What does it mean to say a gun has "soul"?

Ah, but "anthropormorphizing" and "tickling your fancy" are made up concepts to account for / describe the phenomenon.

Carts... horses....

Early this summer I noticed from my second floor bedroom window a squirrel and a magpie playing with each other. They were both young 'uns, judging by size and the shortness of the magpie's tail.

One would jump over the other, then the "other" would flap wings at the first, then peck at the ground. rinse, repeat, vary, pause to groom, resume.

It would be clear to any humanoid watching secretly that they were playing with each other. I went to get my camera to video the events, but by the time I set up the camera and got back, they had gone elsewhere.

Poof on the proof.

Playing? Anthropomorphization? Have you ever watched your dog playing with your cat? Ooops! No! They were practicing battle skills.

"Practicing battle skills?" Why, that would be anthropomorphizing the activity anyway!

Terry, 230RN
 
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^
"Anthropormorphizing another living creature is very different and a bit more understandable IMHO than doing the same to a nonliving thing."

Well, someone used it as an explanation of the phenomenon and I was trying to point out that it wasn't, but was merely a description of a mental process.

Try "spooky." Something's happening that "gives you the willies." But the "willies" is not the cause of the spookiness. I'm told that while walking near or in a graveyard on a moonless night, the cure for the "willies" is to whistle a tuneless tune.

But none of that explains the true cause.... or the cause of "feeling" that an object has or should have a name.

My favorite 1911 is named "Bruno," partly whimsical, partly because I "felt" it needed a name.

My M1 Carbine George agreed. <a joke, ok? :) >

What can I say?

I'm reminded of the Harley-Davidson meme: "If I have to explain it, you won't get it."

In fact, I wish I could explain it.

Terry, 230RN
 
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DustyGmt said:
not a finely crafted instrument of heirloom quality.
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Yes, and no--at least to my thinking & experience.

I know of a 30-40krag that looks like a platoon of Bubbas competed to make it uglier in sequential fashion. Yet, it very much has character, if as a river-bottom brush gun a person could take into any number of thickets and briar patches after a fat doe. Mind, the thing looks like what it is, a second-hand, pawn shop Estwing hammer that spent more time in the back of a pickup truck than for hammering up fences.

And I know of a fully custom Sako build, with elaborate, and high quality engraving and damasquene that is as soul-less as a Snap-on crescent wrench set.

That's why this is a hard-to-pin-down sort of thing. We know it when we see it.

And, "character" may be easier to pin down than "soul." Which may be confusing out discussion here. An FG-42 has character; so does an MG-42; an M-1 Garand as well. It's something you can spot at a distance. It might even make you want to pick one up (or to remember the feel of picking up one, if at a distance).

This can work in reverse, too. A legit 1928 Tommy gun has character, but any sense of "soul" can be lost by picking up that 13# monster (the semi-auto '28 with the over-long barrels sometimes fail that "character" test, too). But, an M3 Grease Gun, looks like a harsh piece of work, all metal and hard and unyielding. But, if you get to shoot one, as they were intended, they can have real 'soul' to them.

And, on that train of thought, the Sterling comes to my mind. It has character, and it has soul when used as intended (if rather a dull thing as a short barreled PCC for KD shooting).
 
Some guns feel like they have 'soul', which is different from a soul.
IMO, it comes down to handling. Whether mandate by design or manufacture, inherent in material, performed labor, or use.

A custom bolt rifle, in a hand-checkered, hand-rubbed stock, with carefully lapped-by-hand parts, polished and blued by a craftsman, and then buffed by hand? That has soul.
Especially if the work was all done by the user. It not only has soul, it feels somehow attuned to them.
If you pay someone to do it for you, it somehow has less soul because it was done for money instead of love, a number on an invoice. Or at best a love for the work and the craft, but not that particular gun and purpose. Any further 'soul' must be earned through use and care by the user.

An AR, which was handled only to move it from one machine to another--or possibly only onto the first machine, then off the last--and then with parts bolted on? No real soul.
No care had to go into it. It's a serial number, not an item to form some attachment, even affection, towards.

That same AR that someone has bought, used, now has some dings on the stock and finger marks worn into the handguard and pistol grip? It's been adjusted, parts fitted to the demands of a single long-term owner, has wear through use but not neglect? It's developed some soul.

It's a rare gun that has a 'soul'. Those are the ones with honest wear, that always seem to hit what the owner wants to without careful aim that would be required of one of even the same model, that may have their little quirks but always seem to function how the owner has grown to expect it to. The ones that work for them, because of particular angles or rhythms of working it inherent to that particular gun with that particular owner, that another user might not recreate.
It's a strange thing, because I believe neither in particular energies or the soul as an entity, and it's probably just a combination of familiarity, unique wear patterns, and possibly some superstition, but some things (guns, instruments, old tools, etc.) can just have a sort of feeling in it.
 
230RN said:
I'm reminded of the Harley-Davidson meme: "If I have to explain it, you won't get it."
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Well, yeah... the Jeep guys say that too, and many of us old 1911 dinosaurs have adopted that platitude as well.

Thing is, I think most folks who've been in the "gun culture" for more'n a minute understand the whole bit about a gun "with no soul" while it's probably mostly the younguns who came up in the day of poly-framed striker pistols and no long guns other that ARs, never discovered the pride of ownership that came with owning and shooting aesthetically pleasing, fine grained walnut and polished blue steel guns, that just can't get it.

In any event, we all overthink it. It's just a word; if it helps you communicate with a fellow firearm aficionado, great, if not not, hopefully they'll discover this thread.
 
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After reading the entire thread, I'm no closer to understanding what someone means when they say a gun has "soul." It's not a word I would use in the context. I have guns with character or history that appeal to me, or guns that demonstrate elegance in design that beautifully fulfill their purpose, and I like them very much ... but they don't have "soul."
 
I would prefer the term "character" over "soul". To me, soul implies an eternal god-like connection that she be restricted to use with people, whereas character connotes a condition of special favor attributing from the little things that make a firearm "special"....

A good example of a gun with character might be the WWII bolt used by your dad, or a lever action that reeks of Americana. A characterless, or soulless gun by this thread, might be another plastic stocked picatinny railed .30.06 that uses AR mags. Good stuff maybe, but more like eating a modern Big Mac than a real hamburger.
 
Hokkmike said:
Caliber wars were fun when I was younger.
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"Caliber war" is a nonsensical term that only exists on gun forums.
It is usually invoked when someone doesn't like a caliber discussion, I say, "32 acp is marginal for SD carry 9mm with a good HP at minimum" and if one dislikes my opinion they invoke claim of "caliber war" in a whiny attempt to stifle negative discussion about their marginal caliber.

If there ever was a "caliber war" 9mm won based on centerfire handgun & ammo sales; the "war" is over and we can now have caliber discussions.
5 shots is capacity deficient even if you don't fire any rounds 😁... Wait for it..... (snub carrier attempting to not have aneurism) .... "Capacity War"!!! 🤢
 
As previously mentioned, perhaps a better word would be character.

You can imagine a craftsman bent over a buffing wheel, trying for that highly polished surface, or a wood worker carving out a stock by hand and rubbing in a finish. Or the expert hand fitting a lock or trigger mechanism.

These exercises, as opposed to pulling a piece of plastic or aluminum out of a mold, or a CNC machine, are what might give a gun character.
 
mcb said:
I think this is a big part of what bothers me about this idea of soul. As I mention in the first post I am an engineer by trade and in addition are pretty serious follower of space exploration. Recent space mission are rife with anthropomorphizing of robotic spacecraft in an attempt to draw the public in. On one hand I can appreciate the effort to bring the general public in on the various missions. On the other hand I utterly hate the anthropomorphizing of these systems. It takes away from the science and engineering that made them possible and the science they are endeavoring to do and just makes them into loveable characters that often skews the mission and its knowledge sharing.

Same with guns I guess. I have never named a gun or any piece of hardware. A finely crafted gun only has "soul" in the sense that is stands as a testament to he human that made it and their skills. In a similar manner with guns have have been well used and stand as a symbol of what someone has accomplished. I value the later a lot more than the former. I can appreciate the finely crafted tool but the engineer in me apricates a more functional approach and loves a tool worn ugly from use far more than a fancy pristine one. See my signature below.
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It’s just a mechanism to describe what they feel. It is obvious that human beings can have visceral reactions to what they see. The shape of an object, its curve, its color or shade, proportion, symmetry, or similarity to something liked or love. For what ever biological reason, people see beauty in things and are often compelled to share their feelings.
Changes in what they see can also evoke negative reactions.

Everyone has different degrees of reaction since no two human beings are completely alike, even identical twins.
We will never fully understand this process in our minds. The trick is to learn to appreciate or even partially experience someone’s emotional reaction, as well as appreciate and learn from another person’s more analytical reaction.

I appreciate the engineering side of human beings, their ideas brought to life through physics and chemistry have helped to tame a brutal world that works against human comfort and survival.

I will leave you with something to ponder: so many scientific advances have come from thoughts out-of-the-blue, the solution just dawns on them, everything just clicks together in their mind, through imagination it just pops into their consciousness. Perhaps logic and analysis is just a reaction that compels them to understand the beauty of the physical world they experience around them.

Wait this a forum about firearms; so I love to see polished stainless steel revolvers, they are so “purdy”.
 
Seems to me most who talk about guns with "souls" refer to guns made of steel and wood.

To me, a gun is a tool. Some tools are really nice looking, really nicely made, or have good history. But they are still tools.

So I don't perscribe to one gun having a "soul" and one other gun not having one.
 
CDW4ME said:
"Caliber war" is a nonsensical term that only exists on gun forums.
It is usually invoked when someone doesn't like a caliber discussion, I say, "32 acp is marginal for SD carry 9mm with a good HP at minimum" and if one dislikes my opinion they invoke claim of "caliber war" in a whiny attempt to stifle negative discussion about their marginal caliber.

If there ever was a "caliber war" 9mm won based on centerfire handgun & ammo sales; the "war" is over and we can now have caliber discussions.
5 shots is capacity deficient even if you don't fire any rounds 😁... Wait for it..... (snub carrier attempting to not have aneurism) .... "Capacity War"!!! 🤢
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I always thought the caliber war concerned is A better than B or vice-a-verse. A friendly discussion of choice usually occurring when deciding what gun to buy. Extreme posts usually put up by the the highly educated novice hunter who is so sure of himself or the old veteran who has used the "thutty thutty" all his life.
 
P89DCSS said:
I've been told over and over that Ruger revolvers have "no soul" and S&W revolver "have soul".
By deduction I've concluded "having soul" means shooting loose when spicy rounds are used.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:
LOL! Trust me, Ruger revolvers will shoot loose too if enough "spicy rounds" are used in them.
Back in the '80s during my wife's and my IHMSA days, my wife had two, identical looking Ruger Super "Silhouette" (10.5" Super Blackhawk) 44 Mag revolvers. The reason she had two of them was so that she could keep going to matches when one or the other of her Ruger Super Silhouette revolvers was back at the factory for a "tune up" after my wife had run 3 or 4 thousand "spicy rounds" through it.
BTW, my wife still has one of her two Ruger Super Silhouettes. When we retired from IHMSA shooting, she sold one of her revolvers to a friend, and sent the other back to Ruger for re-bluing and a shorter "more practical" (as she says) 6" barrel. "Practical" or not, I doubt she's ran more than a dozen rounds through that gun in the last 30 years. It's just kind of a "keepsake" now - like the trophies she won with it that are on a shelf in a spare room in the basement. Or maybe like the arthritis in her right thumb joint that no doubt is the result of the thousands of "spicy" 44 Magnum rounds my wife ran through that and her other Ruger Super Silhouette. ;)
 
To me, the gun itself doesn’t have soul.

Its the way I feel when I see, hold, shoot a gun that defines the gun’s “soul” to me.

I really appreciate a once-living piece of wood that was cut, shaped, inletted, checkered and finished. Worn or pristine, there is a sense of nostalgia with walnut, maple and other dense old-time stock woods. (The metal can be blued, stainless or otherwise finished, though I do prefer a deep gloss bluing. :D )

I guess I just get more of a sense of connection to a gun that brings me back to the wooden-stocked guns of my youth…over a stock (or grips) made from an injected blend of chemicals mixed together. (Even though synthetics are more durable, lighter weight, stronger and often better handling recoil.)

YMMV. :thumbup:

Merry Christmas, and a happy and healthy 2024 to you all. 🙏

Stay safe.
 
"Soul"?
"Character"?


What we need is to have a mod close this thread and someone start a thread "What guns have panache ?" or even extra stupider....."What guns have voluptuousness ?"
 
In my humble opinion it stems from some human interaction, somewhat like the saying "You put your heart and soul in that"
I've told the story before but I was pheasant hunting with my grandfather's M10 Remington when I missed a somewhat difficult but makeable crossing shot, the gruff laughter that I swear I heard behind me (nobody was there) definitely makes me believe there's a soul that lives on and can certainly be carried in an object.
 
mcb said:
Anthropormorphizing another living creature is very different and a bit more understandable IMHO than doing the same to a nonliving thing.
Click to expand...

I can take it a step further. I realize people name cars, bikes, and even guns. I don't, well, other than "the yellow Toyota" or more affectionally, "the FJ." I just can't see naming things. Frankly, it seems too close to "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" for me. Names are reserved for things God has made; however, I do realize it gets very grey around the edges (e.g. a man-made lake, or a dog of a breed that requires human intervention, I still name them but I do recognize the cognitive hoop-jumping).
 
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