many polymer guns aren't very aestheticaly pleasing, though that's my subjective assessment.
 
entropy said:
Science does, however, have a name for what you describe; the naming of inanimate objects and attributing human qualities to them: anthropomorphization.
Click to expand...
I think this is a big part of what bothers me about this idea of soul. As I mention in the first post I am an engineer by trade and in addition are pretty serious follower of space exploration. Recent space mission are rife with anthropomorphizing of robotic spacecraft in an attempt to draw the public in. On one hand I can appreciate the effort to bring the general public in on the various missions. On the other hand I utterly hate the anthropomorphizing of these systems. It takes away from the science and engineering that made them possible and the science they are endeavoring to do and just makes them into loveable characters that often skews the mission and its knowledge sharing.

Same with guns I guess. I have never named a gun or any piece of hardware. A finely crafted gun only has "soul" in the sense that is stands as a testament to he human that made it and their skills. In a similar manner with guns have have been well used and stand as a symbol of what someone has accomplished. I value the later a lot more than the former. I can appreciate the finely crafted tool but the engineer in me apricates a more functional approach and loves a tool worn ugly from use far more than a fancy pristine one. See my signature below.
 
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